happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 23, 2012 9:56:03 GMT -5
I have noticed a correlation between food habits and spending habits in myself. When I have a lot of stress (long work hours, short deadlines, impossible job tasks, rogue co-workers, etc etc) my good intentions for what I eat flies out the window. I know I shouldn't hit the snack machine for a candy bar, but mentally I am in that 'fuck it' mood.
If I have to go shopping for something while in this mind frame, I have the same 'fuck it' mentality. I don't take the time to comparison shop, and I fall prey to impulse purchases. Once, I almost bought a dog at the mall pet store. Without asking DH.
Conversely if I'm not stressed and overloaded at work, I don't think about the snack machine. If I go shopping, I'll stop at multiple stores to find the best price and quality, and I only purchase what I came to buy. I make much more thoughtful decisions.
It's easy not to overspend when stressed out - I don't have time to shop, so it's easy to avoid the stores. However, food is everywhere. If someone just got on your last nerve and you have to work two hours over the point when everyone else has gone home for the day, some fatty, sugary snack food is never far away, and I'm not in the mood, at that point, to be 'good.'
My doctor recommends I avoid stress. So I could quit my job and go live in a box, but that would cause other types of stress.
Sadly I think American society, especially in this economic downturn, is pretty much jam full of stress, unless you're one of the 1% or you had a lobotomy.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 23, 2012 10:02:10 GMT -5
Well, who am I to argue with feeding therapists, and may be my dr and I are old school, but I don't make a big deal about food in our house. I don't know if this is a modern trend or not, but I really don't know how people survived without all those books on how to feed themselves.
When I had my oldest I was bomberded with all kinds of books and pamphlets and "research" about how and when and how much he should eat. Yeah, OK.
May be I am too naive or too ignorant or too arrogant, but I think this food obsession is pretty unhealthy. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before....
Lena
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 23, 2012 10:14:39 GMT -5
Lena, sorry I was going off this quote: I think the point of de-emphasizing the emotional issues of food is a good one. The book I recommended does just that. Childhood obesity is very real (so obviously kids don't automatically self-regulate). The book talks about ways to help your child limit their intake without them getting neurotic/dieting. I was just trying to be helpful.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 23, 2012 10:14:47 GMT -5
May be I am too naive or too ignorant or too arrogant, but I think this food obsession is pretty unhealthy. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before....I agree with you but maybe we're both wrong DH and I often marvel at how much of our paychecks go to debt payments. Roughly $24,000 in debt (a little less than a fifth of what we make per year) translates into more than $1k of payments every month. Granted, I pay more than the minimum on everything... and almost half of that is my student loan... but still. I can't wait till we have everything paid off. Maybe next year... Not strictly relevant to the discussion but I just paid our bills so it was on my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 10:16:03 GMT -5
Both kids had a phase when they were toddlers where they just didn't eat much. My Pediatrician said not to look at each meal, but look at what they ate for the week and we would see that they indeed get all of the nutrition they need. Which is why I assumed Lena's doc would have been talking about babies/toddlers too. <--- has old school Ped too, apparently.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 23, 2012 10:22:19 GMT -5
My Pediatrician said not to look at each meal, but look at what they ate for the week and we would see that they indeed get all of the nutrition they need.
Which is why I assumed Lena's doc would have been talking about babies/toddlers too. Apparently my pediatrician is extremely old school as well. I determine when and what Gwen will eat. I let her determine how much and if. She's far from overweight or underweight so my pediatrican's old school advice seems to be working.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 23, 2012 10:23:40 GMT -5
What about when people are using food or spending for 'comfort' - if they are experiencing an emotion intensely - like intense angry or intense sadness or some other intense emotion - they may opt to eat that quart of icecream (get in the car at midnight to go get it even) OR do 'retail therapy' - buy stuff they don't really need (or want) in an effort to soothe/distract from the emotional state they are in. It seems sometime people's emotions can jump to intense pretty quickly (especially when their buttons get pressed).
