susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 29, 2012 14:15:16 GMT -5
Be that as it may, if we want to continue to grow our business, we don't really have a choice. We are not going to change the business world in our city and industry. We can adapt to the rules already in place or we can choose not to play. We choose to adapt. so you have chosen money as and Idol and are willing to sacrifice who you are to get it. Is that what I'm reading? If that is what you are reading into it, that has more to do with you and your perceptions than me. Learning new social rules is not sacrificing who you are. When I lived in Asia, I learned new social rules. When I moved to Latin America, I did the same thing. It is part of thriving in a new environment. Any new environment.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 14:15:21 GMT -5
...boy, this thread struck a chord, huh? ...susanb, fwiw, I would prefer that you not introduce me to your aquaintance at a gathering as "this is Been, who works in the X industry"... unless you're my superior and said gathering is for the purpose of networking... my reason being that my employment is my story to tell...
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 29, 2012 14:17:56 GMT -5
...boy, this thread struck a chord, huh? ...susanb, fwiw, I would prefer that you not introduce me to your aquaintance at a gathering as "this is Been, who works in the X industry"... unless you're my superior and said gathering is for the purpose of networking... my reason being that my employment is my story to tell... I didn't do the introduction. I was introduced. When I introduce people, I do try to point out a commonality in order to make them both more comfortable. Sometimes that is work related, sometimes it is not.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 14:18:00 GMT -5
Example of my social error: I started talking to someone at a party that I hadn't been introduced to. My background tells me this is social and friendly and good behavior at a party. The glare from the person who brought me to the party told me that I shouldn't start chatting people up until/unless I was introduced. I was not offended that I was asked at about work at a cooking class. In fact, I specifically stated that I was not upset, but surprised. I don't think it is a problem. I am just wondering where/when other people think it is okay/not okay to ask this question. ...I'd be inclined to out right ask my host if that was the intent of their glare to me after that interchange with one of their other guests... but that's just me...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 14:18:52 GMT -5
...boy, this thread struck a chord, huh? ...susanb, fwiw, I would prefer that you not introduce me to your aquaintance at a gathering as "this is Been, who works in the X industry"... unless you're my superior and said gathering is for the purpose of networking... my reason being that my employment is my story to tell... I didn't do the introduction. I was introduced. When I introduce people, I do try to point out a commonality in order to make them both more comfortable. Sometimes that is work related, sometimes it is not. ...fair enough...
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 29, 2012 14:19:45 GMT -5
::The glare from the person who brought me to the party told me that I shouldn't start chatting people up until/unless I was introduced. ::
The glare told you that? Or they told you that? You've managed to assign a REALLY specific meaning to a glare. Without them actually telling you, how do you know they weren't glaring because this person is their mortal enemy? The person who screwed their partner? An ex? A crazyperson? Etc?
::I was not offended that I was asked at about work at a cooking class. In fact, I specifically stated that I was not upset, but surprised. I don't think it is a problem. I am just wondering where/when other people think it is okay/not okay to ask this question.::
Ok, so surprised, but you've made it pretty clear your surprise was due to finding it socially unacceptable (even if not unacceptable to you personally). It's always ok to ask. The only time it's not ok to ask is if the person you're asking is such a self-important ass that they think you should clearly know what they do because they're SOOOO important. And if you do know what they do, don't ask. i.e. Don't ask Bill Gates "what he does", or Obama, or LeBron James.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 29, 2012 14:22:17 GMT -5
::Learning new social rules is not sacrificing who you are. When I lived in Asia, I learned new social rules. When I moved to Latin America, I did the same thing. It is part of thriving in a new environment. Any new environment.::
Ok, where are you now? I assume the U.S. Have you been here long? Maybe this is why we all find this so strange, it's socially acceptable pretty much all the time to ask innocuous questions like "what do you do".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2012 14:24:15 GMT -5
And other people often use what you do to try to define you. When my daughter meets new people and gets asked this question, she answers with something like, "I work at CVS or Winn Dixie" or whatever. (I am trying to not say where she works.) These are social situations involving lawyers, etc. She says they often look away for a minute before responding. Then she mentions that she is a pharmacist there.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 14:25:32 GMT -5
::Learning new social rules is not sacrificing who you are. When I lived in Asia, I learned new social rules. When I moved to Latin America, I did the same thing. It is part of thriving in a new environment. Any new environment.:: Ok, where are you now? I assume the U.S. Have you been here long? Maybe this is why we all find this so strange, it's socially acceptable pretty much all the time to ask innocuous questions like "what do you do". ...I'll disagree... ...and I'm
