Non-Religious People

[Loopdilou]

I honestly don't like talking about religion particularly often, but I do like the option. So for all those Secular loving, no religious affiliation, not particularly convinced that there is a GOD with a capital G or even a god with a little g, or gods, or whatever, maybe you're agnostic, or believe in the many worlds theory and that what we think of as the Creator is actually some scientist in another Universe who accidentally created our Universe in a lab experiment, this is the place for you!!

My story:

I am an Atheist. I have been since.. ohh.. I don't even know when, it was definitely a gradual process, which I will now elucidate.

I was raised in the Church of Religious Science, which I remember just little enough about that I had to go to the wikipedia page for a refresher course.

The Church of Religious Science believes the following:


We believe in God, the living Spirit Almighty; one, indestructible, absolute, and self-existent Cause. This One manifests Itself in and through all creation, but is not absorbed by Its creation. The manifest universe is the body of God; it is the logical and necessary outcome of the infinite self-knowingness of God.

We believe in the individualization of the Spirit in Us, and that all people are individualizations of the One Spirit.

We believe in the eternality, the immortality, and the continuity of the individual soul, forever and ever expanding.

We believe that heaven is within us, and that we experience it to the degree that we become conscious of it.

We believe the ultimate goal of life to be a complete freedom from all discord of every nature, and that this goal is sure to be attained by all.

We believe in the unity of all life, and that the highest God and the innermost God is one God. We believe that God is personal to all who feel this indwelling presence.

We believe in the direct revelation of truth through our intuitive and spiritual nature, and that anyone may become a revealer of truth who lives in close contact with the indwelling God.

We believe that the Universal Spirit, which is God, operates through a Universal Mind, which is the Law of God; and that we are surrounded by this Creative Mind which receives the direct impress of our thought and acts upon it.

We believe in the healing of the sick through the power of this Mind.
We believe in the control of conditions through the power of this Mind.

We believe in the eternal Goodness, the eternal Loving-kindness, and the eternal Givingness of Life to all.

We believe in our own soul, our own spirit, and our own destiny; for we understand that the life of all is God.

We believe in the power of our own beliefs.

These hippy-ass beliefs are probably what led me to become an avowed skeptic, but whatever. My dad taught Sunday school so I was there every week and I genuinely enjoyed the community aspect of our church. It was nice, but I was definitely taught to QUESTION. I am, however, the only Atheist in the family, which is a slightly lonely place to be even if your father is a guy who likes to argue with anyone who believes in a specific religion (he still believes in a "GOD").

I spent years hopping between churches of friends, reading books on the various religions, etc, and, eventually, I realized that I just didn't believe in A) Organized religion AT ALL, and B) Anything resembling a higher power.

This was an absolute revelation for me, but even the agnostic of the world will question my stance. Absent proof, I choose not to believe in a higher power. Make of that what you will.

I have never considered myself an immoral person and am genuinely flabbergasted when religious people suggest that I am unable to be moral if I don't believe in an afterlife (or something along those lines). I was raised to believe in the Golden Rule which, though it is an imperfect rule, is a good one to live by. I often wonder if mankind might be better off if we had more faith in ourselves.

Anyway, just wanted to share. It isn't easy being an Atheist.. I feel uncomfortable just leaving the words "Under God" out of the pledge of allegiance because I'm a "public figure". I wonder if my daughters will face undue pressure if they decide to believe as I do. I never worried about these things where we used to live, but our new home is a great deal more religious.

I'm done for now. ;D

[weltschmerz]

I was raised in a strict Russian Orthodox household. We went to church every Sunday. I started questioning religious tenets at the age of eleven, because they didn't make sense to me. "Because the bible says so" was not an answer, as far as I was concerned. I went through a crisis of faith as an adult and sought answers. I looked for them in Judaism, Buddhism, Catholicism....you name it. I went to temples, churches and synagogues. I spoke to rabbis, ministers and elders. It drove me straight into the the arms of Secular Humanism. That's where I feel the most comfortable. These are the principles I try to live by.

Need to test beliefs – A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
Reason, evidence, scientific method – A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence and scientific method of inquiry in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
Search for truth – A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
This life – A concern for this life (as opposed to an afterlife) and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
Justice and fairness – an interest in securing justice and fairness in society and in eliminating discrimination and intolerance.[17]
Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

[weltschmerz]

I spent years hopping between churches of friends, reading books on the various religions, etc, and, eventually, I realized that I just didn't believe in A) Organized religion AT ALL, and B) Anything resembling a higher power.
--------------
It's a common theme in atheism. We didn't become atheists in a vacuum. We first studied religion and holy books, often in great detail. We realized there were no answers to be found there.

