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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 11:35:52 GMT -5
Fair enough, but I still don't think that is the fundamental issue. Shasta was perfectly happy to throw her tweaker neighbor under the bus. It's reasonable that someone may have ratted her out as well. The cops may have seen something legitimately, or they may have seen something inadmissible.
She's still breaking the fucking law.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 6, 2012 11:36:22 GMT -5
It was my understanding from the OP that while they may have been trespassing in walking around everyone's yards, at the time they saw Shasta's plants, they had a warrant for the area they were searching. I suppose it depends on what "look over the fence" involved, right? Glancing over and seeing some plants is different from climbing an 8' privacy fence and peering into the neighboring yards.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 11:39:01 GMT -5
Word out there is that the Feds are busting people who have a license to grow it. The feds around here are busting people who sell "smoking devices" which are legal per NY law, but illegal under federal law. You'd think they'd have better things to do than arrest a guy who sells bongs.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 11:41:24 GMT -5
Exactly.
What Shasta is doing is illegal, but what the cops are doing is wrong, too.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 6, 2012 12:04:27 GMT -5
"Seeing the plants while engaged in a warranted search would give them enough probable cause to perform a warrantless search under the 'plain view' doctrine."
This is my understanding as well. Police can search your home/car without a warrent if they have reasonable suspicion something is wrong. It would be like if the police knocked on someone's door, someone answered it, and somewhere in the background, someone is beating a child. The police have every right to respond if a crime is being committed in plain view.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 6, 2012 12:07:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry for a lot of the stresses and struggles in your life, but you aren't going to get any sympathy from me on this one. Even if it were legal, self-medicating is particularly dangerous for people with a history of mental health issues. More than anyone, you should only be using under a doctor's supervision. ------------------- You should go over to EE and tell them to stop self-medicating with booze.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 6, 2012 12:10:07 GMT -5
What the heck kind of neighborhood do you live in- that everyone grows weed? I could see a couple of people doing it, but everyone? Everyone grows it up where I have my cottage. Mostly elderly people, for....err...medicinal purposes. You should hear them laughing, and laughter IS the best medicine.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 12:13:29 GMT -5
"Seeing the plants while engaged in a warranted search would give them enough probable cause to perform a warrantless search under the 'plain view' doctrine." This is my understanding as well. Police can search your home/car without a warrent if they have reasonable suspicion something is wrong. It would be like if the police knocked on someone's door, someone answered it, and somewhere in the background, someone is beating a child. The police have every right to respond if a crime is being committed in plain view. Cars are treated differently than houses due to the transient nature of cars. if a cop sees a kid being beaten in front of a picture window, obviously they can go in and stop it since there is a risk of immediate harm. If they see drugs out in the open when they go in, they can seize the drugs. They can do a sweep of the house. They cannot look in stuff, under stuff, etc. They need to secure the residence and then go get a warrant. It's called "exigent circumstances" If something weird is going on and there is an immediate risk of harm to someone or the destruction of evidence, you don't need a warrant. Otherwise, go get one.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 6, 2012 12:26:36 GMT -5
Shasta, my advice is to the weed.
Regardless of the ethics whether pot should be legal or not, if you're breaking federal law the feds can arrest you. Even if you think you're right, you could still get busted and who needs that headache? It sounds like you're life is stressful enough without getting into legal trouble. Likewise, being the subject of a drug bust won't do much for your career as you try and get back on your feet. I can understand the arguments about how it's not really that bad and the cops should focus on "real crime." But those guys can make your life miserable. A few joints doesn't seem worth it
If you really care about it, get involved in political movements to legalize weed.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 12:40:52 GMT -5
Or just paint a big old freakin' bullseye on your house so they will target you.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 12:54:40 GMT -5
I don't know about the part where your plants were visible from a neighbor's property during a legal search, but you asked about driving down a long driveway and looking around. I'm pretty sure the court ruling on that is that driveways are considered publicly accessible. There was that case where cops put a GPS device on a guy's car while it was parked in his driveway without a warrant. They argued that driveways are public space so they didn't need one. Or something like that.
