What Ever Happened To.........

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 9, 2012 10:39:49 GMT -5 frankq said:

"Oh ya Q, some people were asking about you at FedWatch. Something about some day coming up?"

Yeah Buddy!

Nice!!!

[Driftr]

Sept 9, 2012 10:55:57 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Part of the reason I don't spend much time out here is the pure lunacy and censorship that prevails regarding deleting posts. Spirited discussion is near impossible these days, as is just having a little fun.

If you guys don't mind them, I have better things to do than delete your comments and log them.

Just don't complain to me when you get your feelings hurt.

I'm sorry if I came across wrong Virgil. I totally understand why it was deleted. I was just hoping it wasn't Q that reported it. I certainly don't think it is part of your job description to understand all the relationships on ProBoards and modify moderation based on that. I really just wanted to be sure I hadn't offended Q because I've had a lot of fun with him over the years (IMO).

Q-I basically just listed the YTD returns of VZ & T and told you to bleep off (not in those words though). You didn't miss much. See ya soon.

[frankq]

Jarhead,

Updated March 28, 2012
"In December 2008, the three major U.S. auto industry companies -- GM, Chrysler and Ford -- asked the government for a $34 billion bailout to avoid bankruptcy. The Big 3 stated that their demise would trigger 3 million layoffs within a year, plunging the economy further into recession."
useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm

This is what I was refering to. The statement above is inaccurate. The assumptions made regarding those statements are inaccurate. If Gates knew the stock price was going down and had prior knowledge of a "bailout", why buy at $15?. As to the term "bailout", that too is inaccurate if you calculate the return on investment due to continued payroll tax income from 1.5 million workers in the auto industry, the payback is approximately 3 years. Factor in the savings in government benefits that these workers would have collected and the payback is sooner. As for production, Ford sells probably half it's cars overseas so production there makes sense. I agree with your statement regarding production in Mexico, but you can take that up with the EPA and other assorted agencies.

[frankq]

"Q-I basically just listed the YTD returns of VZ & T and told you to bleep off (not in those words though). You didn't miss much. See ya soon."

No problem D. It's all in fun!

[jarhead1976]

Frank let's try the treasury department and GAO, as reference to the politically correct term of bailout, Automotive Industry Financing program.

www.gao.gov/new.items/d10151.pdf

Forgiving debt and writing down is not the same as paying back. The likelihood of the taxpayer getting repaid in full is doubtful even according to the GAO itself.

With GM stock down 10% , no reason for gates to do anything but sell the 15 dollar shares first.


And with that bailout goes this to the lucky employee numbered 1-25

"Comparison of 2011 compensation to prior year compensation for the employees listed above  Overall: Overall cash decreased approximately $3,000 or 0.02% and total direct compensation
decreased $6.1 million or 8.6%.
 The 12 executives remaining in the top 25 from 2010: Cash salaries increased approximately
$220,000 or 3.1% and total direct compensation increased $2.3 million or 7.7%.
 The 13 executives new to the top 25 in 2011: Overall cash compensation decreased approximately $223,000 or 2.8% and total direct compensation decreased $8.4 million or 20.4% from 2010.
Those numbers do not reflect the generous stock options see GAO table.

Old school rules!

What I couldn't do with some write downs and free money. Then again I don't need shit from them and would be accountable for my failure.

[frankq]

Jarhead,

Again, you're missing a big point. Try it this way. Take 1.5 million people in the automotive industry and assume a 15% income tax for 3 years at around 50 grand average salary and work the math. Now, factor in 1.5 million more people on unemployment, public aid, medicaid, whatever and compute that cost. Add number A to number B. It's bigger than the "bailout". All the government did was front money to the automakers that auto associated employees paid back over time by just keeping their jobs and paying taxes!!! Factor in the collateral damage to the economy by shear fear and panic that the American auto industry collapse would have caused. We can play this game all day, but as a taxpayer, I think I got a pretty good deal.

Secondly, again, your "source" names Ford as receiving "bailout" money. They did not. That's a huge error. I'm not a big fan of top execs getting big money when their companies are doing poorly but that's a subject for another day.

[dom]

In my opinion its an industry. Scare the shit out of us all, and make a shed load of money out of the books and movies etc..
Gives me an idea to actually write a disaster book and cash in too.

[decoy409]

We were through the bailout and who is who and who got what and who has not paid back and who is even asking to get our ordered crap out of the warehouses.

Yes just compute and add those numbers in the BIG picture instead of the old pick and choose and now that those justified I smell like a bed of roses.

Who are these 'auto associated employees'? And what are those numbers to the figures and where did they derrive from? And the US auto industry has not collapsed?


Quote - 'Factor in the collateral damage to the economy by shear fear and panic that the American auto industry collapse would have caused. We can play this game all day, but as a taxpayer, I think I got a pretty good deal.'

Of course you got a good deal. Don't forget your garandmas piggy bank savings. As we ste and have stated since the circus,if you think you are making out when it's strapped on the backs of others,you certainly are and have been headed in the wrong direction.

