GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 22, 2012 9:20:37 GMT -5
OP says that her DB was the sole earner in his family throughout his marriage to her DSIL.
Now, 20, 30 years later, DB wants his DW to get a full-time job (it would have to be to qualify for benefits) to cover their health insurance so he can cut back/find a new job/find a new career.
The DB's request, in and of itself, is not so outrageous. But, he needs to understand that in this economy, a 53 year old woman with no job experience for the past 20 or 30 years is going to have a really hard time finding full-time work. Yes, she should try, but her DH shouldn't put all his eggs in that basket until she finds the job, kwim?
And on a related note, we all need to give each other a break. SAHPs, WPs: I don't care. We each need to do what works for our own family. Neither way is perfect, neither way is wrong. EACH approach has its strengths, and EACH approach has its weaknesses. We need to be really careful to NOT belittle or demonize each other's choices or the contributions made to each other's families through the choices we each make. Neither group is more pious than the other.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 22, 2012 9:23:02 GMT -5
We need to be really careful to NOT belittle or demonize each other's choices But if we stopped doing that, YM would implode.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 22, 2012 9:25:24 GMT -5
;D
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 22, 2012 9:26:29 GMT -5
We need to be really careful to NOT belittle or demonize each other's choices But if we stopped doing that, YM would implode. Exactly. We just can't stop ourselves from flaying those who must have that $70,000 gas hog mammoth SUV. Those demon devil SUV's.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 22, 2012 9:35:12 GMT -5
We need to be really careful to NOT belittle or demonize each other's choices But if we stopped doing that, YM would implode. Exactly. We just can't stop ourselves from flaying those who must have that $70,000 gas hog mammoth SUV. Those demon devil SUV's. Oh, you mean the "$70,000 gas hog mammoth SUV" that both parents have to work to pay for?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 22, 2012 9:39:13 GMT -5
If you guys don't think I don't bitch about DFs 70k plus gas hog, you'd be very wrong. But he feels free to bitch about my Japanese car that gets decent gas mileage and didn't cost an obscene amount so we are even, hell, his car cost more than my first house!
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 22, 2012 10:19:25 GMT -5
I'm trying to return to work PT this fall after almost 8 years as a SAHM. I'm 39. I'll lose 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes, and I'm estimating I'll make $10-$12/hr just based on CL ads. Before/after school care (and care for the zillion school holidays) will probably eat up most of my remaining 2/3s wage. DH is used to me doing 95% of the work at home and it will be really hard for him to step up after all these years. I'm definitely feeling intimidated to return and worry about the skills I've lost. This will not be an easy adjustment for everyone.
That said, I'm hoping after a year or two my wages will increase. And that the family will figure out all the lumps and bumps. In the long term it will be better. I don't plan to work FT until the kids are gone most likely, because I agree with all the pp that kids need you around MORE as they get older. I can't believe all the driving I do for them now and they are in elementary school. MS & HS must be insane.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Aug 22, 2012 10:22:33 GMT -5
I was a SAHP until DD1 was nearly 15 and DD2 was 11. I deiced to go back to work FT because I knew we needed money to pay for college in a few years and, to me, dinner out was NOT the dollar menu at Bk or Golden Arches.
Another/2 thing I see NO ONE considering here.
1) When I was growing up I saw sevral families where the working Dad died while kids were still in grade or high school. Mom had NO skills or experience but needed to earn at least a portion of their expenses. No skill jobs (office/waitressing) pay VERY poorly.
2) My DH became disabled when DD1 was a sophmore in college. We lost 40% of our household income even after disability checks started coming. Without my income ...............forclosure, food stamps, no more college..............
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2012 10:26:06 GMT -5
I wonder if he works for my company.
(a) I know two. (b) I would like to introduce you to a thing called hyperbole.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 22, 2012 11:34:05 GMT -5
I'm trying to return to work PT this fall after almost 8 years as a SAHM. I'm 39. I'll lose 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes, and I'm estimating I'll make $10-$12/hr just based on CL ads. Before/after school care (and care for the zillion school holidays) will probably eat up most of my remaining 2/3s wage. DH is used to me doing 95% of the work at home and it will be really hard for him to step up after all these years. I'm definitely feeling intimidated to return and worry about the skills I've lost. This will not be an easy adjustment for everyone. That said, I'm hoping after a year or two my wages will increase. And that the family will figure out all the lumps and bumps. In the long term it will be better. I don't plan to work FT until the kids are gone most likely, because I agree with all the pp that kids need you around MORE as they get older. I can't believe all the driving I do for them now and they are in elementary school. MS & HS must be insane. Thank you, skinnykids, for putting into words, so eloquently, my current situation as well.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 22, 2012 11:43:05 GMT -5
A slightly different perspective, if I may:
Not every SAHP stays home and does lunch with the girls, gets manis and pedis and spa treatments, has a housekeeper and a nanny and a yard boy.