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 29, 2012 14:32:27 GMT -5
If that is what you are reading into it, that has more to do with you and your perceptions than me. Learning new social rules is not sacrificing who you are. When I lived in Asia, I learned new social rules. When I moved to Latin America, I did the same thing. It is part of thriving in a new environment. Any new environment. It has nothing to do with me that's why I asked. you are the one that seems to be uncomfortable in the setting you have described. i myself am not. I am always myself and I dont change with the company I'm in I was uncomfortable. For years. I believe that being willing to be uncomfortable is one of the most important factors in success. One of my good friends grew up in the ghetto of Detroit, but went to an Ivy league school. She was very uncomfortable when her first year. Eating in the cafeteria was something she dreaded. her willingness to change and be uncomfortable allowed her to achieve many things. I am willing to be uncomfortable. I am willing to learn. I can do both of these things and be myself.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 29, 2012 14:36:04 GMT -5
::Learning new social rules is not sacrificing who you are. When I lived in Asia, I learned new social rules. When I moved to Latin America, I did the same thing. It is part of thriving in a new environment. Any new environment.:: Ok, where are you now? I assume the U.S. Have you been here long? Maybe this is why we all find this so strange, it's socially acceptable pretty much all the time to ask innocuous questions like "what do you do". I have spent more of my adulthood around people from other countries than people from the US. It has shaped my views. No doubt. Also, I volunteer teaching an ESL class. I never ask what my students do because I have one student who is a dishwasher and arrives in a bus and another who claims she is a princess from Eastern Europe and she rolls up in a luxury car. It is a free class, so we get all sort of backgrounds. We do job related lessons, but I assign jobs because students don't have the vocabulary to know everyone's job in the class and I want it to be as level a playing field as possible.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 29, 2012 14:41:33 GMT -5
I don't mind being asked what I do or where I work. I can answer those questions. But, i don't really want to talk about work... There's the Confidentiality part of it and the "don't want to sit around and gripe about how much I hate my job/coworkers" part. I don't generally talk about work with friends or family (again with the confidentiality stuff) so I tend not to ask people about their jobs/work either. If I do ask I don't expect alot of an answer ( as I assume they can't or don't want to talk about their work). It's kinda like a self imposed Chinese Wall (or Firewall).
I don't find it odd though, when someone asks me what I do for a living.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 29, 2012 14:54:06 GMT -5
I disagree with you. If you are comfortable in your own skin and your abilities then no setting should make you feel inadequate. Its when you try to portray yourself as someone you aren't that causes the problem. My impression of people is on who they are and what they can do. if you try to keep up with the Jone's you are going to fail. I don't portray myself as someone I am not. I don't go to parties and try to look important. I go and try to give everyone I meet good attention and respect. Part of doing that is knowing the social rules. For example, if I do business with anyone from Asia, I take whatever they are handing me with both hands. If I do business with someone from the South, I don't rush into things. I ask them about their family. When a Korean student asks me my age, I know that they are just trying to figure out how to address me (they tailor their language and treatment based on strict age rules) and don't take offense. None of this has anything to do with being phony or keeping up with the Jonses. It is all about learning social rules and adapting to them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 29, 2012 15:39:17 GMT -5
Desparate to fill dead air, I once asked an awkward guy where he worked. He answered "24th Street & Thomas." Luckily, another guy who knew him better was standing there and asked "You mean, right there on the street corner?" I just left. If you aren't going to open up to the a seemingly innocent question, then I don't really want to talk to you. As already stated - no one is looking for specific information for their own personal use - they are just searching for a bit of common ground so they can find something to have an intelligent conversation.
"What do you do?"
I could answer "Finance" or "Financial reporting systems" or "I'm in the technology industry" or "I work for a company that sells cosmetics" or "I work for Boeing" or "I do financial consulting to a variety of industries" - if you are a optomistrist, maybe you know nothing about what I just said, and don't really care, so you can change the subject to religion or whatever. If, however, you are also in finance, you are actually capable of saying "Oh, what type - like investing or corporate?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2012 15:41:06 GMT -5
Weren't we all kind of taught to ask these kinds of questions when making small talk? Or, is that now somehow politically incorrect?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 29, 2012 15:48:49 GMT -5
That is how I feel also. Dale Carnagie - show interest in people and they will like you. However, in the OP's circle you can show interest by talking to people about what they do, but you aren't allowed to ask what they do.
