Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:50:10 GMT -5
I agree that those are parental choices but they are not even comparable to drinking alcohol. And spanking (maybe?) and alcohol has studies to support both ways. Is there anything that says breastfeeding is bad for the baby or the mother? I was referring to the choice of formula over breastmilk. I believe there are studies out there that show that having a negative effect on a baby's development over breastmilk. So again, I DO find the spanking thing quite comparable because depending on who you ask, it can either be a totally acceptable and necessary disciplinary tool, or the first step on the road to serious child abuse. Every parent needs to decide what they feel is an appropriate amount of risk for THEIR personal child. Some parents simply don't consider spanking unsafe, just like some women simply don't consider drinking alcohol to be unsafe. Are there studies contradicting those viewpoints? You bet! But there also plenty supporting them. So again, I think it's quite comparable. But now you are saying spanking is dangerous because it can LEAD to child abuse....but there is no evidence to suggest that spanking can cause mental retardation or any of the other issues that alcohol can cause.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 14:50:34 GMT -5
Those of you who have been talking about having one drink here or there probably read my statement and got really pissed off. Which is understandable. However, I'm pretty sure it was after the post about special ed kids. My mom was a special ed teacher for years. I tutored some of her kids after school. Some of those kids will spend their entire lives in institutions because of stupid choices on their mother's part during pregnancy. They'll have to live with that their whole lives. One disgustingly selfish and stupid woman who couldn't control her behavior for nine short months ruined whatever chance they would have had at a normal life. It's heartbreaking really. Do I think that having a glass of wine with dinner now and again is the same as using heroin while pregnant. No. Of course not. However, I don't buy that it's particularly healthy either. Shit, alcohol and caffeine are bad for adults. We all know that. They aren't horribly bad in moderation, but we all know they aren't good for us either. Why would we expect them to be good for developing fetuses? but if pepsi is the only thing that I could keep from throwing up when I was pregnant, damn skippy i'm gonna drink it. I tried for 3 years to get pregnant, and when I did, I was going to be the best pregnant lady out there. Exercise every day, eat really well, blah blah blah. And then the morning sickness came. and never went away for the ENTIRE FREAKIN' PREGNANCY. If something stayed down, I was eating it, and I didnt care if it was pepsi, lunch meat, soft cheese, or fish. And I also had the same experience of puking in traffic, several times, except I pulled to the side of the road.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:51:10 GMT -5
While there might be studies that claim spanking causes emotional harm, there are no studies out there that claim spanking your child can cause mental retardation...seriously, that is a HUGE difference.
So one is better than the other? How can you quantify it like that? It's okay for a parent to make a choice that *could* emotionally scar their child (but probably won't), but it's not okay for them to make a choice that *could* cause mental retardation (but probably won't, and I'm talking about LIGHT drinking here) because being emotionally scarred is somehow better than being retarded?
My point is that we make choices all the time as parents that are debatable, that COULD harm our kids. But we make them because we believe that they are the best choices, based on all available information we have. Sometimes we're wrong, and sometimes other people are wrong. Sometimes stuff that seems VERY wrong to us is proven to be completely fine. Other times stuff we did because WE thought it was fine are proven to cause great harm.
I'm just saying that I don't judge people as bad parents for making choices with which I disagree (unless we're talking about obvious, objective abuse). And I don't understand that mentality. For the most part, parents are trying to do their best. They might not do things exactly the way you would, but that does NOT mean they don't care about their children.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 14:51:12 GMT -5
It wasn't my doctor but somebody told me that their doctor said that. that honestly blows me away...I hope to God that was a reaLLY old doctor and that your friend found a new one...wow! or somebody heard what they wanted to hear, not what was told them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:51:35 GMT -5
Here is a serious question for those of you who are in support of drinking while pregnant. I don't think there is any denying that the alcohol crosses the placenta, right? it's whether it causes issues with the development of the baby, right? Correct me if I am wrong...