Some of us stay home because it is necessary given our then current family situation.
In staying home out of necessity, some of us walk away from potentially very lucrative professional careers -- often with reservations and sadness and a significant sense of loss. Some of us worked for years and went to school for years to get where we *were*. But, family needs took priority because *SOME* things you just can't hire out.
It wasn't the plan when we started our families, but, as someone so eloquently put it, we "put our big girl panties on" and take the career hit to take care of our families' unique needs.
Down the road, those of us who stayed home for 10 years or more out of necessity and who now need/want to return to work, face incredible odds.
Long story short, gross over-generalizations and assumptions and foregone conclusions just serve to perpetuate the "Mommy wars" -- sometimes I think for the benefit of men.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2012 11:45:14 GMT -5
Most people don't think this. The only people that really say this are SAHMs who accuse working moms of saying this. It is bullshit.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 22, 2012 11:47:57 GMT -5
Most people don't think this. The only people that really say this are SAHMs who accuse working moms of saying this. It is bullshit. We are so NOT wealthy, but there are a fair number of wealthy families in our area. What I described is not so uncommon in my neck of the woods, so I assumed it wasn't so uncommon elsewhere. Mea culpa.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 22, 2012 12:42:34 GMT -5
...:::"Fair point. I really meant "not everyone deals with conflict by talking to the person who's causing it and saying 'something needs to change here honey bun.'"":::...
Nor does every "honey bun" in said situation respond with "OK sure, lets tweak the system".
Sometimes the response is pretty much "Well I hear what you are saying, it sucks you are unhappy, but I like things the way they are and I'm not changing".
Its not fun when you hear it, and it really limits your options, as well as your willingness to keep giving.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 22, 2012 12:56:35 GMT -5
...:::"Or....I'm tired of this shit...I want a divorce.":::...
I'm sure that is exactly what she'd want. I wonder how she'd pay for her attorney with no money? Presumably at that point, their assets would be consumed in the process, which I'm sure would suit the BIL just fine. He's going to lose them anyway, I'm sure he'd rather they go to the attorney than to her.
...:::"Those demon devil SUV's.":::...
Man, I just want to be able to pull into a parking spot without some giant bus right up against the line preventing me from getting out. I want to be able to back out of the space and actually SEE if any other cars are coming before I pull out so far I'll get hit. Those damn mirrors are so far out, there is no way to duck around them! Compensators they are!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 22, 2012 13:01:05 GMT -5
...:::"Those demon devil SUV's.":::...
Man, I just want to be able to pull into a parking spot without some giant bus right up against the line preventing me from getting out. I want to be able to back out of the space and actually SEE if any other cars are coming before I pull out so far I'll get hit. Those damn mirrors are so far out, there is no way to duck around them! Compensators they are! "
DH drives a tiny little Mini Cooper and I HATE driving on the freeway in it. Between the giant SUV's and the trucks, I feel like a minnow swimming with whales.
DH claims the MC is so nimble it can zip away from an SUV and avoid getting crushed. I'm not so sure...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 22, 2012 13:04:20 GMT -5
Sometimes the response is pretty much "Well I hear what you are saying, it sucks you are unhappy, but I like things the way they are and I'm not changing".
Its not fun when you hear it, and it really limits your options, as well as your willingness to keep giving.
