Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 22:15:32 GMT -5
ok I just checked in the mirror and I am indeed black.
I can't fall asleep so have CNN on and they were discussing the first lady address at the Black Caucus dinner last night and it was in regards to showing ID to vote.
So one of the guests stated it was "racist" to require such and another said it was an attempt to keep the middle class/lower class to cast their vote.
Do they realize that by trying to defend those people (minorities/low income etc) they are actually offending them? Look I service the minorities and low/income every day at work so here is a bit of refresher: - to buy alcohol you need a state issued ID - to buy cigarettes (if you look young enough) you need a state issued ID - to cash your check, you need to have a state issued ID - to receive a money transfer you need an ID - to apply for a customer card/advantage card, you need a Driver's license - to process your WIC check, we need to see ID - your EBT card is in itself an ID since it has your picture, name and date of birth (no not an acceptable ID to purchase alcohol/cigarettes) - to get hired, we need to see ID (school ID is fine for minors)
So everyday in my store, black/Hispanic/low income and middle class folks have to show ID in one form or another. So getting on national television stating that requiring to do so to vote is racist or an attack on the middle class/low income is an insult to us.
Heck, I had to show ID for a freaking $2 return at Home Depot. $2 and I did not have a receipt and they needed to see ID and it would be too much to ask me to do it to vote for the next president of the United States of America?
Seriously? I get some of the arguments, fundamental rights etc but I call bull on the racist/low income excuse because I feel it insults us more than help us.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Sept 23, 2012 22:18:49 GMT -5
...yes... and it smarts... :-\
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Sept 23, 2012 22:23:56 GMT -5
My personal theory is that they don't want anyone voting who doesn't drink ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 22:26:14 GMT -5
Be offended all you want, but A 2006 nationwide study of voting-age citizens by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law found that African-Americans are more than three times as likely as Caucasians to lack a government-issued photo ID, with one in four African-Americans owning no such ID. There are several other studies with similar results at the link below. www.lawyerscommittee.org/admin/voting_rights/documents/files/Voter-ID-Talking-Points-for-web.pdf
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 23, 2012 22:34:02 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand - black people lack ID's so asking them for one when they want to vote is racist?
Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 22:38:07 GMT -5
Oh. I'm not a big fan of using the racist word. But to suggest there is not a racial component to ID laws, when minorities possess IDs at such a measurably lower rate than Caucasians.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 23, 2012 22:47:16 GMT -5
I would actually think that low income people would have ID's - don't check cashing places require them, for example?
In any case, I just don't see how asking for ID for voting is racist at all
Lena
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 22:52:27 GMT -5
I think Voter ID laws are ok, so long as 1) IDs are free (and you have to consider the documenation fees involved in procuring one, not just the fee for the ID) and 2) there is ample time to implement them (ie. not for this election.... If they wanted it in place for this election, they should have started 2-3 years ago... think passports for Canada...)
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 24, 2012 0:28:45 GMT -5
"Oh. I'm not a big fan of using the racist word. But to suggest there is not a racial component to ID laws, when minorities possess IDs at such a measurably lower rate than Caucasians."
This could easily be fixed with low/no cost ID's.
And as to the OP, yes, it's a shame how low expectations politicans have of minorities. It almost becomes as if you think minorities are smart and capable of even simple tasks (like getting an ID), you must be racist. It is ironic isn't it?
Personally I prefer to think of minorities (like all people) as capable and intellegent, and would prefer politicans pass laws that counted on personal responsibility. But that seems to be a dirty word these days....