[Jaguar]

I just watched Through The Wormhole with Morgan Freeman, it was called "Did We Invent God ?" and it was absolutely fascinating. I'll definitely get this DVD series cause this is so much what I believe in.

I believe everything is made in some or other supernova out in space and all came together, in a scientific way.

Genetic Material Found on Meteorites

www.popsci.com/military-aviation-....life-meteorites

www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=were-meteorites-the-origi

www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/201....e-on-earth.html

earthsky.org/space/earthly-life-arose-from-space-materials-scientists-say

techie-buzz.com/science/dna-building-material-found-meteorite.html

www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2087758,00.html

www.ibtimes.com/articles/195073/2....-from-space.htm

news.discovery.com/space/meteorites-dna-life-earth-space-110809.html

www.space.com/12569-meteorites-dna-building-blocks-discovery.html

[Jaguar]

I grew up in a household that was not religious in any sense of the word. I was told that I had to follow the ten commandments and that was it. My Mom though grew up in a very religious Protestant household. In 1997 I went into the Roman Catholic faith gung ho. I studied the Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius for 18 months & I took a 3 month course in prayer. I understand now, that at that time that's what I needed.

I started Meditating with Transcendental Meditation in 1992 and that has stayed with me all these years. I started Buddhist Meditation in 2004 and that's made my mind more stronger than anything and everything else. I also do BrainWave Entrainment.

[weltschmerz]

Sugi, do you still consider yourself to be a Catholic?

[Jaguar]

Aug 28, 2012 3:03:01 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sugi, do you still consider yourself to be a Catholic?

No

[Deleted]

I was brought up in a Christian-by-default household, quite typical of white, 80's/90's, Southern England I think. Christian-by-default as in, we celebrated Christmas and Easter but never went to church, never read the Bible, thought people who did were a bit weird, and so on; a mere reflection of the culture -implicitly Christian.

Early experiences led me towards atheism. This was consolidated in my teens when I became almost militantly anti-religious/anti-spiritual -thought it was the scourge of mankind. Then in my late teens/early 20's, experiences led me back the other way. Since then, on matters of God, I have floated around an agnostic stance, which has become more ignosticism of late, and on matters of religion I have developed a better understanding. That is to say I think developing a personal sense of spirituality is of vital importance, however when such becomes institutionalised into an organised religion it all goes horribly wrong.

So, I'm not religious but highly spiritual in my own way. I have certain beliefs which seem intrinsic to me, and my status as a free-agent affords me the luxury of being able to pick through the beliefs of others and add certain ideas to the tapestry of existing views.

Recently I have been exploring Taoism - its philosophical meanderings seem to accord with, and expand upon, my own inherent views very well - and I have also revisited Christianity. Of the latter, whereas at primary school the religion lost much of its charm though our being compelled against our wishes to sing hymns and pray during morning assemblies, revisiting it through choice and with a more open mind has been far more beneficial. I have dabbled, and continue to dabble, in Buddhism; I had a girlfriend a while back through whom I was able to get to grips with Judaism, and another who was into 'Krishna consciousness', which was quite interesting too.

I feel quite lucky to have been brought up in a multicultural society, for my friends have always been varied - Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, 7th Day Adventists, Satanists, Archaic Revivalists - you name it. Spiritually, it has proven to be a highly nutritious environment.

[Deleted]

I was brought up in a Catholic household. We went to church sporadically, but we kids were sent to religious education classes once a week. Heck, I even taught religion for a couple of years.

I never had a crisis of faith or anything, though. When it stopped making sense to me I stopped believing and that was that. I have no problem saying "one nation under god" or bowing my head in someone else's house. It's not a big enough deal to me to "stand up for what I don't believe in" I guess.

[chiver78]

I was also raised Catholic, I jokingly call myself "recovering Catholic" these days. personally, I don't follow any specific teachings. I definitely live my life by the Golden Rule and take significant offense if someone implies that I am immoral simply because I don't believe in a book (any of them, really) that was written by mankind. I find myself leaning more toward Pagan and Wiccan beliefs, but am not a practitioner of anything.

I just try to live my life well, and with honorable words and deeds. IMHO, no book is going to make someone do that if they aren't already inclined to do so.