Granted. I just personally can't imagine being married to someone that selfish. It's one thing to reply with "I hear what you're saying but this is necessary for our situation now because X, so let's try to figure out what we can do differently to make you happier" but basically telling your partner to piss off and keep being miserable because you like the status quo is just a really... unfortunate approach to what is *supposed* to be a partnership.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 22, 2012 13:04:25 GMT -5
I'm trying to return to work PT this fall after almost 8 years as a SAHM. I'm 39. I'll lose 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes, and I'm estimating I'll make $10-$12/hr just based on CL ads. Before/after school care (and care for the zillion school holidays) will probably eat up most of my remaining 2/3s wage. DH is used to me doing 95% of the work at home and it will be really hard for him to step up after all these years. I'm definitely feeling intimidated to return and worry about the skills I've lost. This will not be an easy adjustment for everyone. That said, I'm hoping after a year or two my wages will increase. And that the family will figure out all the lumps and bumps. In the long term it will be better. I don't plan to work FT until the kids are gone most likely, because I agree with all the pp that kids need you around MORE as they get older. I can't believe all the driving I do for them now and they are in elementary school. MS & HS must be insane. Thank you, skinnykids, for putting into words, so eloquently, my current situation as well. Girls, I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and tell you not to sell yourselves short. True story - about 10 years ago I needed a tax clerk. Requirements were the typical "attention to detail, well organized, yadda, yadda, yadda". I had several applicants, including some with associates. The lady I hired was in her late 50's, had been a stay at home mom for over 25 years and was going back to work to shore up their retirement. What caught my eye was how she sold herself - was once a paralegal and parlayed that experience into managing and directing the finances and fundraising efforts of her church and PTA. She listed her accomplishements (increased donations by x% on average each year over an X year period). Set up mailing lists and increased active participation in numerious committees by X number of members. In short, she had it together, knew how to acheive results, and was detail focued. She worked for me for three good years until her husband was relocated. She was quickly able to find a new job and eventually went on the manage the sales tax function for the company she worked for. Your skills are useful and valuable. Don't sell yourselves short in the marketing department!
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 22, 2012 15:38:56 GMT -5
...:::"but basically telling your partner to piss off and keep being miserable because you like the status quo is just a really... unfortunate approach to what is *supposed* to be a partnership":::...
I suppose it also depends on how often this is the response. Almost every poster here has mentioned at least one particular issue that they themselves might tell their spouses to piss off over. But if EVERY request is met with "no way" or "not unless I come out ahead", then yeah... very unfortunate. Your spouse is essentially telling you that they are fine with you being miserable so long as they don't have to change.
...:::"DH drives a tiny little Mini Cooper and I HATE driving on the freeway in it. Between the giant SUV's and the trucks, I feel like a minnow swimming with whales.":::...
We'll make sure cawiau knows this before buying one (even if he is buying the not-so-mini mini). And hahahahahhahaahahhaa on minnow with whales!
...:::"Girls, I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and tell you not to sell yourselves short.":::...
Excellent advice!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 15:48:25 GMT -5
I do tell my husband to piss off fairly frequently, about the annoying details of life... But if he comes to me and says he is unhappy and can't take his job anymore.. That's not the kind of issue you respond to flippantly... I don't think...
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comom1
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Post by comom1 on Aug 22, 2012 17:57:16 GMT -5
There is a happy medium. I worked part time for years. I work for a company that provides family insurance coverage for part and full-time workers. I don't make a huge salary, but I love my job and I can work more hours if I choose. It gives me the ability to take care of our rentals and help out now and then with watching the grandkids.
UPS and United Airlines both offer full benefits to part-timers. I believe Costco and Starbucks do as well. Most of these jobs start at around ten bucks an hour, but the healthcare coverage makes it a much better paycheck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 9:27:12 GMT -5
Sending a 50-something spouse back to the workforce after 20 years out of it is a bit of an odd request for the BIL. She can probably earn 10-20% of what he makes IF she can even sell herself into a job. Family health insurance isn't 'free' anywhere, so that will take a chunk more out of her earnings. Nothing she does is going to suddenly allow him to quit his job.
Maybe he needs to be a little more communicative on what his strategy is. "I need you to get a job for the benefits because I am going to cut my hours back & so I'll probably get fired. Between unemployment, your small paycheck & benefits, we'll be able to squeak by while I look for another job." She might have a different response if it was said that way.
Really, in the described family situation, he needs to spend some time looking for a new job instead of 12 hour days.