They pointed out that delivery and service people use the driveway, so it's not private property that's only for the homeowner's use, and it was upheld in court. So, your driveway isn't private property, and they can drive down it to look around. It might be different if you put a locking gate across it with a no trespassing sign. Assuming your mailbox is out by the street, so you can do that.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 6, 2012 12:58:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I don't think "no trespassing" signs are the issue. If they know she has plants, they are either coming back with a warrant or they aren't coming back. Signs won't invalidate what the cops have already seen, and it would be perjury to suggest the initial wandering was in violation of non-existent signs. Shasta, what you need to do is get a prescription or stop growing weed. Yes, I think marijuana should be legal, but it isn't. You are BREAKING THE LAW. I'm sorry for a lot of the stresses and struggles in your life, but you aren't going to get any sympathy from me on this one. Even if it were legal, self-medicating is particularly dangerous for people with a history of mental health issues. More than anyone, you should only be using under a doctor's supervision. I don't begrudge people needed medication. I don't begrudge people needed social services. And I don't begrudge people legal representation, because I value our justice system. But could you take a little less glee in having the taxpayers foot the bill for an attorney when you are willfully BREAKING THE LAW? And for fuck's sake, I hope the email account you used to register at ProBoards and then ADMIT TO A CRIME isn't linked to your real identity. Seriously?!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 13:01:45 GMT -5
Shasta/Goldpanning lives in the same part of the state as I and there are many in our area who grow. It seems that anyone who has the ability to get to a doctor can get a RX to grow and use. Now we hear that the Feds are busting people for doing it. Very confusing. Doesnt federal law trump state law Thinking what Arizona tried with illegals..... If the feds want to cause a ruckus, seems like a good place to start. Especially if "everyone is doing it" Arrest the whole town....that would make news
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 13:02:35 GMT -5
Word! If you're legal according to the state, but breaking federal law, you might get a jury that'll refuse to convict. If you're breaking both state and federal law you're screwed.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 13:04:07 GMT -5
Yes, but we also have to convicted by a jury of our peers. If she lives in an area where everybody grows, they might find her not guilty, even in federal court, as long as she was legally growing according to her state.
The key word in there is might. You could be doing everything legally according to your state, have a doctors prescription, all that jazz. If some federal cop wants to be a dick he can still arrest you, and the federal prosecutor can still go after you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 13:12:52 GMT -5
Is this really what we want the fed to waste their time and money on ?
I still don't understand, it seems like people are saying different things. Swamp said if they saw it over a fence, they would need to get a warrant... so that means they just can't go search if it was in 'plain view' over the fence ? Would they be abe to get a warrent under those circumstances?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 13:15:50 GMT -5
Probably. When several cops go to a judge and says we saw X with our own eyes and would like a warrant to go confiscate, I don't imagine the judge asks too many questions after that.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 13:18:18 GMT -5
Is this really what we want the fed to waste their time and money on ? I still don't understand, it seems like people are saying different things. Swamp said if they saw it over a fence, they would need to get a warrant... so that means they just can't go search if it was in 'plain view' over the fence ? Would they be abe to get a warrent under those circumstances? It's not in plain view if you have to scale an 8 foot privacy fence to see it. If it's a 6 foot fence, I guess it depends on how tall the cops are. But even if they saw legitimately over a short fence, they still need to get a warrant to search beyond what they can see right in front of them.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 13:19:00 GMT -5
Probably. When several cops go to a judge and says we saw X with our own eyes and would like a warrant to go confiscate, I don't imagine the judge asks too many questions after that. Then the cops look like an ass in the suppression hearing when pictures of the 8 foot privacy fence are introduced.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Sept 6, 2012 13:23:09 GMT -5
They may not need a warrant if it is visible from off the property. However, the tv channel has no right trespassing, although no one really prosecutes simple trespassing. However if the property has No Trespassing signs, it goes to a minor felony.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 13:28:09 GMT -5
If there was an 8 foot privacy fence. She said everyone there has a minimum of 2.5 acres. Most people with lots that big don't put privacy fence all the way around it.
She might have privacy fence or landscaping that blocks visibility from the road, but once the cops were in the neighbors yard they could clearly see the plants in her yard since it's just chain link, or what have you between the properties.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 6, 2012 13:28:53 GMT -5
GPG, how tall is your fence?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 13:29:51 GMT -5
They may not need a warrant if it is visible from off the property. However, the tv channel has no right trespassing, although no one really prosecutes simple trespassing. However if the property has No Trespassing signs, it goes to a minor felony. There is no such thing as felony trespass. If you property is posted and someone goes on it, it's a violation trespass, like a traffic ticket. If someone goes in your house, it's a criminal trespass, a misdemeanor.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 13:52:59 GMT -5
And possessing a reasonable amount of marijuana is a misdemeanor, while growing any amount is a felony. Punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a $250k fine.
FELONY!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 13:55:30 GMT -5
And possessing a reasonable amount of marijuana is a misdemeanor, while growing any amount is a felony. Punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a $250k fine. FELONY! depends on the state. NY allows you up to 26 grams of mj before it even becomes a crime. And if you're charged with a misdemeanor, your are entitled as a matter of law to have the first marijuana misdemeanor dismissed. You have to have more than 8 oz of pot before it becomes a felony. That's a lot of pot.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 13:59:45 GMT -5
Not if you have three reasonably healthy plants in your backyard.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 14:00:29 GMT -5
Not if you have three reasonably healthy plants in your backyard. pull them and nuke them when the cops are coming. takes all the water out and reduces the weight.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 6, 2012 14:02:22 GMT -5
And is your neighbor's property hilly. You guys live up in the mountains, and if they were searching his/her 2.5+ acres for illegal plants they'd cover the whole property. If there's some part of your neighbor's property that's high enough to see the plants in your yard even with a privacy fence, the fence itself won't matter. If the cops could clearly see your plants, they won't have a problem getting a warrant if they want to get one.
Go pay your $150, get your prescription, and at least you'll have legal coverage as far as the state is concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 14:04:16 GMT -5
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 6, 2012 14:05:07 GMT -5
well that's a stupid law. Growing in NY is a misdemeanor.
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