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 23, 2012 10:24:14 GMT -5
SkinnyKids, you are right, I did say that I was concern about my youngest. My two oldest were small babies and my 3rd was 8lbs when he was born and by the time he was 6 mo he was ~ 24lbs, so yes, I was really worried. And that's when my pediatrician said that it will self-regulate bc that's what babies and small children do.
See, I think we have childhood obesity (and btw, it's STRICTLY my opinion, I really don't read books on this topic) is bc we, adults, un-teach them how to self-regulate. I've always fed my babies on demand. And to some extent I still do that with my toddlers. Now, yes, there is a breakfast, lunch, dinner thing going, but I don't force them to eat and I don't prompt them to eat during other times. Granted, my oldest is only 4, so who knows what will happen in 2-5-10 yrs. My DH and his family are all have tendencies for fattnes, so I will certainly be keeping an eye on my kids.
And if I came off snarky in any way, shape or form, I apologize, I really like your posts and your views. I guess it just irks me that it's yet another "industry" - how to teach kids to eat....
Lena
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 23, 2012 10:31:10 GMT -5
I'm not big on the idea that kids (or adults) just naturally 'self regulate' their eating - maybe babies and toddlers do - but at some point I think that ability fades away.
In my efforts to lose (and then maintain) my wieght I switched to smaller plates (9 inch diameter plate - that USE to be normal sized dinner plates - you know - back in the 1940's) I've seen intense dissappointment on the faces of the Big Folk when they have joined me for an impromptu lunch or dinner - cause the plates are too small - they'll still be hungry if they only eat what they can put on the 'small' plate. Don't worry - I now keep 4 11 inch diameter modern plates (aka platters) for when the Big Folk dine at my house.
The interesting part of this is not the plate size - so much as the Big Folk's response to the smaller plate - that they will still be hungry - before they've even eaten anything - if they only have the food that fits on the smaller plate. That's not one's body self regulating - that's a subjective perspective of 'how much food is enough'.
Meant to add - I think this kinda goes along with spending money as well - many people seem to equate needing to spend more to achieve an image. They have to have the Whatsit or wear the Big Name Brand - without really giving it much thought or looking for an alternative or maybe finding they are comfortable with something less or maybe with not buying the thing at all - that subjective perspective of what's 'enough' again.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 23, 2012 10:34:02 GMT -5
I bet this is circular too. Once you start getting heavy, maybe you don't want to go and do certain things - like anything physical, or anything where everyone is dressed up. So, now that you have cut certain activities out of your life, there is more time to fill, so now you are even more bored, so you eat a little more. And now you are uncomfortable going a few more places, so you decide to stay home instead - but you are bored, so you eat more. Etc. Etc.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 23, 2012 10:34:58 GMT -5
So, I came to US when I was 16 and since I didn't speak English, add another year or two to that of not communicating with people here - nowhere, between my family, friends, or anyone else where I came from, we ever talked about food and eating and how to eat and what to eat and how much. I didn't learn the word "diet" until I was in college and overhead some girls talking about it and had to look it up. That's why I say that I think it comes from adults and their own hang-ups about food, etc. Again, strictly my opinion.