**And those of you re-quoting Taxman aren't doing me any favors. I have him on ignore so I don't have to get riled up with his strongly stated opinions. **
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 27, 2012 15:04:03 GMT -5
But if he has taken a 25% paycut, and she goes back and earns (let's say) 15% of what he earns - then their household income has gone down 10%, not 25%. Plus, in a few years - maybe she will make 30%. The OP indicated he was making less money - so I think asking her to go back to work was to supplement his income, not replace it. Maybe he wants to switch careers to be in the ministry, and that would make him happy, but he would take a permanent 50% paycut. However, she could earn 25% of his current income, and they could continue life with minor tweaks.
Just because someone is unhappy doesn't mean they want to just go home and watch TV and never work again. And any additional income might be the difference between "okay" and "homeless."
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 27, 2012 15:41:53 GMT -5
Maybe. It's also possible he's been trying to push her into the workforce for the last 15 years, but now he's facing a pay cut and she really needs to get back into it. None of us were there behind those closed doors for the last couple decades to hear what's really been going on.
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nittanycheme
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Post by nittanycheme on Aug 27, 2012 21:09:44 GMT -5
Not necessarily. My aunt actually did that, although I think she was slightly younger (late 40's). She didn't need to work for insurance, but my uncle wanted her to work to be able to save more money for retirement mostly. He worked as an accountant, and saw the writing on the wall about pensions, so he wanted to work for somewhere where she could put money into a 401(k), so they could save more than just a spousal IRA. She didn't have a long work history on her own, and while they could save a certain amount with him working, I think he was worried what would happen to her if he died. I mean, I have no idea what his pension would be, but most pensions have a reduced outlay when the primary person dies, and she would only get 50% of his SS, so her guaranteed monthly income would be a lot less. So it may be to her benefit to work too. I'm assuming if his company was bought like that, if there was any type of pension it was probably frozen.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 28, 2012 7:10:05 GMT -5
"Just because someone is unhappy doesn't mean they want to just go home and watch TV and never work again. And any additional income might be the difference between "okay" and "homeless." "
Yes from what I understand BIL doesn't want to quit working completely. He has a sales job and for most of his working life he loved it, it was a smally family business with a relaxed atmosphere, he didn't make a huge amount of money but enough to pay the bills and allow his wife to be a SAHM. Now a national chain bought them up and his sales job has become extremely high pressure, very long hours and a demand that he 'prove' himself every day, at a time in his life when he thought he would be in a slow jog to retirement. He doesn't want to quit work completely, he just wants to quit that job. Probably as a salesman he's thinking he could work someplace else on a commission basis only, but probably without healthcare benefits. So if his wife got a full time job that covered their insurance, together their incomes would be equal to his current paycheck.
As to whether BIL wanted his wife to work over the years - I know originally their game plan was that she would go back to work when the kids were in school. However somewhere in those early years SIL became very militant about working women. She wanted women with kids to be required to stay home, unless their DH was unable to work. She lectured me constantly about the dangers of latch key kids, how kids in daycare don't know who their mommy is, etc etc. So when her youngest started full time school she didn't go back to work. I don't know how her DH felt about that, he never commented about it in front of me. SIL has said now and then when her youngest graduated she would look for a job; this last family gathering was the first time she said she wasn't going to even try. Again I don't know how BIL feels about that, only what SIL says about it.
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Colleenz
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Post by Colleenz on Aug 28, 2012 7:33:56 GMT -5
Personally I think women like this are just milking their husbands. A couple of generations ago before washing machines, dishwashers etc. when Moms had 8+ kids then Mom needed to stay home to keep the house running. I can see the argument for staying home with babies and toddlers, but by school age they should be doing more with friends. I think latch key promotes maturity.
But those are only my opinions. Every couple has to negotiate what works for them and their value system. It's a tough road when you go into a marriage with one understanding of how things will work, but then one partner changes their mind. I hope they work it out.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 28, 2012 7:51:04 GMT -5
Gosh, both my kids went to daycare and they still know I'm their mom.
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WholeLottaNothin
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Post by WholeLottaNothin on Aug 28, 2012 8:02:19 GMT -5
My son knows I'm his mommy too and he is 15 months and I work full time. That is just something people say to justify their decision to themselves as much as the people around them. I find that offensive and inconsiderate. We couldn't live for too long without my income as I am the breadwinner so I did what was necessary by going back to work.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 28, 2012 8:43:33 GMT -5
my kids and I liked eating, having clothes to wear and a nice place to live in a good school district/area. For those things, I needed to work. They also liked having health insurance. Well, I liked them having it!
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