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Post by mox on Aug 24, 2012 19:21:34 GMT -5
Make 'em clean out that blender too! ;D
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 24, 2012 19:21:46 GMT -5
swasat, the cancelling the b-day invitation I struggle with. I have always felt like it would be really unfair to the birthday child to have a friend not attend who said they were coming. It's a consequence I really don't want to follow through on, so I try to avoid that one at all costs. MM, the one time I cancelled it I let the mother of the child know. I was very honest with her and told her that DS's behaviour is causing me concern hence I have decided aginst sending him to the party. She understood, at least she said she understood. I understand what you are saying. But to me the behaviour of my child was of utmost concern and I didn't feel ready to send a bratty child to the party. I know my way is not a popular choice. But hey, to each his own It got me the results.
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Post by mox on Aug 24, 2012 19:23:12 GMT -5
Example of praise: "Son, that was the BEST margarita ANYONE has ever made for me! Go get yourself a smelly sticker..."
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 24, 2012 19:24:28 GMT -5
swasat - I had someone cancel last minute to one of DD's bday parties once for the same reason. I completely supported her, and would do it to my own child.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Aug 24, 2012 19:34:52 GMT -5
swasat, the cancelling the b-day invitation I struggle with. I have always felt like it would be really unfair to the birthday child to have a friend not attend who said they were coming. It's a consequence I really don't want to follow through on, so I try to avoid that one at all costs. DH and I did something similar with his son (my SS) the last time he had his "party" (for himself, not a friend). We have 4 kids and give them each a turn at having a "big" party at whatever venue they want (within reason) - they still get a family party every year, but we'll go all out every 4 years for each of them. The last year that was SS's turn (2 years ago, I think), he was getting into serious trouble at school in March/April - detentions and suspensions for fighting. His b-day is towards the end of May. We told him that if he didn't straighten up, we were going to cancel his party. That got him to thinking and he started behaving......until..... 2 days before his party. He got suspended again - after invitations had already gone out. He tried to say we couldn't cancel the party because invites had already gone out and all of his friends were looking forward to attending at the local game park (similar to a Chucky-Cheese, but meant for older kids). We cancelled his party anyway and made him tell his friends. We still gave him his cake and the presents we bought him.....but he learned we were serious. He's not been in any fights since.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Aug 24, 2012 19:39:18 GMT -5
LMAO!!! True... I've told her to drink... My work here is done... And that may have been the best advice, because after just one margarita my attitude is SO MUCH BETTER!!! I even let my kids play video games even though there really hasn't been any progress on their rooms. I think their eyeballs fell out of their heads in shock. ;D We had a really awesome system with chore chart etc during the school year and it just fell apart this summer. I think we need to get back into that routine and it will be smoother. And I know if I can just get a few hours without a child tugging on me for something *I* will be much more coherent. I'm just not cut out for this SAHM job. In the meantime, though, cheers to alcohol! School starts for us on Monday - I can't wait and I'm not even at home with my kids!! If your system works during the school year, I vote that it's just a matter of "cabin fever" this summer and things should get better in short order. <<off to look for my own drink >>
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 24, 2012 20:39:37 GMT -5
I'd say part of it is developmental. They are still really young and there is a HUGE developmental jump around the age of 8 when they start to really see that they are independent beings. I wouldn't give up trying to get them to clean up, but you may need to adjust your expectations slightly.
And, as you have been doing, don't let your DD off because of your DS's autism. Remind her that she doesn't share his struggles so she doesn't get his accommodations.
As for your DS, put a goal in his IEP to work on organizational/clean up skills. It is one of those life skills that he needs to generalize and use in all facets of his life.
If all else fails, contain it to one of their rooms, and then let it play out. They may get frustrated enough in time when they lose pieces, step on pieces, don't have room to do anything else, etc. because of the mess on the floor. Some kids just learn experientially. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 20:43:15 GMT -5
They are pretty young. But, this is a good time to start having them pick up. But, don't be punitive about it and threaten to take away their toys or they are going to associate chores as being a bad thing. You need to pick up with them and do it together. Just say, OK kids, it is clean up time!! And, talk about how everyone in the house works together for the good of the family and each other and set about doing it with them. And, over time, it will become a natural thing to them. And, you will find that younger children really are eager to please you. My DD (10) happily does the dishes and other chores because she does want to please me. Not so much my teen boys, but they realize the quickest way to get out of the house now is to get the work done.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 24, 2012 21:38:20 GMT -5
Oh, and if I had a nickel for every time this summer I asked my teen boys to put their dishes in the dishwasher, or put their boat-sized shoes away, or close back up the chips/cereal/bread/whatever before it goes stale, or put their empty water bottle in the recycling, or put their bikes in the garage, or...you get the drift.
