midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 12:42:00 GMT -5
Although you know, even married women shouldn't need things like STD tests... if they do, too bad, they should've chosen their partner more wisely.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 22, 2012 12:44:47 GMT -5
BTW - I'm not arguing that the population that believes that doesn't exist. I'm just arguing I don't believe they have the numbers to get bills like the one in TX passed once the abortion funding issue is off the table.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 12:48:21 GMT -5
It's a very valid question. I don't know the answer. I'd like to think that BC isn't as divisive an issue, but I really don't know...
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 22, 2012 12:49:03 GMT -5
I have now had THREE different face-to-face conversations with "fundie" types who as the conversation progressed told me that they are opposed to abortion because pregnancy is the righteous "shame" for having sex outside of marriage [because of course in their world a married woman would NEVER have an abortion ]. I also got one of them to admit that if a woman dies from an unsafe/illegal/backroom abortion (because in their world abortion would be made illegal again), then that is the "punishment" that woman deserves for defying God's laws. !!!!!!!! I need to stop engaging with fundies. I'm willing to bet that some of the conservative/fundie posters here feel the same way; they just don't have the guts to come out and say it because they would get used to wipe the floors if they admitted to such a thing.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 12:53:03 GMT -5
I would've been sorely tempted to ask what "shame" the men should endure...
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 22, 2012 12:58:38 GMT -5
I have now had THREE different face-to-face conversations with "fundie" types who as the conversation progressed told me that they are opposed to abortion because pregnancy is the righteous "shame" for having sex outside of marriage [because of course in their world a married woman would NEVER have an abortion ]. I also got one of them to admit that if a woman dies from an unsafe/illegal/backroom abortion (because in their world abortion would be made illegal again), then that is the "punishment" that woman deserves for defying God's laws. Yes, living in the Bible belt I've had that same discussion multiple times myself. They seem to think only teenage girls get pregnant, and if we banned abortion these girls would either raise the babies themselves or adopt them to loving couples. When I mention issues like mothers with medical problems that make having a baby a death sentence, they insist that women have to let God decide if they should live or die. Or when I mention the case of babies who won't survive outside the womb (a fetus without a brain, for instance) they insist no medical test is 100% correct, that the baby should be allowed to be born anyway, and God might create a miracle and let it survive. And if the mom dies giving birth to a baby that also dies - someone didn't pray hard enough. My argument is we shouldn't impose our religious beliefs on other people. Telling another woman she can't have an abortion and therefore can't have cancer treatments and what she needs to do is pray really hard that her cancer goes away goes against the American idea of religious freedom, IMHO.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 13:03:01 GMT -5
I have now had THREE different face-to-face conversations with "fundie" types who as the conversation progressed told me that they are opposed to abortion because pregnancy is the righteous "shame" for having sex outside of marriage [because of course in their world a married woman would NEVER have an abortion ]. I also got one of them to admit that if a woman dies from an unsafe/illegal/backroom abortion (because in their world abortion would be made illegal again), then that is the "punishment" that woman deserves for defying God's laws. Yes, living in the Bible belt I've had that same discussion multiple times myself. They seem to think only teenage girls get pregnant, and if we banned abortion these girls would either raise the babies themselves or adopt them to loving couples. When I mention issues like mothers with medical problems that make having a baby a death sentence, they insist that women have to let God decide if they should live or die. Or when I mention the case of babies who won't survive outside the womb (a fetus without a brain, for instance) they insist no medical test is 100% correct, that the baby should be allowed to be born anyway, and God might create a miracle and let it survive. And if the mom dies giving birth to a baby that also dies - someone didn't pray hard enough. My argument is we shouldn't impose our religious beliefs on other people. Telling another woman she can't have an abortion and therefore can't have cancer treatments and what she needs to do is pray really hard that her cancer goes away goes against the American idea of religious freedom, IMHO. Or she could have the chemo anyway and when the baby dies it is because they didn't pray hard enough. There realy is not talking to people who believe that they are right and the rest of the world has to just listen to them. The laws are the only way to allow us to ignore them. Now if we could find a way stopping them from writing laws.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 22, 2012 13:06:58 GMT -5
Sounds like medical necessity to me. So you'd have no problem with her aborting that fetus then, right? Now let's go with the next on the list..... A woman has found out that her fetus is incompatible with life. Let's throw another wrinkle into things in that she's also nearing the end of her fertility and a time period as little as 1 year would be enough to determine whether or not she can attempt to have a child. OK or not?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 22, 2012 13:07:11 GMT -5
I would've been sorely tempted to ask what "shame" the men should endure... It's not the boys fault the girls were succubuses. Men have no control you know. Boys will be boys.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 22, 2012 13:12:21 GMT -5
Would she even need to? Just have the chemo - nature will take care of the rest. Though it does raise the question - if Roe V. Wade does get overturned, do we then need to start prosecuting pregnant women for "child endangerment" or attempted murder if they engage in activity that is deemed unsuitable and a danger to the fetus?
The whole pregnant women and wine thread would need to be revisited. Would a bar tender be charged as an accessory?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 13:14:35 GMT -5
I would think the physical stress of gestating a fetus (or having a chemo-induced miscarriage) would downgrade the mother's prognosis... chemo is hard enough on the body as it is. And while I've never been pregnant, I understand that there is more to it than stretch marks and weird cravings, that your organs are also put under much more stress. (fighting the urge to make a Steel Magnolias reference)
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:15:40 GMT -5
I would think the physical stress of gestating a fetus (or having a chemo-induced miscarriage) would downgrade the mother's prognosis... chemo is hard enough on the body as it is. what if the chemo doesn't kill the fetus, just interferes with development so the resulting child is born horribly handicapped? No, that won't happen.........