Aug 28, 2012 9:54:56 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

I have no problem saying "one nation under god" or bowing my head in someone else's house.

to me, it seems more that I am respecting my host's beliefs than expressing my own. I find myself reciting Catholic mass - the Latin parts too - to myself out of habit when I happen to be in a church for weddings/funerals. I don't partake of Communion, but I do follow the motions out of respect.

[Reckless Roselia]

I find myself leaning more toward Pagan and Wiccan beliefs, but am not a practitioner of anything.

Wow...that's interesting. I wonder if I myself have Wiccan blood.

Interestingly enough non-religious people can also lean towards a system of beliefs that may have connections to religiosity or spirituality.

[Reckless Roselia]

I believe everything is made in some or other supernova out in space and all came together, in a scientific way.

I am actually made up of stardust, Sugi.

[Jaguar]

Aug 28, 2012 10:29:14 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

I believe everything is made in some or other supernova out in space and all came together, in a scientific way.

I am actually made up of stardust, Sugi.

I have no doubt about that Roselia.

[Jaguar]

Aug 28, 2012 10:28:09 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

I find myself leaning more toward Pagan and Wiccan beliefs, but am not a practitioner of anything.

Wow...that's interesting. I wonder if I myself have Wiccan blood.

Interestingly enough non-religious people can also lean towards a system of beliefs that may have connections to religiosity or spirituality.

I wonder if I have Wiccan or Shamanistic blood as well. I lean towards my spiritual side.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I read a lot MDW's posts/as well as communicated with him privately about his Wiccan lifestyle/beliefs. It was interesting to find that we shared a lot of the same thoughts and feelings on the subject.

[Loopdilou]

I don't go through the motions of religious practices because I honestly feel that my participation would be disrespectful. I don't vocally argue against them or anything, but since I am not a member of their religion I feel as if there is an element of falseness or a lie in my participation. I have to remain true to myself and if people expect other of me, then it would be a disengenous expectation. Most religions don't promote lying, after all.

I do agree that my path and the path of most non-religious people has a commonality - we all search and seek to understand. Which is not to say that religious people don't do the same, I think they just tend to do less of it.

If I were to participate in a "church" I could only see myself as a Unitarian, because of their all-inclusive nature and lack of prostelization.

I do not believe in souls or spirits so I don't consider myself "spiritual" at all, however I do find those terms occasionally useful. My essential being is not composed of anything so ephemeral though. Chemical and electrical soup is far more fascinating to me anyway

[Loopdilou]

I will also admit to going through a pseudo militant atheistic phase. That is one thing that my years have tempered. I realized at some point that I really just wanted to be left alone and so leave others to their own devices as well. That said, I am still hugely concerned with a lack of "faith" in science that religious people in this country exhibit. I think it tends to hold us back both as a nation and a species. Sometimes you can't leave things alone if they are detrimental to society as a whole.

[chiver78]

Aug 28, 2012 23:47:48 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

I don't go through the motions of religious practices because I honestly feel that my participation would be disrespectful. I don't vocally argue against them or anything, but since I am not a member of their religion I feel as if there is an element of falseness or a lie in my participation. I have to remain true to myself and if people expect other of me, then it would be a disengenous expectation. Most religions don't promote lying, after all.

I guess in my situation, it is the path of least resistance. The family that is the most religious is the side that I see least often, generally for things like weddings/funerals - both of which happen in church. I feel like it would be more disrespectful to stick out for not participating than it is to go through the motions disingenuously. YMMV. I am comfortable in my own thoughts and beliefs, and at the same do not want to disrespect my Memere and all that she believes. my opinion on this will probably change when Memere is no longer with us. I have no problems being myself around my cousins. I do not expect my 90-yo grandmother to understand why I don't go to the church she raised her family in, nor am I going to force her to.

sent from my electronic distraction

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2012 23:52:00 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

I will also admit to going through a pseudo militant atheistic phase. That is one thing that my years have tempered.

Yes, that's the size of it for me too. I eventually realised that many of the "problems caused by religion" are really just products of human nature; religion is merely one kind of medium for their expression.

This is not to absolve religion entirely, I hasten to add.

Sometimes you can't leave things alone if they are detrimental to society as a whole.

[Deleted]

I realized at some point that I really just wanted to be left alone and so leave others to their own devices as well.

That's me! I don't have the right to tell others how to live their lives. And besides, I am too lazy to waste the energy trying to convince them of anything anyway.

When I go to church services I stand and sit with everyone else but I am thinking about other things while doing it.....usually the people up front (since it's weddings and funerals only). I wish the couple well and I hope the deceased gets whatever they wanted out of their afterlife.

