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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 8:40:16 GMT -5
I do think that vaccination is something that should be continually re-evaluated. They started giving the Hep B vaccine when my kids were born. I went along with my Pediatrician's recommendations. But, after doing so, i really think that giving that to newborns, why? In case they have unprotected sex when they are teens? I don't understand the need to ramrod infants with vaccines? Is it because parents are so fearful of their 5 yr old getting a shot? Is it really that hard to teach our kids that getting a shot isn't like the worst thing that ever happened to them? Yeah, it isn't fun. But, my DD does get a flu shot because she has asthma and seems to me more prone to that type of thing. And, nobody in our family has asthma so i wonder if the vaccines somehow triggered that as well.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 8:42:52 GMT -5
really think that giving that to newborns, why? In case they have unprotected sex when they are teens?
Hepatitis B can be passed from mother to child. Most people are asymtomatic for Hep B for a very long period of time so you can have it, not know it and then in turn pass it onto your child.
That's why they are vaccinated soon after birth, not because some doctor imagines newborns having unprotected nookie.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 8:44:11 GMT -5
I was vaccinated myself against Hep B. And, from what i understand, i thought they were no longer giving it newborns? Or, am i thinking of something else?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 8:50:59 GMT -5
They still give it the hospital but I think that in the majority of cases you can refuse. It depends on the state I think.
In Nebraska I could refuse to have it given to her at the hospitla but I decided to go ahead and consent. It was a PITA for me to get the stupid Hep A/B vaccinations done at a later date as an adult when I needed them to travel and I have to have them to be able to work where I work.
She'll probably need them at some point in her life so I figured might as well get them out of the way now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 8:56:16 GMT -5
Routine screening for pregnant women catches those who might be asymtomatic, and those infants can be given the vaccine, without a universal infant vaccination program... again, before the universal program was instituted, .5 - 1.5 per 100,000 kids age 0-14 were infected. This was NOT an epidemic.
Mich was clear that a purpose of giving it to newborns is to ensure that they have it when they might need it, ie. after age 14.
Hep B is currently routinely given to newborns before they go home from the hospital.
You can refuse. You have that right.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 9:00:16 GMT -5
You can refuse it if you are that adamant against it. I had to sign a form stating I had given the hospital the OK to give the Hep B vaccination to my kid. If I hadn't, she would have left without it.
I would have still ended up having to do it though because it's part of the immunizations required for daycare and school under Iowa law. Iowa just passed a law saying tough shit if you don't want to vaccinate, your kid isn't coming to our public schools without them.
Good for Iowa, IMHO. So at some point she'll need it. I'd rather have it done when she's at the hospital and I have a bazillion WBVs rather than have to cram a three shot cycle into three separate appointments like I had to.
In reality technically it's never too late to vaccinate, you can always go back and get them as an adult if your parents refuse to let you get them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 9:11:36 GMT -5
You can refuse it if you are that adamant against it. I had to sign a form stating I had given the hospital the OK to give the Hep B vaccination to my kid. If I hadn't, she would have left without it. I would have still ended up having to do it though because it's part of the immunizations required for daycare and school under Iowa law. Iowa just passed a law saying tough shit if you don't want to vaccinate, your kid isn't coming to our public schools without them. Good for Iowa, IMHO. So at some point she'll need it. I'd rather have it done when she's at the hospital and I have a bazillion WBVs rather than have to cram a three shot cycle into three separate appointments like I had to. In reality technically it's never too late to vaccinate, you can always go back and get them as an adult if your parents refuse to let you get them. what if it's medically indicated that you shouldn't have a particular vaccine? are those parents just out of luck and have to make the choice to either quit their job and stay home with their kid or take a chance and vaccinate their kid knowing there's a high risk of injury or death?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 1, 2012 9:27:16 GMT -5
I am on my 4th day of being home with what was diagnosed as Influenza A. About Tuesday, I thought I was going to die and I didn't care if I did. I don't believe I have ever been this sick. Get your shot and get your kids their shots. I had an appointment to get my shot yesterday. I waited too long. We got them at Walgreens last year. My husband had a client a few years ago that lost a child to swine flu. I told DH he did not have time to get sick and the flu shot was a small price to pay for a little insurance.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Oct 1, 2012 9:30:38 GMT -5
My mom taught for over 40 years and didn't get a single flu shot. She caught the flu, for the first time ever, the year she retired. Ha! I do not get the flu shot, because I'm a slacker. I also like getting sick occasionally so I can get a vacation
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 9:33:56 GMT -5
are those parents just out of luck and have to make the choice to either quit their job and stay home with their kid or take a chance and vaccinate their kid knowing there's a high risk of injury or death?
Well I haven't read the entire law because my kid is not school age. I'd assume there is an exception for medical as long as it is documented.
What I believe the law is doing is saying there are no exceptions for religious and "I don't wanna". There aren't going to be personal exceptions allowed.