I will say that SF always says that every single woman asks that question because they are all gold diggers. So, if (god forbid) I ever have to date again here are the questions I will ask on a first date: - When hanging your clothes, do you face the buttons to the left or the right? - When was the last time you painted a room in your house? What color did you choose? - Do you prefer green peppers or red peppers? - What temperature do you set your AC for? - What is your favorite interstate? - What is your Grandmother's first name?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2012 15:49:59 GMT -5
Talking about work is normal. How is that a problem? If someone doesn't want to disclose what they do, you just change the subject.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 29, 2012 15:50:14 GMT -5
So, you are allowed to ask in purely social events and purely work events - but nowhere else? WTF does that mean?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 29, 2012 15:50:38 GMT -5
...and, full disclosure, I'm full of self-importance... but I do try to tone down my arrogance... ;D Full disclosure for me, I grew up in a middle class family in a hick town. DH is from a working class family in a hick town. We have been running in completely different circles for the last four years. The learning curve has been steep. We have both made some social errors that have been frowned upon. We could both go to a sports bar all day without offending anyone. I am not asking these questions to give anyone a manner lesson, I am just trying to figure out the rules, as many of them as I can, so that I can interact with as many people, from as many backgrounds as possible. FWIW, in all the social and business situations I've been in over the past 10-20 years, from hick to Yacht Club, from clerk to running businesses, from private companies to publicly traded working with Wall Street guys, it's never been considered rude or a problem to ask about what the other person does for work. In fact, it's usually a good ice breaker. Most successful people tend to under, rather than over, state their jobs, though. It's also understood that the reality may be complicated and that a short, one liner appropriate to the situation is not necessarily the whole story.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 29, 2012 16:15:06 GMT -5
I have yet to meet someone who doesn't have a stock short answer for the question. I've gotten "I'm in insurance" and "I own my own company" to the more specific "Transactional Attorney" and even the title "I am the Director of XYZ for the State." Maybe you don't really understand what your friends do if you can't boil it down to a very, very general concept.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 29, 2012 16:48:36 GMT -5
...:::Maybe you don't really understand what your friends do if you can't boil it down to a very, very general concept. :::...
That's not the end of the world, either, though. My best friend jokes that even though she's known me for 5 years she still doesn't understand what our company makes. We make some really obscure stuff that isn't used by the general population, so unless you're an engineer or installation tech at a company that packages our stuff into a system with all the other high tech stuff, you're never going to have heard about it or understand what it is/does without a very lengthy, incredibly boring explanation. DH will patiently explain it to people, but I think it's more merciful not to... just give a summary "electronics for ___" and not risk them hitting their head when they go unconscious with boredom trying to listen to the details. I know it wouldn't be interesting to most people and I'm OK with that.
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moxie
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Post by moxie on Jul 29, 2012 16:51:11 GMT -5
"So, what do you think? Is this a question that you are often asked as part of small talk? Is it a question you ask? If so, which social functions do you ask it at?"
I get asked often what hubby does...no big deal.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 29, 2012 17:00:25 GMT -5
"So, what do you think? Is this a question that you are often asked as part of small talk? Is it a question you ask? If so, which social functions do you ask it at?" I get asked often what hubby does...no big deal. I have to admit it, this one rubs me the wrong way. I don't normally worry too much about what other people think, so it's embarrassing to say, but it irritates me that someone would assume that DH provides the income. Doesn't happen often, but when someone does ask that, I ignore it and answer as if they asked what I do.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 17:09:38 GMT -5
"So, what do you think? Is this a question that you are often asked as part of small talk? Is it a question you ask? If so, which social functions do you ask it at?" I get asked often what hubby does...no big deal. ...hmm...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 17:09:58 GMT -5
"So, what do you think? Is this a question that you are often asked as part of small talk? Is it a question you ask? If so, which social functions do you ask it at?" I get asked often what hubby does...no big deal. I have to admit it, this one rubs me the wrong way. I don't normally worry too much about what other people think, so it's embarrassing to say, but it irritates me that someone would assume that DH provides the income. Doesn't happen often, but when someone does ask that, I ignore it and answer as if they asked what I do. ...hmm...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 17:10:27 GMT -5
...that's two female posters, presumably both from the USA, and both answer differently to the same question...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 17:14:20 GMT -5
...susanb, I think you will find that there are differing social rules to different parts of US society... it will not be easy to hammer down a set of rules that will apply in all settings... ...I would expect prim and proper Bostonians require different social graces than the BBQing Biloxians... a military town or a DoC town will have an "unwritten pecking order" in the community that leads some neighbors to remain hush hush about employment... ...what you have posted already, about keeping your eyes and ears open, and doing your best to be hospitable and equitable in your behavior towards others, should fare you well... ...imo...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 29, 2012 17:14:40 GMT -5
LOL - two people with two different opinions and thoughts about life??!! That would never happen.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 29, 2012 17:16:07 GMT -5
LOL - two people with two different opinions and thoughts about life??!! That would never happen. ...I know, right?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 29, 2012 17:16:42 GMT -5
...that's two female posters, presumably both from the USA, and both answer differently to the same question... True. And I'll readily admit I'm the one with the nonconventional opinion on this issue. Most of the time, this is asked in swanky settings and honestly, the majority of the time the wives there do not work for money or contribute monetarily other than from inheritance. It doesn't seem to bother the other wives to be asked this and it probably only bothers me because I worked so darn hard to get here that it just stinks with one casual question a stranger can imply that my only contribution is as arm candy or supportive spouse. That says more about me than the asker, though, since as I said they are just (correctly) playing the odds.
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