So, would any of you are drinking during your pregnancy be just as supportive of slipping a little wine in the baby's bottle? Since a little alcohol doesn't hurt, why wouldn't you?? (ignoring the fact that it is illegal)
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:52:49 GMT -5
While there might be studies that claim spanking causes emotional harm, there are no studies out there that claim spanking your child can cause mental retardation...seriously, that is a HUGE difference.So one is better than the other? How can you quantify it like that? It's okay for a parent to make a choice that *could* emotionally scar their child (but probably won't), but it's not okay for them to make a choice that *could* cause mental retardation (but probably won't, and I'm talking about LIGHT drinking here) because being emotionally scarred is somehow better than being retarded? My point is that we make choices all the time as parents that are debatable, that COULD harm our kids. But we make them because we believe that they are the best choices, based on all available information we have. Sometimes we're wrong, and sometimes other people are wrong. Sometimes stuff that seems VERY wrong to us is proven to be completely fine. Other times stuff we did because WE thought it was fine are proven to cause great harm. I'm just saying that I don't judge people as bad parents for making choices with which I disagree (unless we're talking about obvious, objective abuse). And I don't understand that mentality. For the most part, parents are trying to do their best. They might not do things exactly the way you would, but that does NOT mean they don't care about their children. I have a child with mental retardation...trust me, this is a life long situatioin where she might never be able to live independently...there is no way in hell you can equate that with little johnny's feelings getting damaged because his mommy spanked him.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:53:21 GMT -5
because being emotionally scarred is somehow better than being retarded? I've only been the former, but I'll take it over the latter any day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:53:34 GMT -5
Actually there is no research that says that. All the research that was done to say that was done at a moderate level equivalent to one drink per day (either for a full pregnancy or trimester). They never did research at lower levels until recently and those studies either show a benefit or no harm. There are lots of highly recognized organizations that say there is no way too say that any alcohol is actually safe and a lot of them recommend absolutely no alcohol during pregnancy. That is nice, I've actually read the research. Many of these organizations are composed of people who have never done one single bit of biological research or even have the ability to read a scientific paper. Some of them, yes, but most no. I'll take the actually research over someone's opinion of it, thank you.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 14:53:38 GMT -5
The alcohol itself doesn't cross the placenta, the metabolites of it do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:53:40 GMT -5
"One disgustingly selfish and stupid woman who couldn't control her behavior for nine short months ruined whatever chance they would have had at a normal life. It's heartbreaking really."
This is what it boils down. When there is so much conflict, why would you take that chance?? We are not talking about something that is not doable, like don't eat anything during pregnancy. Avoiding alcohol for 9 months just in case shouldn't be that hard unless you are an alcoholic (I am not saying anybody is an alcoholic, I understand some people don't think it is harmful and that's why they are not avoiding). I just think that when it comes to an issue like this you should go with the stricter of the opinions, just in case.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:54:30 GMT -5
because being emotionally scarred is somehow better than being retarded? I've only been the former, but I'll take it over the latter any day. I've been the former and my child has the latter...trust me on this, I you can work through your emotional scars...you can't fix mental retardation...trust me, I've spent tens of thousand of dollars trying....
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 14:55:09 GMT -5
"One disgustingly selfish and stupid woman who couldn't control her behavior for nine short months ruined whatever chance they would have had at a normal life. It's heartbreaking really." This is what it boils down. When there is so much conflict, why would you take that chance?? We are not talking about something that is not doable, like don't eat anything during pregnancy. Avoiding alcohol for 9 months just in case shouldn't be that hard unless you are an alcoholic (I am not saying anybody is an alcoholic, I understand some people don't think it is harmful and that's why they are not avoiding). I just think that when it comes to an issue like this you should go with the stricter of the opinions, just in case. because if i followed all the stricter opinions, i'd be wrapped in bubble wrap and eating solely spinach.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:56:11 GMT -5
I have a child with mental retardation...trust me, this is a life long situatioin where she might never be able to live independently...there is no way in hell you can equate that with little johnny's feelings getting damaged because his mommy spanked him.
Super done talking about this now. I think I've made my position clear, and I think you've made yours clear. And we simply disagree.
