Mommy wars phase II

[happyhoix]

Ok I realize I might be opening up the mommy wars can of worms again, but something my SIL said this weekend is bugging me.

SIL is one of those millitant SAHM's - ever since I've known her she's complained loudly about working moms and how they are abandoning their kids. I can't count how many times she complained about all the women in her area that were selfish and worked just to be able to afford a fancy house, nice vacations, yadda yadda yadda. (I've always been a working mom. My strategy with SIL has been to smile and not argue with her when she goes off on these rants.)

So fast forward to today, her two older kids are grown and out of the house, her 'baby' just started HS. At a family party this weekend the subject of retiring came up. SIL mentioned that her DH is miserably unhappy at his job. For his whole career he worked for a small local company that was recently purchased by a major national company and his life has become hell. He's in sales and his income has dropped significantly. So BIL is apparently pushing SIL to find a full time job with medical insurance benefits so that he can retire and find a less stressful part time job. (BIL is close to 60, SIL is 53).

SIL said "I'm not finding a job until DS has graduated from HS (in 3 years). At that point, I'll be too old and no one will hire me." SIL acted like her DH's suggestion was laughable.

All this is rhetorical, of course, because I would never ever offer SIL and BIL any advise at all. EVER. But it made me wonder what the 'cut off' was to being a SAHS. Do you need to do it all the way through HS? Does being a SAHS make you unemployable? Does the SAHS have any obligation to the non-SAHS to help carry the financial load once the kids are old enough to be self sufficient? What if the non-SAHS has a soul sucking job?

I think my SIL's motivation is she wants to now be a full time grandma. I understand, and I would like to do that, too (when I get a grandkid). However, the bills need to be payed. Her DH has been the only breadwinner for their whole marriage. I think it's time SIL helped out a little. BIL isn't asking her to earn what he earned. Only to get a job that covers their medical insurance. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[raeoflyte]

Definitely doesn't sound unreasonable, but doesn't sound like he'll get what he wants either.

I have heard from a few people that they felt it was more important to have a spouse home with the kids in middle/high school than for the infant/toddler years that they can't remember anyway. I hope that I can be the one at home/working at home when my kids hit that age, or that dh and I can find a split shift that keeps working for us so that one of us is home before/after school.

I don't think there is a cut off, but both spouses need to actively communicate and be a team on figuring out what works best. I really dislike the idea that dad's are only paychecks and can't bond the same way as mom's do. My son is totally a mama's boy by nature, but we at least aren't encouraging that through nurture.

[Deleted]

I plan on doing it all through High School, but then i homeschool. If I sent them to public school, and we could afford for me to be home, i probably still would be, because i'd want to be around when they were off school, those are the heightened hours for 'getting into trouble'... That said, if my husband came to me right now (8th and 6th grades) and said his job was too stressfull and he needed to take a break, i'd dust off my resume tonight and we'd start planning how we were going to make it all work...

Being SAH can make you less employable if you don't keep up with technology/trends, etc. I have actually been slacking, i used to vollunteer a lot and still take workshops/classes... i haven't the last few years, so i may need to take/do something this year so that i still keep up resume skills... depends on the job if i could step right back into it...

[swasat]

I am a working mom like you happyhoix. I am also one of those women who hate to be a taken care of by someone else. So take it FWIW.

But it made me wonder what the 'cut off' was to being a SAHS.

Do you need to do it all the way through HS? Depends on the situation. But if my DH is so desperately unhappy at his job or if my family hits dire financials then HECK NO. Find a job ASAP

Does being a SAHS make you unemployable? Depends on the industry. On an average though I firmly believe that more years you are away from workforce, the more unemployable you become

Does the SAHS have any obligation to the non-SAHS to help carry the financial load once the kids are old enough to be self sufficient? A resounding YES.

What if the non-SAHS has a soul sucking job? Then a definite, heartfelt, resounding YES!! If its a marriage then its a partnership. I hate the idea of DH sucking it up all the time just so I can have what I want.