They have their really organized and helpful moments and their drive-Mom-to-drink-with-our-teenagerness moments.
I'm going to miss both types of moments so very much in a few short years that it hurts to even think about it. Heck, I am already sincerely dreading them going back to school in a couple of weeks. I enjoy having them around even if they drive me crazy, LOL.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 24, 2012 23:15:09 GMT -5
And it's the school's job to teach him this because?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 23:30:06 GMT -5
Because some kids need more consistancy, repetition and structure than others in order to internalize a lesson. The school has him many hours a day, its important for kids with special needs, especially autism, to have consistancy of goals and routine between school and home. Also, life skills are generally a part of an IEP. When the kids get to high school, a specific Transition Plan is used to make sure they have the skills that are necessary to transition to independent adult life, and they are not just core academics... ie... there is a bit more to special education than there, their and they're
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 24, 2012 23:33:29 GMT -5
Wouldn't that benefit all kids? Why does it becomes the school's job to teach things that should be learned at home in the case of a kid with delays?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 23:42:26 GMT -5
Because IDEA and ADA etc. say it is.... Because the purpose of public eduction is to prepare kids to be as independent, and contributing members of society as they are capable of being... and if you qualify for special education as MR or LD or ED, then it has been determined that you need more than the standard curriculum/structure/methods in order to achieve that outcome.
Sometimes parents don't have the knowledge and/or skills to deal with a specific issue, or they can't do it just in the years/hours outside of school... kids spend a large part of their life at school... These kids also have their own goals, and as stated, they are not always just academic... they can encompass anything that would make the child more likely to be independent and successful...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 24, 2012 23:54:45 GMT -5
That's slightly different since the schools job is to teach academics. I don't expect them to teach morals, sharing, cleaning up after yourself, etc. That part is the parents job. Also, gifted kids fall under all the same special education laws as kids with delays. Neither group was entitled to any kind of special treatment or resources until the laws were passed. Legally it should be just as valid for parents of gifted kids to get IEP's for their kids, reasonable accommodations, one on one time, etc.
In the real world the schools only have so many resources, and a kid with downs or something needs more of those resources than a gifted kid. I can accept that. I don't have to like it per se, but I accept it. At the same time, I kid with high functioning autism doesn't need those resources as much as the kid with downs either. Across the board, if something can be handled at home I don't think our first reaction should be to try and have the school do it instead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 0:01:15 GMT -5
In Pennsylvania gifted kids do get IEPs, but I've heard that is not universal ? ...
I don't think the poster was suggesting the mother just hang back and let the school take care of it... just that it is a noted issue and IEP is where you bring up issues, and if there can be some consitency with reinforcing at school, as at home, then the child might internalize it faster... ie. a partnership working together, not the school doing it 'instead'...
Also, often mitigating behavioral and organizational issues has a direct impact on the ability of a student to tackle the academics, so its ancillary...
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sbcalimom
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Post by sbcalimom on Aug 25, 2012 18:49:43 GMT -5
My DD1 is a younger but one thing I noticed was that if I say clean up she doesn't do it at all. But, if I break it down into smaller tasks, she will do it. So instead of saying, "pick up all your toys" I will say "pick up your blocks" and then "pick up your dolls" etc. I also try to help her out but not do it all myself. Granted it doesn't always work, but it does help get her to do at least half of the clean up.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Aug 25, 2012 20:26:56 GMT -5
I will start by saying I do not have kids. I have dogs, but positive reinforcement techniques work for orcas, dogs and if you can teach a chicken to play the piano using these methods surely children fall into he same range of intellect. The basic premise is instead of using a negative approach, like taking something away- you find out what they will work for. Start small and work in the general direction you want them to go. For example, instead of trying to get them to clean an ENTIRE room, pick one small thing- say pick up your stuffed animals, or this pile right here. When they do it, lots of praise and reward. Gradually add more, and require more cleaning and more effort to get the reward. This technique works for all mammals, people included.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 20:45:00 GMT -5
My GD was seeing a therapist at 6. The therapist said it was unreasonable to expect a 6/7 year old to clean up their own room . . . guess who they aren't seeing any more!!!