I don't know if Iowa ever allowed religious exceptions to be honest, though many other states do. Some states allow you to not have your kids vaccinated for any reason you desire.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 1, 2012 9:41:15 GMT -5
Are you saying that titers are not used to test the efficacy of Hep B vaccinations, and/or to determine the need for a booster immunization? Yes, there is an outbreak of pertussis, so we must administer tetnus... sigh, am i the only one to whom this stuff sounds crazy... You know most of the kids getting whopping cough actually WERE vaccinated against it... No, titers are used to determine whether or not the immune system has seen the antigen. It is a picture, albeit a small picture as to what comprises the immune reaction. Titers also form from natural exposure, but like I said, it does not tell the effectiveness of the antibody, just that there is one. Some people cannot do this.....
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 1, 2012 9:45:05 GMT -5
My mom taught for over 40 years and didn't get a single flu shot. She caught the flu, for the first time ever, the year she retired. Ha! I do not get the flu shot, because I'm a slacker. I also like getting sick occasionally so I can get a vacation I'll take going to work over getting the flu any day. The one and only time I caught the flu, I thought I was going to die.....and wanted to. I work in a medical center and get them yearly.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Oct 1, 2012 9:47:30 GMT -5
The misery part is no fun, but avoiding chores and getting waited on is kinda nice ;D
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 9:52:42 GMT -5
The misery part is no fun, but avoiding chores and getting waited on is kinda nice Lucky. My DH has to be the unhealthiest man I've ever met. If I get something, he ends up catching it and having it 20 times worse. Then the kid gets sick. We're all sick but somehow I still end up being hte "heathliest" one of the bunch. I'd love to get sick and be waited on hand and foot. I should have tried harder to get sick before I was married and had a kid. I missed out on being pampered.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 1, 2012 12:21:15 GMT -5
I don't know of Andrew Wakefield and don't feel like looking it up now, but based solely on your statements, I do not support his practices or believe his claims. But you also must realize that much of pharma's research is also poorly constructed, intentionally biased and misused. I can't believe you honestly think its impossible to be an informed consumer unless you have an education/experiential background in every specialty ... I find that beyond scary... You don't know who Andrew Wakefield is?? That's like saying you follow politics but you don't know who Clinton is.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Oct 1, 2012 12:24:25 GMT -5
I am the least healthy, so usually I'm the only one who gets sick! Dark and the girls have super immune systems. I hate them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 13:13:20 GMT -5
I don't know of Andrew Wakefield and don't feel like looking it up now, but based solely on your statements, I do not support his practices or believe his claims. But you also must realize that much of pharma's research is also poorly constructed, intentionally biased and misused. I can't believe you honestly think its impossible to be an informed consumer unless you have an education/experiential background in every specialty ... I find that beyond scary... You don't know who Andrew Wakefield is?? That's like saying you follow politics but you don't know who Clinton is. Closer to Nixon, I'd say.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 13:34:03 GMT -5
But you also must realize that much of pharma's research is also poorly constructed, intentionally biased and misusedNothing like finding out your work is meaningless and you are involved in a giant conspiracy to fraud the American public. I've seen the light! Did it ever once occur to you that your "trusted" sources against vaccinations also have an agenda they are trying to push that would benefit greatfly from intentionally biased, misused and poorly constructed information? I really encourage you to look up Wakefield since he is one of the pioneers of the field that you consider in such high regard.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 13:53:07 GMT -5
One of the reasons I really liked the Panic Virus is because it focused on how people come to believe something and the role all the information we have access to plays in the belief process. Confirmation bias is incredibly powerful. He also had lucid, easy to understand explanations of the different types of scientific trials that are run, how scientists weight evidence, and why you can't prove conclusively that a vaccine won't hurt someone. He's very compassionate about parent's fears. Every instinct in me screams that injecting my kid with a virus to protect from viruses is absolutely nuts. I did a lot of reading about vaccines when I was pregnant, and afterwards. I even had the Vaccine book on my shelf and read it. The problem is it would be easy to confirm my instincts by reading pseudo-scientific stuff all over the internet when the truth is not so sexy or compelling - that vaccines can hurt some people. Diseases hurt even more people. Herd immunity is diminishing.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 14:00:25 GMT -5
I talked to my grandmother about this once and she said if you had ever seen a child die of pertussis or your friend end up in an iron lung, the risks associated with getting vaccinations would be moot to you. She vaccinated my dad in a heartbeat for polio and would do it again.
Not saying that you should not be involved and ask questions. However the internet seems to have made people think they are experts in everything and apparently schools are doing a horrible job of teaching how to validate a source and confirm it is reliable.
Just because source X says something you don't agree with doesnt' automatically mean source Y is some altrusic source that is determined to share the truth with the world. Source Y can have its own biases, agendas that fuel it's research and results.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 1, 2012 14:09:47 GMT -5
But it's on the interwebz, so it must be true!!!!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 14:13:10 GMT -5
::pats head:: That's right dear. Now go on your date with the french supermodel.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 14:19:02 GMT -5
I talked to my grandmother about this once and she said if you had ever seen a child die of pertussis or your friend end up in an iron lung, the risks associated with getting vaccinations would be moot to you. She vaccinated my dad in a heartbeat for polio and would do it again. Not saying that you should not be involved and ask questions. However the internet seems to have made people think they are experts in everything and apparently schools are doing a horrible job of teaching how to validate a source and confirm it is reliable. Just because source X says something you don't agree with doesnt' automatically mean source Y is some altrusic source that is determined to share the truth with the world. Source Y can have its own biases, agendas that fuel it's research and results. are you claiming that in every single case the risk of not vaccinating outweighs the risk of vaccinating? and that any parent who doesn't give a particular vaccination is just too stupid to understand the real risk and can't weigh risk versus benefit?