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 24, 2012 0:32:02 GMT -5
I think Voter ID laws are ok, so long as 1) IDs are free (and you have to consider the documenation fees involved in procuring one, not just the fee for the ID) and 2) there is ample time to implement them (ie. not for this election.... If they wanted it in place for this election, they should have started 2-3 years ago... think passports for Canada...) I agree Oped, Voter ID laws are a great idea, and I hate it that they aren't taking the time to impelment them properly.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 24, 2012 7:58:07 GMT -5
Carl, do your stores care about address verification? Because I think that's a component of the problem with voter IDs. If you move frequently, do you have a proper ID with the correct address on it? It was a problem when I worked for the Library - we required 2 forms of ID to issue a Library card - 1 with current name and address. The address part drove people nuts even though we'd accept mail delivered in the last 30 days.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Sept 24, 2012 7:58:20 GMT -5
I received a mailing from the VA Board of Elections Saturday that was a reminder about the new ID requirements this year. Surprising to me was that my voter registration card is considered a valid form of ID and the mailing included an updated card.
There has been a notice that we needed to provide our voter registration card or valid ID if asked at every polling place I've been assigned to the last 10 years but I've never been asked to show it. I'm always prepared and keep my voter registration card in my wallet because it can often be used for other ID purposes if I needed.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Sept 24, 2012 8:01:51 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand - black people lack ID's so asking them for one when they want to vote is racist? Lena Yes -- and the bleeding hearts will be here any minute to tell you how horribly racist it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 8:04:35 GMT -5
I couldn't tell you if i ever had a voter registration card ?
Another issue is absentee balloting. If you can't require an ID for that purpose? Then what happens?
Honestly. I don't think we NEED ID laws. I just am not going to argue so long as it is free and implemented correctly. Didn't want to give the impression I was for them, just that I am neutral on the issue if it is carried out appropriately . Considering the number of people who actually manage to vote illegally, it is one of those things that does not require more bureaucracy to 'fix'...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 8:07:11 GMT -5
You can't ignore the fact that minorities will be impacted by this law to a significantly greater degree. There is a racial component. I mean, have you heard comments like Turzai's ? Its not like everyone is even trying to hide it...
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 24, 2012 9:02:43 GMT -5
How so???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 9:06:17 GMT -5
Read my post #3... and follow the link. Minorities lack current photo ID at greater rates than Caucasians.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 24, 2012 9:14:17 GMT -5
You can't ignore the fact that minorities will be impacted by this law to a significantly greater degree. There is a racial component. I mean, have you heard comments like Turzai's ? Its not like everyone is even trying to hide it... From what I read the problem is more about where poeple live than their race although normally they know based on the address what people live there. People who live in urban areas tend to have less income and access to transportation. Most of the voter ID places aren't in urban areas so would require them to get there with the correct documentation to get the ID. How many people here have actually used public transportation? To get to the bus hub, that is 7 miles away, would take me about an hour by bus. From there I could get another bus to go to the DMV. that would take about another 2 hours. Skipping how much the id or the bus fares would cost, that is a whole day just to get there and back. Most poeple cant afford to just ditch work to spend the day going to DMV to get an id. The other part of this that I disagree with is comparing it to buying booze or getting a lisence to drive a car. Neither of those things is a right in the constitution and voting is. It should be hard to just deny someone their right to vote.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 24, 2012 9:27:03 GMT -5
Again, just bc they do, it's not racist to ask them for one. It's not like they are lacking IDs simply bc they ARE of a certain race. They lack IDs bc they didn't get one for whatever reason.