As long as there is no food in the room, why do you care if it is clean or not? Maybe shut the doors? Disclaimer: Grandparent perspective means you realize you sweated too much of the small stuff. Is it really worth the battles for a clean room? My thoughts now - It doesn't matter a bit.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 27, 2012 12:38:01 GMT -5
I don't understand the concept. <Beth heads to the kitchen to toss another pair of shoes into the shoe basket.>
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 27, 2012 12:41:45 GMT -5
No kidding, my kids were helping me put their toys away when they could walk. I'd lose a therapist who was that nuts as well. Good call there.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 27, 2012 12:44:43 GMT -5
...:::"Hang a leather belt on the wall. Right smack in the middle of a living room wall works well, but anywhere really visible works. Tell them to pick their stuff up. If they don't tell them to get you the belt. Should only have to do it once.":::...
I thought the preferred YM implement was a wooden spoon? Or is that just WCPaul...
...:::"When my boys get sent to their rooms as punishment they have to sit on the floor cross legged hands in their laps. It is not a time to play. And yes, I check in on them b/c my youngest is notorious for going in there and thinking he can screw around.":::...
Powerful stuff... even a few minutes of that is an eternity for a child.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 12:56:02 GMT -5
I tell my kids that if they don't pick them up I will. Only took once because I made a big deal of putting them in a trash bag and let them assume it will go in the garbage. ;D
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 27, 2012 13:04:07 GMT -5
We didn't have any wooden spoons in the house, and the leather belt looks more menacing just hanging there.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 27, 2012 13:07:44 GMT -5
I think they're too young to expect them to be meticulous in picking up their toys yet. They should be able to remove their stuff from the common areas and keep their mess in their rooms, though.
I took an Active Parenting class when DS was small, and the way to deal with this kind of thing without it turning into a shouting match or a power struggle is to be consistent with the consequences. So you tell them "I need you to pick up the stuff in the living room floor and put it in your room by 11 am. If you don't have it picked up by 11, I'm going to pick it up and keep all of it for two weeks." Then set a clock in the room where they can see it and go drink your margaretas. At 11, take a trashbag and pick up anything left on the floor, label it with a date two weeks in the future, and set it on a shelf where they can see it but can't get it. Do the same thing every day until they have no toys anymore, or until they learn you are serious.
However, I only applied this to stuff left outside their room. The only rule I had about their room was that they couldn't have food or dirty dishes in there, to attract vermin. Otherwise, they could leave it as messy or as neat as they wanted. I didn't care, I could shut the door.
Just because kids are messy doesn't mean they have no motivation. DS always did very well in school, took mostly AP classes, graduated college with honors, etc., etc., His room was always a sty. His dad was the same way, he didn't start to get organized with his stuff until we got married, now he's Mr Neat (as well as Mr Cheap).
Some things are worth fighting over, having an immaculate room isn't one of them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 27, 2012 13:07:45 GMT -5
How can you stir without a wooden spoon?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 27, 2012 13:08:00 GMT -5
I'd scratch my nice pots.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 27, 2012 13:09:45 GMT -5
Plastic and metal spoons. Wood is porous and can't really be cleaned.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 27, 2012 13:20:18 GMT -5
Plastic is bad. Metal scratches.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 27, 2012 13:20:46 GMT -5
Example of praise: "Son, that was the BEST margarita ANYONE has ever made for me! Go get yourself a smelly sticker..." Tea on the monitor. Karma.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 27, 2012 13:24:45 GMT -5
And, as you have been doing, don't let your DD off because of your DS's autism. Remind her that she doesn't share his struggles so she doesn't get his accommodations.
Maybe also remind her that DS not being held to the same standards as DD is not because you like him better or he's getting special treatment... he's held to different standards because he struggles with things that will never be anywhere near as hard for her.
And that it might SEEM favorable to him sometimes, in reality she wouldn't want to deal with those struggles.
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