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Oct 1, 2012 14:19:42 GMT -5
I get a flu shot every year. Other than some vaccine reaction (fever and a tad achy @ the injection site), I have yet to get the flu. I still get colds though and sometimes a tummy bug (but that's not really the flu). We have an appointment for all of us to get our shots on the 29th.
I do wonder though - do the vaccines protect you from that strain of the flu forever? I know its constantly mutating and changing, but I was curious to see if the immunity against those certain types lasted.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 14:23:52 GMT -5
No, I never even considered evaluating a source for bias... WTF? just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a moron... Probably one of the reasons Wakefield is not on my radar is because he was before I vaccines were on my radar and by the time I was looking at it, it was obvious he was not someone i'd consider a credible source.
It is not a crazy position to question medication research and protocols... And the more you try to make it sound like it is, the more I question.
I've had some inside track on pharma, pharma research and marketing practices for awhile now, and yes, it is highly problematic, and you don't have to take my word for it, and if you feel there is no problem with the process as it exists, then perhaps you aren't looking at it objectively.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 14:25:37 GMT -5
I didn't use 'internet' sources... I used published, peer reviewed studies, congressional testimony and CDC stats... Yes. You can access them through the Internet.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 14:39:05 GMT -5
I used published, peer reviewed studies, congressional testimony Unfortunately that doesn't mean much these days. Lots of pseudo-scientific groups have glommed onto the idea of publishing and peer reviewing. But if the quality of the peers is low, and experts in the field would never read your journal, it doesn't stand out as a good source of information. Then there is David Geier, who was well compensated to provide expert testimony in a number of vaccine related trials. Googling him is fun. Medical license and journal articles were revoked for a number of reasons.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 1, 2012 14:40:19 GMT -5
Right. Once you die from the flu, you won't need flu shots any more. Welts have you ever wondered why we as a society are now plagued with more autoimmune diseases than ever before in history? Think about it the next time you're slamming a hundred little kids with that crap. You know, the ones who have no say in the matter of what goes into their bodies. Up to 23.5 million Americans suffer from autoimmune disease (AD), one of the leading causes of death for women under age 65. In developed countries around the world, 5 to 7 percent of the population is affected—and rates are soaring, an expert panel reported at the “Global State of Autoimmunity” briefing for international health ministers hosted by the United Nations’ NGO Health Committee and the American Autoimmune Related Disease Association (AAARD) on September 25th of this year.“Autoimmune diseases generally involve difficulties with the immune system turning itself off, so any stimulation of the immune system can sometimes lead to a flare of disease. Vaccines may cause transient flares of disease in some patients,” says immunologist Julian Ambrus, MD, an associate professor of medicine at Buffalo General Hospital in New York." www.everydayhealth.com/autoimmune-disorders/can-vaccines-cause-autoimmune-disorders.aspxTo add to what Weltz said, it probably also has something to do with back then doctors didn't know/couldn't diagnose autoimmune diseases and certainly couldn't treat it so people just DIED from it. I have pernicious anemia. If I had been born before 1950 I would (not could) have died from it because they lacked the technology to realize it was all caused by a lack of B12. Yet my death certificates would have probably had some benign cold as the cause since getting endlessly sick was what diagnosed me.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2012 14:40:21 GMT -5
I never even considered evaluating a source for bias... WTF?
I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is a moron.
I take issue with the fact that it seems like in most cases, especially with vaccination that people seem to think that one side is a giant conspiracy riddled money scheming evil corporation while the other side is only interested in sharing the truth.
When in truth the other side has just as much interest in pushing an agenda as anyone else.
It happens all the time. Research is done by human beings and human beings are falliable. The name of the game is to get money and there will always be people who will falsify/twist to get published and get the money.
The anti-vaccination crowd has just as much interest in getting you NOT to vaccinate as the vaccination crowd has to get you to vaccinate.
You have to evaluate where a source comes from and who because you never know.
Peer review is good but it isn't perfect. Wakefield got published back in 1985 despite his extremely shoddy research and he recieved millions of dollars in research money.
Despite the fact that one of his biggest supporters was a staunch "vaccination causes autism crowd" that was making millions off the lawsuits brought by innocent unaware families.
He has a vested interest in making sure his research lined up.
Nobody knew that until later. Even if he was the most altruistic person on the planet, the moment he accepted those funds his research becomes suspect.
I can't wait to spit on his grave because the damage him and the movement his research created will take decades to unravel.
I don't think "my side" is perfect but I also don't trust the other side as far as I can throw it either.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 14:47:37 GMT -5
One of the saddest things about the vaccine/autism connection debacle is that it wasted millions of valuable dollars that could have been used to help children.
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