midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 24, 2012 11:57:23 GMT -5
Aren't you comparing apples and oranges there? Shouldn't you be comparing the 75% of potential minority voters who have government ID to the percentage of ALL minority voters who voted in the 2008 elections? Using black voters kind of skews the data, since you just posted that they turned out at nearly the same rate as white voters.
It's fine to focus on only black voters, but for consistency's sake you should at least use the number of potential black voters with government ID. Otherwise it looks like you're cherrypicking data to support your theory.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Sept 24, 2012 12:11:42 GMT -5
Aren't you comparing apples and oranges there? Shouldn't you be comparing the 75% of potential minority voters who have government ID to the percentage of ALL minority voters who voted in the 2008 elections? Should I be comparing the 75% to the percentage of potential minority voters who actually voted during the 2008 elections? Yes, that would be the most accurate way to approach the question. However, I was not able to locate statistics including all minority groups with a quick internet search. In order to avoid turning this into a doctoral dissertation project, I used the fragmented information I could readily locate and selected the minority group with the highest voter participation rate. (About 50% of eligible Hispanic voters participated and about 47% of eligible Asian-American voters participated.) By using the minority group with the highest participation rate, I felt my analysis was skewed toward indicating that requiring voters to present a government issued ID was an obstacle to minority voting, when requiring an ID really was not an issue, than if I would have been able to base my analysis on the total population of eligible minority voters. Using the total minority population would have shown that access to the appropriate ID is even less of an obstacle to minority voter participation than the analysis that I did indicates.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 13:42:23 GMT -5
Pretty much every single person I know is poor. They all make less than 50k per year. LOTS less. And every single one of them have a state ID. Even the ones who live on disability at $850/month. You do realize that $50,000 per year isn't poor, right? For a single adult in the continental U.S., $50,000 is actually four and a half times the federal definition of poverty.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2012 14:12:40 GMT -5
I thought this was the best line from that article Lena, Decades of study have found virtually no use of false identification in U.S. elections or voting by non-citizens.I ran across this article this afternoon: Here in CO, there are 3.5 million voters, and the issue that is being used to create all this ruckus might involve .004% or as little as 35 of 3.5 million people. Maybe less. news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.htmlAfter his office sent letters to 3,903 registered voters questioning their status, the number of noncitizens now stands at 141, based on checks using a federal immigration database. Of those 141, Gessler said 35 have voted in the past. The 141 are .004 percent of the state's nearly 3.5 million voters.
Even those numbers could be fewer.
The Denver clerk and recorder's office, which had records on eight of the 35 voters who cast ballots in the past, did its own verification and found that those eight people appear to be citizens.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2012 14:19:50 GMT -5
I am not saying that voting should required an ID, although, I don't see anything wrong with requiring proof of citizenship to vote. I am saying that asking for one is not discriminatory. In other words, yes, may be there is no fraud, but who cares?? If we are saying only citizens over certain age can vote, it's not discriminatory to ask people to prove that. Lena Why create a new set of rules that will cost money during a down economy, may be burdensome or disenfranchising to a significant portion of the citizenry, and create more red tape, to solve a problem that does not exist?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Sept 24, 2012 14:20:57 GMT -5
They are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Going to cost us millions and millions to "fix" a problem that isn't even all that broken to begin with. I have seen those numbers before. Like Rocky Mtn quoted with Colorado, the numbers are similar for Minnesota too and we apparently had one of the highest instances of voter fraud and it's still a very, tiny percentage of the voters.
John Stewart had a segment on one night about this (yes I watch John Stewart, no I don't get all of my news from him) and his stats said something like 10 people. When they tracked it down and researched it when it first popped up it was (his researchers claim) something like 10 instances of flat out voter fraud. So yeah- millions upon millions of people voting for 10 instances of voter fraud that they could solve by requiring an ID card? Seems like a whole lot of hype and manufactured drama for nothing.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Sept 24, 2012 14:21:39 GMT -5
I am not saying that voting should required an ID, although, I don't see anything wrong with requiring proof of citizenship to vote. I am saying that asking for one is not discriminatory. In other words, yes, may be there is no fraud, but who cares?? If we are saying only citizens over certain age can vote, it's not discriminatory to ask people to prove that. Lena Why create a new set of rules that will cost money during a down economy, may be burdensome or disenfranchising to a significant portion of the citizenry, and create more red tape, to solve a problem that does not exist?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 24, 2012 14:23:54 GMT -5
And from the "small government" party... irony at its best.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2012 14:24:04 GMT -5
John Stewart had a segment on one night about this (yes I watch John Stewart, no I don't get all of my news from him) and his stats said something like 10 people. I Jon Stewart! I think I DO get most of my news from him, LOL! ETA: Oh, and Stephen Colbert. Don't forget him!