Lena
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kittypuppymom
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Post by kittypuppymom on Sept 24, 2012 9:32:13 GMT -5
I agree with caiwu. To be drawing any kind of government assistance you have to have a id. So saying that its a inconvience or a hardship is a bunch of crap. You go to a doctors office you have show id now. You cash a check you have to show id. Your not denying anyone the right to vote. They just have to follow the law of the land. If the law of the land says you need id then you have id.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 9:39:29 GMT -5
Carl, do your stores care about address verification? Because I think that's a component of the problem with voter IDs. If you move frequently, do you have a proper ID with the correct address on it? It was a problem when I worked for the Library - we required 2 forms of ID to issue a Library card - 1 with current name and address. The address part drove people nuts even though we'd accept mail delivered in the last 30 days. I agree with the concern that these policies are racist - I think they are discriminatory against people who move a lot. So, younger adults and low-income adults. (People forget that while poverty is more prevalent among people of color, the majority of poor people in this country are white) When I was a college student, I moved every year. My driver's license listed my mom's address, but I lived in another city and was able to vote in that city. Now, my polling place is a retirement home. If Grandma can't drive anymore, why would she go down to the DMV to get her license updated? If she has photo ID that proves who she is, or the staff at the polling place actually know her personally, why does it matter if she has a state-issued ID to reflect her current address? It's not an insurmountable burden, but it is a burden. And it is a burden which disproportionately impacts people who vote a certain way. And it is a burden created to solve a problem that no one has been able to prove actually exists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 9:44:57 GMT -5
Also the elderly. And urban poor. And it doesn't take just one trip to the DMV here (which is open only odd hours on odd days...) It takes a at least two. Because you have to go and take your documentation, and then wait up to 10 days so they can verify your info, and then make a return trip. It isn't something they should have tried to do a few months before an election. Unless it was meant to keep people from voting. Also, I think its funny to waste so much money and add beurocracy in a way that is not going to fix any problem. .... I thought the people advocating this were for less government ? And National ID cards ...
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 24, 2012 9:47:24 GMT -5
OK, I have to stop reading this thread before my head explodes. Asking people to get ID's is discriminatory?? It's a burden??? I really can't say what I am thinking, bc I still like to visit this forum from time to time......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 9:48:15 GMT -5
I read a very good opinion piece the other day by a ex-republican, one of the things noted was how far removed he had been from the way the poor actually lived. It was bookmarked on a PM thread, will see if i can find it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 9:50:26 GMT -5
Lena. If it is a policy that will impact certain populations to a greater degree than others, then, unless we also implement prgrams to mitigate the discpepancy, it is discriminatory.
What do you say regading the R politicians who say outright that the voter ID law will GIVE Romney the election?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 24, 2012 10:00:16 GMT -5
"Neither of those things is a right in the constitution and voting is."
Actually we had a thread on this a while back (on P&M I think). The right to vote technically isn't in the constitution.
"the other part of this that I disagree with is comparing it to buying booze or getting a license to drive a car."
It's not just for that, you need it to board an airplane, access your bank account, or even just buy children's cough syrup.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 24, 2012 10:05:06 GMT -5
There's very little burden to change your address on your ID card, at least in my state. When I moved it took 5 mins online to type in my new address and my new DL showed up in the mail about two weeks later. It cost the same as if I had walked into a DMV but less the time/gas.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 24, 2012 10:05:24 GMT -5
"OK, I have to stop reading this thread before my head explodes. Asking people to get ID's is discriminatory?? It's a burden??? I really can't say what I am thinking, bc I still like to visit this forum from time to time......"
I understand how you feel Leena. I wouldn't let it get to you. It's a common tactic of the democrats to cry racist at anyone/any policy they don't agree with. To be honest, it's a term that's way overused to the point it's lost it's sting. I even get called racist for daring to question Michelle Obama on something she said in her own words.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 10:09:44 GMT -5
People do not all ride in planes or have bank accounts. I have never had to show id for cough syrup, but i'm guessing there are also people who don't buy it.
The fact is there ARE people who lack ID... and of that population, more are minority than caucasian.
The constitution is clear on who has a right to vote ... I suggest you read the 15th, 19th, 26th and especially 24th ammendments...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 10:13:15 GMT -5
dis·crim·i·na·to·ry/disˈkrimənəˌtôrē/ Adjective: Making or showing an unfair or prejudicial distinction between different categories of people or things If a policy unfairly impacts a specific subset of people (ie. the voting ID law as proposed makes it more difficult for mintories to vote in the coming election) , then how can it NOT be discriminatory?
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