Lena
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 23, 2012 10:37:32 GMT -5
I agree. My kids self-regulated as toddlers, even pre-schoolers to a point. But we are way past that. I've seen them eat for all the same reasons I eat - peer pressure, because it was there, because they were bored, because they were upset, habit, etc. My son was complaining, complaining, complaining that he was hungry the other day. I told him we were going to have an early dinner. He asked "How early, can we go now?!" So, we finished up what we were doing and 15 minutes later we headed out to get dinner. He struggled to eat any of it. I suspect he wasn't as hungry as he said he was. However, if I had put a bowl of halloween candy in front of him, I suspect he would have eaten 20 mini candy bars.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 23, 2012 10:42:03 GMT -5
I bet this is circular too. Once you start getting heavy, maybe you don't want to go and do certain things - like anything physical, or anything where everyone is dressed up. So, now that you have cut certain activities out of your life, there is more time to fill, so now you are even more bored, so you eat a little more. And now you are uncomfortable going a few more places, so you decide to stay home instead - but you are bored, so you eat more. Etc. Etc. I think at some point food starts to take a starring role in one's day... the less physically active you are OR the less stuff you are doing while being less active - the more time you need to fill and most people have a kitchen/fridge/pantry filled with yummy food and snacks OR adult beverages. I'm beginning to think it's not the consumption of sugary drinks that are making adults fat - part of it is their adult beverage consumption. I know lots of people who have 2 or 3 beers or a couple of glasses of wine (not the 6 ounce kind) when they get home from work - that's close to 500 calories for the 'light' beers and for the wine as well- not to mention the beverages they consume on Friday/Saturday night.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 23, 2012 10:49:23 GMT -5
Yes, there is definitely an emotional component to both eating and spending. I don't know if it's taught, or some kind of natural response. I mostly feel the emotional need around a major loss, like the death of our dogs or MIL. There is now a void there, and emotionally, we want to fill it. It seems like buying something new will do that, or we want comfort and most people associate food (certain foods specifically) with comfort. I have a friend whose family is English. She jokes that if her parents were told that the world was about to end, her mother would respond by making a pot of tea. She finds herself doing the same thing anytime she has a bad day, or any kind of stress- she makes a pot of tea. Now tea doesn't usually have calories, so it's a pretty good thing to turn to comfort wise, but a lot of us turn to other things. Chicken noodle soup isn't too bad, but how many of us got ice cream when we were sick (especially with a sore throat), or some other special treat when we hadn't been feeling well? If you were ever hospitalized as a kid, how many gifts did you get? As a society, we turn toward certain foods and toward giving things to comfort our children. As adults, we carry those associations. I'm not saying they rule our lives, but they are definitely there. And they are impulses that sneak up on us exactly when we are most vulnerable.
Very young children (infants and toddlers) do mostly self regulate. The biggest problems from childhood obesity don't really come from kids being bored (even though older kids will eat when bored) but comes from what the adults in their lives feed them. Kids can be fat and poor because their parents aren't able to provide sound nutritional meals. Eating from the dollar menu at McDonalds can be cheaper (in terms of money and time) for many families. Growing up, I rarely remember us having any kinds junk food in the house. If we had cookies, they were in a glass jar so my mom could see the level and we were never allowed more than two at a time. But for the most part, the easiest food to get in my house was fruit. Depsite living in MT (not exactly known for fresh local fruit) we had a bowl of fruit out year round. My brother and I never had to ask if we wanted a piece, we could just walk in and grab it. My mom bought tupperware orange peelers so that I could safely peel my own orange starting around kindergarten age. If we were at the grocery store and I wanted to try a new type of fruit, the answer was never no. And looking back on my childhood, there were many, many times when money was very tight for my parents, but always fruit, always yes to fruit. And my brother and I were skinny a** kids. (I didn't start gaining weight until puberty, my parents divorce, and my friends moving out of the neighborhood all hit within a year or so of each other.)