[frankq]

Decoy,

I gave you the simple equation in a previous post. Math is math, regardless of how one personally feels about the answer. Auto associated employees include direct employees of auto manufacturers as well as their supply train. The number of associated employees has been estimated at as high as 2 million. I used 1.5. The salary I used is lower than the figures stated by the manufacturers in making their arguements to kill all union contracts. Figure in all the white collar guys making more, dealer salespeople, mechanics, semi drivers, supply chain workers, etc. You guys just don't want to see the big picture. You're like a dog with a bone Decoy, and no matter how many times we go through the math, you'll never let go. You guys have tunnel vision. A good quality to have, if you spend your life in the dark. And, still no comment on the fact that Ford took no money as was incorrectly stated by the source below. Ford got no TARP money. Ford did borrow 5.9 billion to retool for more energy efficient cars. As far as I can see, it's paid back the money. After all, with the other two automakers getting TARP, it was only fair to at least lend some dough to Ford. As far as heading in the wrong direction, well, my Schwab statements beg to differ....

Updated March 28, 2012
"In December 2008, the three major U.S. auto industry companies -- GM, Chrysler and Ford -- asked the government for a $34 billion bailout to avoid bankruptcy. The Big 3 stated that their demise would trigger 3 million layoffs within a year, plunging the economy further into recession."
useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm

[jarhead1976]

Frank you are right, ford did not get a bailout. They had already moved manufacturing out of town. How can we justify those salaries and stock options with taxpayer money.

[decoy409]

Frank and a few others have never been able to justify their gains made possible on the backs of the taxpayers and insider dealings since day 1.

Frank you call it how you like,but a dog chasing a bone? Why that's you partner. You just have not figured it out is all.

Here is a tip for you frank,keep a eye on the debt note index as the weekend went buy and don't SEE no quality improvement but rather that of a 'K'.

Citigroup: $2.5 trillion ($2,500,000,000,000)
Morgan Stanley: $2.04 trillion ($2,040,000,000,000)
Merrill Lynch: $1.949 trillion ($1,949,000,000,000)
Bank of America: $1.344 trillion ($1,344,000,000,000)
Barclays PLC (United Kingdom): $868 billion ($868,000,000,000)
Bear Sterns: $853 billion ($853,000,000,000)
Goldman Sachs: $814 billion ($814,000,000,000)
Royal Bank of Scotland (UK): $541 billion ($541,000,000,000)
JP Morgan Chase: $391 billion ($391,000,000,000)
Deutsche Bank (Germany): $354 billion ($354,000,000,000)
UBS (Switzerland): $287 billion ($287,000,000,000)
Credit Suisse (Switzerland): $262 billion ($262,000,000,000)
Lehman Brothers: $183 billion ($183,000,000,000)
Bank of Scotland (United Kingdom): $181 billion ($181,000,000,000)
BNP Paribas (France): $175 billion ($175,000,000,000)
and many many more including banks in Belgium of all places

[frankq]

Decoy,

We're talking about auto manufacturers. And I have never made a dime off of taxpayers, wipe. I have invested wisely. I don't remember borrowing or taking a dime from you or anyone else. The topic is AUTOMAKERS Decoy, which were forced into their problem by the fact that cash had dried up due to the financial crisis! Automobile manufacturing is very expensive and is FRONT END LOADED! You see, cars are made IN ADVANCE. That is why automakers can have SEVERAL MONTHS OF INVENTORY. Cars are shipped to dealers, who pay only the interest on the cost of vehicle until the cars are sold. Car makers have to secure financing to build cars, pay employees, benefits, etc. and get their money later. If you can't respond to the topic at hand, then stay on your own thread.

How about taking the cuffs off Virgil? If Decoy can come here, then give me access to his thread!

[frankq]

Jarhead,

Last time. I laid out the math for you guys and you simply refuse to acknowledge it. You guys can believe what you want. It was necessary, it kept millions paying taxes instead of going on the dole, and....it's over. Just so you guys know, although Decoy would disagree, The North won the war and the Japanese surrendered. Now you guys are up to date.

[frankq]

"Frank and a few others have never been able to justify their gains made possible on the backs of the taxpayers and insider dealings since day 1."

Really? I justify it every time I put my money at risk in the market. I walk the walk Decoy. I'm not a poser like you. I don't take credit for the calls of others like Duff.....

By the way, why did you get thrown off of Duffs site? Looks like you, VL and mid all got the boot at around the same time.

[frankq]

Message deleted by frankq.

After all, why bother......

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

By the way, why did you get thrown off of Duffs site? Looks like you, VL and mid all got the boot at around the same time

Seriously? WOW!

Great points as always Q..

Only a few months left before Nebru gets here! Make sure you have your sunscreen for those solar flares. ;D

[Driftr]

Is Nebru aka Planet X?

[frankq]

Got my SPF 2000 ready!

[Virgil Showlion]

A friend sent me this article and I immediately thought of you, Frank. To wit:

Normally, terrorists are proud of their success and announce their responsibility. It is a way to build a movement. Often a number of terrorist groups will compete in claiming credit for a successful operation. But Osama bin Laden in the last video that is certified by independent experts said that he had no responsibility for 9/11, that he had nothing against the American people, that his opposition was limited to the US government's colonial policies and control over Muslim governments.