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Sept 24, 2012 14:27:40 GMT -5
I am not saying that voting should required an ID, although, I don't see anything wrong with requiring proof of citizenship to vote. I am saying that asking for one is not discriminatory. In other words, yes, may be there is no fraud, but who cares?? If we are saying only citizens over certain age can vote, it's not discriminatory to ask people to prove that. Lena Why create a new set of rules that will cost money during a down economy, may be burdensome or disenfranchising to a significant portion of the citizenry, and create more red tape, to solve a problem that does not exist? like Obamacare.... ??
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2012 14:29:25 GMT -5
Yes, healthcare cost and availability problems only affect .004% of the population. Definitely an equal discussion to voter fraud.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Sept 24, 2012 14:31:25 GMT -5
Healthcare addresses a problem that doesn't exist? healthcare isn't a problem for republicans...we can afford it. it's the lowly leaches called democrats who pander to the lowest common denominator (called "poor people") who think "healthcare" is a problem. shockingly it's these same "poor people" who want the govt to give them more and more and more...
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 24, 2012 14:38:04 GMT -5
Taxi, I know you're trolling, but healthcare affordability depends far more on what one's employer covers (or pays) than one's political affiliation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 14:39:47 GMT -5
lol.... You know the RED states get MORE federal assistance than the blue one's right? You think everyone in Mississippi is rich? ... lol... all the republicans can afford health care... i'll be sure to tell all my friends, lol... By the way.. truely poor people HAVE health care too... its called Medicaid. Its the working middle class that misses out on health care most often, and small business owners.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 24, 2012 15:26:05 GMT -5
Are you asking me or people in general? Bc if you asking me, I never said we should. All I said and will continue saying is that asking for ID is not discrimination.
And as far as cost - I'd argue that fighting all kinds of "discriminations" costing us a lot more.
Lena
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Sept 24, 2012 15:40:36 GMT -5
Taxi, I know you're trolling, but healthcare affordability depends far more on what one's employer covers (or pays) than one's political affiliation. oh brother, everyone has an excuse. go buy yourself an insurance policy, if it's that important to you. it doesn't cost that much. liberals just love for "someone else" to pay the bill
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 24, 2012 15:55:17 GMT -5
And from the "small government" party... irony at its best. I don't actually think that the republicans are stupid and don't know that actual voter fraud isn't an issue worth fighting. Which is why I believe this issue is absolutely about discrimation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 15:58:20 GMT -5
Fighting discrimination is costly... all the more reason to stop passing legislation which is discriminatory in nature.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 24, 2012 15:58:32 GMT -5
Is there actually a state that ONLY allows photo ID at the polls or is this something some state is trying to pass? I just checked my state's requirements, there's all kinds of alternative IDs listed.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 24, 2012 16:02:06 GMT -5
Is there actually a state that ONLY allows photo ID at the polls or is this something some state is trying to pass? I just checked my state's requirements, there's all kinds of alternative IDs listed. Pennsylvania. And it's a brand new law just recently passed for this election.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2012 16:03:49 GMT -5
And from the "small government" party... irony at its best. I don't actually think that the republicans are stupid and don't know that actual voter fraud isn't an issue worth fighting. Which is why I believe this issue is absolutely about discrimation. Definitely. I don't care personally about Voter ID or whatever, but when you look at those who are trying to bring it about, it seems very obvious that it is a political move and not about solving an actual problem.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 24, 2012 16:07:38 GMT -5
Is there actually a state that ONLY allows photo ID at the polls or is this something some state is trying to pass? I just checked my state's requirements, there's all kinds of alternative IDs listed. Pennsylvania. And it's a brand new law just recently passed for this election. Ok, I'm used to a place that lets you use your hunting or fishing license for ID at the polls I can see how it's a pain to acquire a photo ID but in my white bread world everyone has one. I never really saw it as an issue to produce it to vote since I have to show it every other dang place in the world anymore.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 24, 2012 16:16:59 GMT -5
Pennsylvania. And it's a brand new law just recently passed for this election. Ok, I'm used to a place that lets you use your hunting or fishing license for ID at the polls I can see how it's a pain to acquire a photo ID but in my white bread world everyone has one. I never really saw it as an issue to produce it to vote since I have to show it every other dang place in the world anymore. It's not a problem for me to get a government issued ID either, other than the rage issues that invariably ensue when I have to stand in line at the DMV. But I'm literate and have a car, gas money and a job that it's not a problem to get away from for a few hours when I need to. My parents were also kind enough to hang onto important documents like birth certificate and whatnot that you might need to get your first ID. But those circumstances do not apply to everyone. I don't think it's unreasonable to put a voter ID law in place though, but rushing it into place for this election is shady. Particularly when you've got video of a guy saying it's going to give the election to Romney. And as has been pointed out, in person voter fraud is a non-issue...it just doesn't happen.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 24, 2012 16:21:49 GMT -5