But for most of us, our spending habits and eating habits are all formed in childhood. A family can have a child who is a spender and one who is a saver, or one who overeats and one who doesn't. I think it is a combination of natural tendencies (I have no idea where they come from) and environment. But the habits and attitudes we form around money and food in our childhoods tend to stay with us the rest of our lives- even if we work consistently to change our actions.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 23, 2012 10:50:49 GMT -5
So, I came to US when I was 16 and since I didn't speak English, add another year or two to that of not communicating with people here - nowhere, between my family, friends, or anyone else where I came from, we ever talked about food and eating and how to eat and what to eat and how much. I didn't learn the word "diet" until I was in college and overhead some girls talking about it and had to look it up. That's why I say that I think it comes from adults and their own hang-ups about food, etc. Again, strictly my opinion. Lena I was actually agreeing with you - one's family (I hear alot about the 'clean plate club'), one's friends, and cultural pressures (eating alot at celebrations that seem to happen atleast once or twice a week) may send alot of worng messages to kids that helps them stop listening to whatever self regulation they have. There's a whole culture built around eating in America.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 23, 2012 10:54:30 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think it's not the consumption of sugary drinks that are making adults fat - part of it is their adult beverage consumption. I know lots of people who have 2 or 3 beers or a couple of glasses of wine (not the 6 ounce kind) when they get home from work - that's close to 500 calories for the 'light' beers and for the wine as well- not to mention the beverages they consume on Friday/Saturday night. What's wrong with that? Just skip dinner to make up for it
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 23, 2012 10:55:57 GMT -5
Lena, no worries. I was just afraid *I* had come across poorly. Sometimes in my hurry to get a post sent off I can be abrupt and be misunderstood. I agree with you that parents are the chief cause for childhood obesity. It never ceases to amaze me how often parents feed their kids. It's like they think if you go an hour without a snack the kid will keel over in starvation. I have the frustrating issue of trying to get more calories in my kids, but do it in a way that I don't breed poor eating habits in their adulthood. It's frustrating. I know I personally have food addiction issues and need to keep food as a strictly utilitarian thing to keep myself in check. I don't want them to deal with that. OTOH, I want them to grow and they need calories to do that. It's quite a balancing act.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 23, 2012 10:56:08 GMT -5
I have this in my house - I have one of those tiered bowls and I keep at least three kinds of fruit in it at all times. Who can't resist?!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 23, 2012 10:56:30 GMT -5
Now, I never said that we didn't talk about drinking. Opposite to never talking about food, there were all kinds of talk about dear ol' vodka - where to get it, how much to get it, who has money to get it, etc etc etc. Lena
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 23, 2012 11:09:53 GMT -5
I don't know about food taking a starring role- at least not for all people. I am morbidly obese. I rarely snack at home- partly because we don't have snacks in our house. DH knows that if a bag of chips comes through our door, he'll have emptied it within 24 hours, so we don't buy much snack food. I do snack at work. Not as much on days when I am either legitimately busy or busy here, but at work it's pretty easy. I have snack stuff in my drawers, other people have snack stuff out on their desks, or if I want a candy bar, there's a cafeteria and vending machines. But the focus of my life isn't food. And being morbidly obese does not mean I'm so big I can't fit in a seat at the movie theater. It doesn't mean I can't walk. I didn't get my drivers license until 25, and lived in a city with terrible public transportation. I used to walk everywhere- 3-5 miles per day depending on work and school schedule, and I still weighed 225lbs. I didn't have much money, so I didn't eat much, but what I did eat was completely unhealthy. Breakfast was a storebought bottle of chocolate milk (usually bought on my 1.5 mile walk to work), lunch was a can of coke and a bag of chips (free in the break room), dinner might be pasta and sauce from one of the food places on campus, or it might have been a microwave pizza. That's all I ate, all day long. While walking everywhere, and I gained weight. For that, I think we do go back to the link between depression- or at least mood -and weight gain. When I am unhappy or stressed, I will gain weight, no matter how little I eat or how many walks I take. When I am happy and unstressed, I lose weight. When we got married (almost 9 years ago) I was at the heaviest I had ever been at the time- about 255lbs (in that sense, I've only gained 10lbs in the last 9 years). We bought a new construction house that we moved into 8 weeks before the wedding. In the two months after the wedding, I lost over 20lbs, without changing a single part of my life, because the stress of everything we'd been doing was gone.