[Loopdilou]

I just don't participate in the religious ceremony aspects. It's perfectly alright to sit (and stand too) quietly and remain respectful.

I just hope my kids aren't persecuted in HS like I was.

[chiver78]

sorry, I view people sitting, standing, and kneeling as participating to some extent. that is all I do, too. I remember seeing people sitting quietly when I was a kid, and having family look askance at them. I think we're on the same page.

ETA: when I said I find myself reciting, it's more the ingrained habit than anything else. when I found myself in churches for the weddings of college friends, after many years away, it almost became a challenge to myself to see if I could remember the entire Mass....including the Latin. at this point, I'd love to be able to forget it all if only to regain the space in my brain.

[Loopdilou]

Aug 29, 2012 18:37:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

sorry, I view people sitting, standing, and kneeling as participating to some extent. that is all I do, too. I remember seeing people sitting quietly when I was a kid, and having family look askance at them. I think we're on the same page.

Gotcha. Same page, indeed! I don't bow my head and pray or say the catechism or whatever else might be asked of members of various religions, but I can at least be quiet while everyone else does!

I have not always done this and I regret that.

[Cookies Galore]

I was raised Catholic, but I honestly think I was an atheist from the beginning. I simply never felt anything toward the existence of God or not. I never questioned because, to me, there was nothing to question. I remember sitting in church just staring at the stained glass windows, studying other people, singing songs to myself, but the words being recited didn't mean anything to me.

I still enjoyed studying other religions in college because I want to understand as much as I can. I like knowing what makes me people tick and religion is a big part of that. Belief systems are fascinating to me, be they religious, cultural, or political.

I normally just sit there when I'm church, but recitation is pretty ingrained, so I do catch myself mouthing along. I do have a nun and a monsignor on my Mom's side of the family, after all!

[vonna]

Loop -- thanks for starting this thread.

I am an atheist as well, but sometimes wonder how/what I should be teaching my children. My youngest has had virtually no indoctrination to religion. My oldest has become an atheist through his own thought process (I'm divorced - his dad became "born again" after we divorced, so he made his decision on his own, and knows A LOT about religion.)

Do you have kids? How do you handle teaching them about religion?

[Loopdilou]

I don't. Dark believes we should avoid the topic for the most part. They know that religion exists and when they're a bit older I may throw some comparitive religion books at them. Better to let them come by their beliefs naturally. They do know what Dark and I believe, but we don't dwell on it.

[vonna]

Teaching my youngster about religion is something I sometimes worry about - maybe because we live in a very religious area right now.

My eldest, I don't have to worry about - he knows more about religious dogma than most believers, and can hold his own.

But, they have had very different childhoods.

Great post. Important topic! At least for some of us!

[cael]

I was raised Unitarian Universalist by two recovering-Catholic parents, one of whom describes himself as a liberal Christian and the other of whom is Buddhist (mom took her vows at a monastery when I was maybe 8 or 9, but isn't really practicing right now). The older I've gotten the more I've realized I think I'm an atheist and I've started to embrace it. When I was little and in Sunday school (we learned about all different religions and traditions), I remember trying to convince myself that god and angels were real, because what a cool idea - but I could never get past that idea that I was just trying to convince myself of it, and had to take a look at why that was. I could never bring myself to believe it. Just like the gnomes and fairies my Waldorf school was all about... fun idea, but in the back of my head I could never buy it. (which sounds kind of sad and like I lacked imagination, but it didn't hurt me one bit thinking that way, lol)

I feel very strongly about the 7 principles of UU-ism - I think it's good philosophy to live by regardless of what religion you subscribe to.

UU congregations affirm and promote:
The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

[chiver78]

Aug 29, 2012 19:47:58 GMT -5 cael said:

I feel very strongly about the 7 principles of UU-ism - I think it's good philosophy to live by regardless of what religion you subscribe to.

UU congregations affirm and promote:
The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

this sounds like an expansion on the Golden Rule, and very much like how I live my life too.


meghan, I also like to know as much as I can. I don't see anything wrong with questioning why people believe what they do, as much as I've gotten grief for asking the questions I have. like any topic, I can't understand why anyone might think that more education is a bad thing.

[mmhmm]

I was raised by two atheists, but my mother got a book of bible stories for me. She read them to me before I could read, as she wanted me to be aware of what was out there and the choices I could make. I appreciated it, and still do. I went to a lot of different churches as a preteen and young teen, and looked into different belief systems. I did read the bible, cover to cover. I guess I'm closest to Secular Humanism in my beliefs. It makes sense to me.