Now all the SAHM moms on this board can have a go at me.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It's up to the individual couple, if the working spouse is unhappy then that person needs to voice it and work with the non-working spouse to create a new plan.

Your BIL must be getting something out of having your SIL stay home and continue to do so, otherwise things would have changed by now. Clearly the system is working for her so why would she have any reason to change it? We can all argue that she s hould just do it out of the goodness of her heart but we also know that most people aren't wired that way.

If the BIL is as unhappy as the SIL claims, then BIL needs to put on his big boy pants and tell his wife they need to go back to being some semblance of a dual income household OR work with her so they can absorb him switching jobs while she continues to stay home.

[swamp]

Aug 21, 2012 9:58:40 GMT -5 swasat said:

I am a working mom like you happyhoix. I am also one of those women who hate to be a taken care of by someone else. So take it FWIW.

But it made me wonder what the 'cut off' was to being a SAHS.

Do you need to do it all the way through HS? Depends on the situation. But if my DH is so desperately unhappy at his job or if my family hits dire financials then HECK NO. Find a job ASAP

Does being a SAHS make you unemployable? Depends on the industry. On an average though I firmly believe that more years you are away from workforce, the more unemployable you become

Does the SAHS have any obligation to the non-SAHS to help carry the financial load once the kids are old enough to be self sufficient? A resounding YES.

What if the non-SAHS has a soul sucking job? Then a definite, heartfelt, resounding YES!! If its a marriage then its a partnership. I hate the idea of DH sucking it up all the time just so I can have what I want.


Now all the SAHM moms on this board can have a go at me.

[Deleted]

You know why wars get perpetuated... because one side assumes that the other side is already against them... I doubt most SAHM will 'go at you' ....

[Deleted]

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

[Taxman10]

the problem with working mothers is that they put their "careers" ahead of their families. Then they wonder why their kids end up in jail, or on drugs, and such.

it's really a shame that some people can be so selfish.

a mother's career should be taking care of her family.

[Phoenix84]

You've asked quite a few quesitons, so let me take a deep breath and try to answer them all.

1. Well, personally I can't see the justification for having a full time SAHP after the kids are in school full time, so in practice, that's the "cutoff" to me. But I guess the "cutoff" is what the parties agree too. But situations change and people change, so "the plan" needs to be adaptable.

2. No, I don't think you need to do it all the way through highschool. Most teenagers don't want to be with their parents anyway.

3. I don't think being a SAHS makes you unemployable, but it might make it more difficult to find a job. Depends on other factors. But you'll never know until you try.

4. In my opinion, both adults have a responsibility to provide for the family, no if's and's or buts. If one parent can't do it for whatever reason, the other picks up the slack, period, end of story. Your highest calling as a parent is to feed, house, and clothe your kids. My advice to people to think otherwise is to get over what you think your life should be like or how things are supposed to me, suck it up, put on your big boy/girl pants and work to support your family.

5. If the primary earner is in a bad job, the whole family should try and plan an exit strategy. If the family really loves and supports the breadwinner, they will step up to the plate to plan and execute the exit strategy. If I expressed my concerns and my wife gave me that response, I'd treat it as a major betrayal.

[happyhoix]

Aug 21, 2012 10:38:32 GMT -5 Taxman10 said:

the problem with working mothers is that they put their "careers" ahead of their families. Then they wonder why their kids end up in jail, or on drugs, and such.

it's really a shame that some people can be so selfish.

a mother's career should be taking care of her family.

OK - pot stirring!!!

[midjd]

I agree with Phoenix.

[archrival]

A SAHM that stayed home long enough to see their multiple kids go off and graduate from high school have little incentive to start working again.

Not that I agree that a long term SAHM couldn't get out there and work, but I can understand why they would maintain the status quo and remain at home...

[happyhoix]

Aug 21, 2012 10:06:39 GMT -5 oped said:

You know why wars get perpetuated... because one side assumes that the other side is already against them... I doubt most SAHM will 'go at you' ....