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 22, 2012 13:16:18 GMT -5
prosecuting pregnant women for "child endangerment" or attempted murder if they engage in activity that is deemed unsuitable and a danger to the fetus?
That'd be a giant clusterfuck waiting to happen since it seems like "unsuitable" for the fetus changes every five minutes.
When I was pregnant it was BPA free only plastic. Two months after she was born GMA had a snippet about now pregnant women should not use ANY plastic containers at all.
So would I be grandfathered in since the rules were different when I was actually pregnant or could I be arrested after the fact?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 13:16:25 GMT -5
Well then, the mother will receive all the health benefits and food and housing subsidies she needs to take care of the little darling. Right?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:18:16 GMT -5
Well then, the mother will receive all the health benefits and food and housing subsidies she needs to take care of the little darling. Right? Of course. And everyone will step up and be oh so supportive and offer respite care for her, and money, and gifts, and she'll be living a sweet life!!!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:19:03 GMT -5
prosecuting pregnant women for "child endangerment" or attempted murder if they engage in activity that is deemed unsuitable and a danger to the fetus? That'd be a giant clusterfuck waiting to happen since it seems like "unsuitable" for the fetus changes every five minutes. When I was pregnant it was BPA free only plastic. Two months after she was born GMA had a snippet about now pregnant women should not use ANY plastic containers at all. So would I be grandfathered in since the rules were different when I was actually pregnant or could I be arrested after the fact? I had a glass of wine, lunchmeat, and pepsi while pregnant. I'm soooo going to jail.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 22, 2012 13:20:46 GMT -5
I had a glass of wine, lunchmeat, and pepsi while pregnant. I'm soooo going to jail. I'll be sitting in the cell next to you. Not only did I do most of the above and use plastic containers but I also ate canned tomatoes and ate my red meat practically raw (excluding ground beef).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:26:24 GMT -5
The Chemo would take care of that wouldn't, so then it would be considered a miscarriage. No, it probably wouldn't kill the fetus, but would severely damage it. IT would also hinder the mom's prognosis as both pregnancy and chemo are very hard on the body.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 22, 2012 13:27:36 GMT -5
Maybe she should have cut down on her sugar consumption and root canals, then she wouldn't have cancer and wouldn't have to be facing that decision.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 22, 2012 13:28:57 GMT -5
So a safe medical procedure to end a pregnancy - not in favor.
Engaging in behavior that could result in either the termination of the pregnancy or a deformed/disabled child - sure no problem.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 22, 2012 13:29:01 GMT -5
Would she even need to? Just have the chemo - nature will take care of the rest. Though it does raise the question - if Roe V. Wade does get overturned, do we then need to start prosecuting pregnant women for "child endangerment" or attempted murder if they engage in activity that is deemed unsuitable and a danger to the fetus? The whole pregnant women and wine thread would need to be revisited. Would a bar tender be charged as an accessory? So it's more humane to kill a fetus by slowly poisoning it (since chemo targets the rapidly replicating cells of a cancer - a fetus is also rapidly replicating cells) than aborting it?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 13:29:25 GMT -5
To me that seems worse than abortion. ETA Mich beat me to it!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 13:31:26 GMT -5
I had a glass of wine, lunchmeat, and pepsi while pregnant. I'm soooo going to jail. I'll be sitting in the cell next to you. Not only did I do most of the above and use plastic containers but I also ate canned tomatoes and ate my red meat practically raw (excluding ground beef). I would be in the next cell. I even used medication to make me feel better even though what I took it for wouldn't have actually killed me, just made me a raving lunatic before that kid came out.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 13:32:50 GMT -5
Maybe she should have cut down on her sugar consumption and root canals, then she wouldn't have cancer and wouldn't have to be facing that decision. What the heck is wrong with root canals?!?! Do we want everyone toothless?
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 22, 2012 13:33:10 GMT -5
No, not remotely, but my comment was more an exercise in a hypothetical than what I would personally support.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 22, 2012 13:34:36 GMT -5
What the heck is wrong with root canals?!?! Do we want everyone toothless?Ask Mich about that subject, but be prepared for flames to shoot out of her eyeballs.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 22, 2012 13:34:41 GMT -5
Maybe she should have cut down on her sugar consumption and root canals, then she wouldn't have cancer and wouldn't have to be facing that decision. What the heck is wrong with root canals?!?! Do we want everyone toothless? Haven't you heard? Root canals are bad because then you have a "dead" tooth in your mouth. And having something dead in your body is very, very bad. (So be sure to rinse with peroxide!) Just add that to the list of things you do that make you a horrible person
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 13:35:29 GMT -5
You guys are getting way to wrapped around the axle here. The OP is Stating TX can not support planned Parent hood because it provides elective abortions. Its simple go someplace else and get them or PP loses funding. We aren't arguing if abortions should be legal and who gets them. Try and stay on track here. Yes we are because this is a back door way to outlaw all abortions. For the vast majority of people PP is the ONLY place they have to get their medical needs met including abortion.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 22, 2012 13:35:50 GMT -5
You guys are getting way to wrapped around the axle here. The OP is Stating TX can not support planned Parent hood because it provides elective abortions. Its simple go someplace else and get them or PP loses funding. We aren't arguing if abortions should be legal and who gets them. Try and stay on track here. You don't seem to understand, Rick. You cannot go to your local gynecologist and say you want an abortion. Most do not do the procedure. You need to go to one of the few places that you can get the procedure done......like PP. And like I said in an earlier post, there are only 3 places where you can get an abortion in KY - and none of them are in the city where I live.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:35:54 GMT -5
Maybe she should have cut down on her sugar consumption and root canals, then she wouldn't have cancer and wouldn't have to be facing that decision. No, silly, all she had to do was pray harder.
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