crone: I am so there with you with the feeling hungry. And that is a biological reaction. Science says our bodies want to be the heaviest they've ever been. One of the ways to achieve that is to make us feel hunger. Hunger is such a primal feeling that we are biologically inclined to respond to it. It takes, IMHO, more than just will power to ignore that feeling. Plateaus rob us of any feeling of accomplishment (and people reach these in debt payoff, too. Times when life hits them hard and they are unable to do anything other than tread water on their debt repayment or sometimes even backslide. Suddenly, the motivation starts backsliding, too.) We get none of the reward for all the good things we've been doing- and rewards matter. In that sense, I think it's important to build in our own rewards. I have minor milestones I've set in our debt repayment. We're down to SLs and the mortgage. At our current rate, none of those things will be gone in less than 5 years. 5 years is a long time. So I celebrate little things- getting to under $200k on the house (next year), getting to under $30k on the SLs (6 months from now), etc. Maybe you can build in rewards for yourself. And it doesn't have to be "I lost weight" it could simply be- I didn't gain weight. You know from your past that that is just as much a challenge as losing. Obviously, the reward can't be food, but maybe it could be a trip to the aquarium to smile at the otters, some fresh flowers from Pike's Place, or a Tuesday evening (I think Tuesdays are free) at SAM.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 23, 2012 11:13:52 GMT -5
24 hours? What takes you so long? I am the same way with snack foods - I just avoid keeping them in the house. My theory is the faster I eat them, the sooner they will be gone. As if taking in all the calories in one day is some sort of benefit.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 23, 2012 11:20:51 GMT -5
thyme: ;D DH has some willpower, so I give him 24 hours. And it does depend on the chips. Tortilla chips can go stale in our house (and then we make nachos with them). Original Doritos, no matter how big the bag, won't last 2 hours. We bought some sweet chili rice chips for me- he's divided them up into 100 calorie bags for me. So while he has snacked on some of those, in his mind, they are "mine" so he's better about not eating them. Or if he does, he can grab a 100 calorie bag and do fine. Pretzels are the one thing we've consistently allowed in the house, because the CostCo giant bags can last a month. We've stopped buying ice cream and instead by forzen yogurt bars (or the skinny cow ice cream sandwhiches) because they make portion control a no brainer.
I honestly say, I think the reason DH is so supportive of me being on this diet is that it gives him an excuse to use his kitchen scale tons more than he has in the preivous 3 years we've owned it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 11:33:04 GMT -5
Has anyone else read that it's very difficult to change several habits at once? Like it's much harder to lose weight and change money habits at the same time, instead of focusing on one or the other. What I read said something about how we only have so much mental energy to expend on the discipline needed to change habits and trying to focus on changing too many seperate things at once makes it almost impossible to really change any one thing. What do you all think about that?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 23, 2012 12:11:48 GMT -5
I believe that. I know if you go through a rehab program they tell you to only focus on being clean (or sober, or whatever.) Don't also focus on losing weight, working out, going back to school, getting the promotion, flossing, getting out of debt, entering a new relationship, etc. etc. So, I can see how a more singular focus can lead to success.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 23, 2012 13:07:07 GMT -5
Has anyone else read that it's very difficult to change several habits at once? Like it's much harder to lose weight and change money habits at the same time, instead of focusing on one or the other. What I read said something about how we only have so much mental energy to expend on the discipline needed to change habits and trying to focus on changing too many seperate things at once makes it almost impossible to really change any one thing. What do you all think about that? I believe this... it's even worse for those of us with the attention span of a gnat. I've learned to prioritize the changes I am working on (mostly because I can't seem to focus on any thing for any length of time). I always have one and only one A list change and then several B and C list changes. I bounce around alot between the A and the B's (C are things that will probably never get done.. and thats ok). When ever I find myself dealing with a B list item I step back and do my best to go back to the A list item. Took me lots and lots of time and effort to get tenative grasp on my lack of focus/easily distractedness so that I could remember to go back to the A item. Eventually, as I get the A thing down pat or done or whatever, a B item moves up into the A slot and the process continues I accomplish things very slowly in little tiny bites. But, I do move forward on the things that are important to me (the A item). LOL! I sometimes joke about how I can't figure out wht it's so hard for someone who can actually focus for more than 2 minutes on something to get stuff done -- ooooo look! a squirell!!
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