I agree, and my intent in this was not to make it a SAHM fight against working moms fight. Normally I think it's up to the couple to find out what works best for both of them.

What bothered me about this wasn't really the whole SAHM thing vs working mom thing, but her whole attitude towards her DH - she admitted he was really struggling with the new ownership, he works 12 hours a day plus weekends and is very stressed, and yet she wasn't going to even make an effort to at least investigate what she might do to help him out.

I like my BIL, he's a hard worker, he's managed to support her and their kids all these years, I think she should be more motivated to help him.

[CarolinaKat]

Personally I think you have to work this crap out as a family. What works for your family is what you should do. You should then proceed to rasie healthy happy well-adusted kids to the best of your ability in a loving home.

THEN you should be appreciative and supportive of everyone else who is rasing healthy happy well-adusted kids to the best of their ability in a loving home no matter how differently or similarly they are doing it to your family's plan.

[thyme4change]

I've worked my kids' entire lives, however, I'm starting to think they need me more than ever. Granted I'm approaching the middle school age. But, I can imagine wanted to be around more in high school. The thing with that age - you never know when they will need to talk. If they come home from school at 2 o'clock and something is on their mind, they might all that information on you - but if you don't get home until 5:30, the window may have closed.

That said - my sisters were both SAHM until the high school graduation. My one sister went back to college for another bachelors degree while my neice was in high school. My sister thought that she would be employable - but she can't even get a bite. I guess no one wants a 50 year old entry level person in the worst economy ever. My other sister considered going into teaching or something, but decided she didn't want to deal with it, so she volunteers.

I think everyone is employable - but you have to really put yourself out there. If you are desperate and willing to take anything you will eventually find something. I've seen enough people get employed when their backs are up against a wall. However, the SIL of the OP will always feel that her husband is obligated to cover the bills - even after her kids move out and move on. So, no, she won't ever be employed.

[Abby Normal]

Not all moms were meant to be sahm moms. It doesn't make them bad moms. Nor does being a SAHM automatically make you a good mom.

There are plenty of SAHM that basically ignore their kids when someone else is around because they need adult interaction and are tired of being with the kids all the time.
There are plenty of working moms that give their kids their undivided attention when they get home from work.
Not everyone has the option of being a SAHP for financial reasons.

You have to do what works best for you and your family- period. Cause if Momma aint happy- ain't nobody happy.

[Deleted]

I think there are no one-size-fits theory for every family. To each their own strategy that works for a family.. My hat is off to both the working mom and the one who doesn't.. I am sure there are two income family homes that are just as dysfunctional as the home where the mom stays at home and vice versa. There are no perfect family situations, but there are good ones.. Good is relative to what works well and basic needs are met, body, soul and spirit.

[Deleted]

happy... i wasn't referencing you, but swasat's comment that SAHM's would jump all over post #3...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I like my BIL, he's a hard worker, he's managed to support her and their kids all these years, I think she should be more motivated to help him.

He married her and I doubt that he is unaware of her intent to stay home no matter what.

What he gets otu of the deal, I am not sure, but he must be getting something because she wouldn't be so cocky if she wasn't sure her position was secured.

[Deleted]

Also, I agree with you, as I said, if husband came home today and said he couldn't take it any more, we'd be planning a new path and i'd be dusting off my resume ...

[thyme4change]

By the way - after more than a decade of being retired, both my parents were offered paying jobs. Granted they were minimum wage jobs. The job they offered my Dad was to collect entrance fees for the museum where he volunteers.

I know a lady who stayed home with her kids for 10 years while her husband worked in real estate. Shortly after the real estate crash, she got a job the Children's Museum. She worked that 'ticket taking' type of job for a very short time, and now is working her way through the ranks. It appears that museum is being run by former SAHMs. I doubt it is huge money - but every bit helps. But, more importantly, she now has recent work experience. If she needs to, she could jump into a corporation or small business of some sort and increase her income.