It makes no sense that the "mastermind" of the most humiliating blow in world history ever to have been delivered against a superpower would not claim credit for his accomplishment. By September 11, 2001, Osama bin Laden knew that he was deathly ill. According to news reports he underwent kidney dialysis the following month. The most reliable reports that we have are that he died in December 2001. It is simply not credible that bin Laden denied responsibility because he feared Washington.

But Osama bin Laden was too useful a bogeyman, and Washington and the presstitute media kept him alive for another decade until Obama needed to kill the dead man in order to boost his sinking standings in the polls so that Democrats would not back a challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Numerous bin Laden videos, every one pronounced a fake by experts, were released whenever it was convenient for Washington. No one in the Western media or in the US Congress or European or UK parliaments was sufficiently intelligent to recognize that a bin Laden video always showed up on cue when Washington needed it. "Why would the 'mastermind' be so accommodating for Washington?" was the question that went through my mind every time one of the fake videos was released.

I know there's no bigger supporter of the theory that 9/11 was an inside job.

[frankq]

Now...That is funny!!!!!

[Virgil Showlion]

One of the interesting things about the conspiracy is that it was the conspiracy heads who were claiming (since 2001), that OBL's body would never be found, never be subjected to scrutiny. They claimed he would only be seen in videos, that only experts from three specific institutions (I can't recall which ones offhand) would ever be used to vouch for the authenticity of the videos, that bin Laden would die in some ridiculous drama at a time when it was badly needed (specifically that he'd be shot dead by US forces), and that the body would simply disappear.

All of this turned out to be 100% accurate. Obviously I expect you to call it a coincidence, and I won't disagree with you. But you have to admit that it's an intriguing coincidence, though.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 21, 2012 17:35:05 GMT -5 frankq said:

Got my SPF 2000 ready!

Shit man, I only got 1000. I think I'm gonna burn in this "final", as they say...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 21, 2012 7:16:58 GMT -5 Driftr said:

Is Nebru aka Planet X?

Yes the planet they have been looking for forever. There could be one on the outside of the solar system because of gravitational pull, they found Pluto looking for it. However, just like many other stores it was hijacked for enemy propaganda...

Kinda like 9/11 in my mind. Did they know, most likely. What were they going to do? Go full panic mode and install TSA all over, crack down on terrorist organizations, ect, ect on a hunch? How would that have played out? I know what I think would have happened.....

But now, hey YOUR govt attack you! YOUR govt is out to get you.. Umm yeah okay, nobody on Earth dislikes the USA, got it..

[engleclair]

I actually find this post to be downright embarrassing. The OP is touting that nothing's wrong from where he stands. So? We get it. You live a comfortable middle class life. It just hasn't hit you yet. If we've learned ANYTHING from the last five years we can see that the powers that be are going the slow death route. The initial post is dripping with fear and ignorance. It's like calling a football game at the end of the 1st quarter.

Of course, I'll wait for the obligatory "I forgot more than you'll ever learn, kid" comeback from the world's greatest optimist.

[frankq]

Not the worlds greatest optimist, just a realist. I've never said that nothing is wrong. Obviously you have misread or misunderstood the initial post. The points in the original post come from a history spanning literally years of almost weekly dire warnings from some out here. The fact remains, we're still here. Many of us have somewhat of a history from the MSN days. As a new member, you may not be aware of that. No, I won't give you the "obligatory I forgot more than you'll ever learn kid" comeback, but I will advise you to check your facts before you post. If any post is dripping with fear and ignorance, it's yours.

[engleclair]

Sept 22, 2012 8:11:15 GMT -5 frankq said:

Not the worlds greatest optimist, just a realist. I've never said that nothing is wrong. Obviously you have misread or misunderstood the initial post. The points in the original post come from a history spanning literally years of almost weekly dire warnings from some out here. The fact remains, we're still here. Many of us have somewhat of a history from the MSN days. As a new member, you may not be aware of that. No, I won't give you the "obligatory I forgot more than you'll ever learn kid" comeback, but I will advise you to check your facts before you post. If any post is dripping with fear and ignorance, it's yours.

Almost two years on here and I am new? Just because those little words under my screen name? Yep, all of my conciousness started the day I joined on the MSN Refugees message board.

[frankq]

No, I don't think you conciousness has quite started yet, but just be patient and give it time.

[frankq]

"All of this turned out to be 100% accurate. Obviously I expect you to call it a coincidence, and I won't disagree with you. But you have to admit that it's an intriguing coincidence, though."

I guess you could look at it that way, but on the other hand, wherever they would have buried the guy would have become Graceland for terrorists.

[engleclair]

Sept 22, 2012 9:04:37 GMT -5 frankq said:

No, I don't think you conciousness has quite started yet, but just be patient and give it time.

That's some fine grammar.

[frankq]

Looks like I had a Decoy moment and missed the "r" key. Owww.......you got me..........lol