Ok, I'm used to a place that lets you use your hunting or fishing license for ID at the polls I can see how it's a pain to acquire a photo ID but in my white bread world everyone has one. I never really saw it as an issue to produce it to vote since I have to show it every other dang place in the world anymore. It's not a problem for me to get a government issued ID either, other than the rage issues that invariably ensue when I have to stand in line at the DMV. But I'm literate and have a car, gas money and a job that it's not a problem to get away from for a few hours when I need to. My parents were also kind enough to hang onto important documents like birth certificate and whatnot that you might need to get your first ID. But those circumstances do not apply to everyone. I don't think it's unreasonable to put a voter ID law in place though, but rushing it into place for this election is shady. Particularly when you've got video of a guy saying it's going to give the election to Romney. And as has been pointed out, in person voter fraud is a non-issue...it just doesn't happen. I should've just asked you in the 1st place, I read through 3 pages and missed most of this (other than the difficulty some people have getting ID). dang cold meds making my brain all foggy.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 24, 2012 16:25:17 GMT -5
It's not a problem for me to get a government issued ID either, other than the rage issues that invariably ensue when I have to stand in line at the DMV. But I'm literate and have a car, gas money and a job that it's not a problem to get away from for a few hours when I need to. My parents were also kind enough to hang onto important documents like birth certificate and whatnot that you might need to get your first ID. But those circumstances do not apply to everyone. I don't think it's unreasonable to put a voter ID law in place though, but rushing it into place for this election is shady. Particularly when you've got video of a guy saying it's going to give the election to Romney. And as has been pointed out, in person voter fraud is a non-issue...it just doesn't happen. I should've just asked you in the 1st place, I read through 3 pages and missed most of this (other than the difficulty some people have getting ID). dang cold meds making my brain all foggy. I'll make you some soup and stroke your fevered brow. Then I'll indoctrinate you with my liberal agenda while you are under the influence of cold medicine. Don't worry, it won't hurt.....much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 16:27:09 GMT -5
Very nice synopsis.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 24, 2012 16:27:38 GMT -5
I should've just asked you in the 1st place, I read through 3 pages and missed most of this (other than the difficulty some people have getting ID). dang cold meds making my brain all foggy. I'll make you some soup and stroke your fevered brow. Then I'll indoctrinate you with my liberal agenda while you are under the influence of cold medicine. Don't worry, it won't hurt.....much. Um........thanks?? I know you me, so I'm not scared
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 24, 2012 16:31:08 GMT -5
Um........thanks?? I know you me, so I'm not scared I do!!! With all of my tiny, cold heart. And thank you, Oped!
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2012 18:36:13 GMT -5
Pennsylvania. And it's a brand new law just recently passed for this election. Ok, I'm used to a place that lets you use your hunting or fishing license for ID at the polls I can see how it's a pain to acquire a photo ID but in my white bread world everyone has one. I never really saw it as an issue to produce it to vote since I have to show it every other dang place in the world anymore. Speaking of Pennsylvania, I ran across this interesting tidbit: www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/24/hispanic-good-luck-voting-in-a-tight-presidential-race-millions-of-latinos-might-be-blocked-from-the-booth.htmlPuerto Ricans in Pennsylvania may have the most difficulty voting if the photo ID law is upheld, because 120,000 Puerto Rican immigrants have had their birth certificates invalidated and will not have time to get them renewed before election day. How are these folks supposed to exercise their legal right to vote if they are prevented legally from getting a photo ID? And how is this not a discriminatory decision that knowingly disenfranchises minorities? ETA: If the Republicans are so concerned about voting being fair and accurate, why are they not concerned about the possibility of 120,000 people being barred from voting due to this law?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Sept 25, 2012 8:27:49 GMT -5
Healthcare addresses a problem that doesn't exist? healthcare isn't a problem for republicans...we can afford it. it's the lowly leaches called democrats who pander to the lowest common denominator (called "poor people") who think "healthcare" is a problem. shockingly it's these same "poor people" who want the govt to give them more and more and more... Um, Ok I have to address this. My parents are not "lowly leaches". My dad owns multiple business, employs nearly 100 people, lives in a million dollar home that's paid for, has a half million dollar vacation home that he paid cash for and millions sitting in his investment accounts. Oh yeah- plus he is a republican. Guess who can't get insurance? That's right- my mom can't. She was diagnosed with breast cancer many years ago and has been in remission for over a decade. Pre-existing conditions they tell her. So she has to pay for special medical insurance that costs the two of them over $3000 a month because they aren't eligible for traditional insurance. Fortunately they can afford it but it's nice to know that you think they are leaches and poor.
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