[midjd]

5. If the primary earner is in a bad job, the whole family should try and plan an exit strategy. If the family really loves and supports the breadwinner, they will step up to the plate to plan and execute the exit strategy.

I agree with this the most, I think. DH and I don't have kids so the SAHP dynamic doesn't really apply. But during times when he's been really stressed out at his job, I've told him he can quit and we'll make it work, and if the roles were reversed, he'd say the same. We are a team, and both of us are prepared to step up to do what is needed to keep the "team" solvent and happy. Isn't that what marriage is supposed to be?

[cronewitch]

My mom stayed home until the last kid finished HS. Then she worked 20 years for the post office. Dad worked hard to support us but his legs were too bad to keep working soon after mom started. So he quit trying before he was 60 and mom supported him for years. She didn't want to work but had promised to find a job after the kids were raised so she did. She earned her pension and retired at 60 and took care of dad in his final years, now she has been widowed 20 years.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

My sister is a SAHM of 4 kids, she quit her job as a satellite software engineer after her third child was born (they were born at 2 year intervals). She had a 4th child. She was making a near 6 figure income when she left the workforce back in 1998, about the same her DH was making.

I will give her this, between 4 kids and their activities, once they hit school she was busier than ever. Her oldest just left for college.

Despite the fact that once upon a time she held a high priority, top secret position (the security clearance she needed to go through was outrageous), the ONLY positions she has been able to acquire have been lower paying jobs. She's worked at Gymboree, Kohl's and she's currently working for a landscape company, planting plants. So she's brought in money, just not the amount that she'd have been able to bring in had she continued her career.

She has been looking for a comparable job (and yes, she has kept up her skills) for easily 6-7 years now, with very few bites. At this point, it's unlikely that she'd ever be able to acquire a job that included benefits like health insurance and retirement.

[happyhoix]

Aug 21, 2012 10:57:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I like my BIL, he's a hard worker, he's managed to support her and their kids all these years, I think she should be more motivated to help him.

He married her and I doubt that he is unaware of her intent to stay home no matter what.

What he gets otu of the deal, I am not sure, but he must be getting something because she wouldn't be so cocky if she wasn't sure her position was secured.

When the kids were younger it worked for her to be a SAHP - they had three kids, they had a big garden so she was able to spend time canning/freezing the veggies, she was able to volunteer at the schools, etc. Back then, he was the highest paid sales guy at his company, he enjoyed his job, they weren't wealthy but the bills got paid.

What's changed is the job. If his nice friendly well paying boss hadn't sold his company to this big national company, I think everything would continue as it always has. But suddenly BIL is miserable, working twice as many hours for less pay, always stuggling to meet quotas.

I guess what bothered me was how flippant she was when talking about it. She admitted he was miserably unhappy and wanted to retire early but laughed about how that wouldn't happen. Wasn't even pretending that she would try to do anything about it. I felt like she was behaving in a very cold manner towards someone who had done so much for her.

[Plain Old Petunia]

Aug 21, 2012 10:50:55 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

What bothered me about this wasn't really the whole SAHM thing vs working mom thing, but her whole attitude towards her DH - she admitted he was really struggling with the new ownership, he works 12 hours a day plus weekends and is very stressed, and yet she wasn't going to even make an effort to at least investigate what she might do to help him out.

Yes, it really sounds as though she is not his partner. That's very unfortunate for him.

I think you are wise to stay out of it.

[thyme4change]

and yes, she has kept up her skills

Can I ask how she kept up her skills as a high priority, top secret, satellite engineer?

The problem with many jobs is being the treasurer of the PTA for 6 years doesn't really qualify you to return to your CFO position.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'd fully agree with you that she's a bitch. I am just saying that I doubt he is unaware of how she thinks and if she wasn't sure she had his balls in his purse she wouldn't be gloating about not going back to work.

For her to be that confident things aren't going to change I doubt there has been any real conflict/discussion on the issue.

I do think she should get up off her ass and work if he is miserable or help him come up with an exit strategy, but that doesn't sound like it is going to happen any time soon.