If I thought that an occasional glass of wine would harm my kid, OBVIOUSLY I wouldn't be drinking - what kind of monster would? I had a drink ONLY after four different OB/GYNs told me it was safe, coupled with knowing that all of my friends gave birth to healthy children with perfect brains.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 29, 2012 14:56:15 GMT -5
Here is a serious question for those of you who are in support of drinking while pregnant. I don't think there is any denying that the alcohol crosses the placenta, right? it's whether it causes issues with the development of the baby, right? Correct me if I am wrong... So, would any of you are drinking during your pregnancy be just as supportive of slipping a little wine in the baby's bottle? Since a little alcohol doesn't hurt, why wouldn't you?? (ignoring the fact that it is illegal) hmm....my parents used to rub whiskey on my gums when I was teething. I suppose that's about as well-received by some of you as slipping a kid a little Benadryl before a flight.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:56:18 GMT -5
Here is a serious question for those of you who are in support of drinking while pregnant. I don't think there is any denying that the alcohol crosses the placenta, right? it's whether it causes issues with the development of the baby, right? Correct me if I am wrong... So, would any of you are drinking during your pregnancy be just as supportive of slipping a little wine in the baby's bottle? Since a little alcohol doesn't hurt, why wouldn't you?? (ignoring the fact that it is illegal) Doctors recommend rubbing rum on the gums of toothing babies. A low level of alcohol is not harmful. What a low level is depends on the size of the organism, however. And, btw, depending on the state a mother giving her minor child alcohol is not illegal, in their home. It was not in Ca.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:56:57 GMT -5
because if i followed all the stricter opinions, i'd be wrapped in bubble wrap and eating solely spinach. It's just nine months, stop being a wimp and suck it up!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:57:19 GMT -5
There are lots of highly recognized organizations that say there is no way too say that any alcohol is actually safe and a lot of them recommend absolutely no alcohol during pregnancy. That is nice, I've actually read the research. Many of these organizations are composed of people who have never done one single bit of biological research or even have the ability to read a scientific paper. Some of them, yes, but most no. I'll take the actually research over someone's opinion of it, thank you. And I will take the word of the American College of Obsteticians, the ACOG and various other organizations thoughts on the matter over some random internet poster...tyvm yeah, I posted links earlier from each of these organizations saying NO amount of alchol has been proven safe.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 14:58:14 GMT -5
1 drink, if you have that actual 1 drink, like 4 oz of wine, will raise your BAC to .02, at most, which is not impaired, not intoxicated, and not even buzzed.
I worry about the 1 glass of wine that is actually a 12 oz serving.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 29, 2012 14:59:04 GMT -5
i'd be wrapped in bubble wrap and eating solely spinachThat better be organic locally raised spinach and BPA Free bubble wrap you're using missy.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 29, 2012 14:59:04 GMT -5
"One disgustingly selfish and stupid woman who couldn't control her behavior for nine short months ruined whatever chance they would have had at a normal life. It's heartbreaking really." This is what it boils down. When there is so much conflict, why would you take that chance?? We are not talking about something that is not doable, like don't eat anything during pregnancy. Avoiding alcohol for 9 months just in case shouldn't be that hard unless you are an alcoholic (I am not saying anybody is an alcoholic, I understand some people don't think it is harmful and that's why they are not avoiding). I just think that when it comes to an issue like this you should go with the stricter of the opinions, just in case. because if i followed all the stricter opinions, i'd be wrapped in bubble wrap and eating solely spinach. Don't you know spinach can carry e coli?!? Sheesh, you must not really love your baby.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:59:18 GMT -5
"I had a drink ONLY after four different OB/GYNs told me it was safe, coupled with knowing that all of my friends gave birth to healthy children with perfect brains."
God forbid if something were to happen, would you think alcohol had anything to do with it? They used to do xrays instead of ultrasounds, a lot of people turned out okay, that doesn't mean xrays aren't harmful.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 14:59:30 GMT -5
because if i followed all the stricter opinions, i'd be wrapped in bubble wrap and eating solely spinach. It's just nine months, stop being a wimp and suck it up! <<pukes on Dark>>
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:59:30 GMT -5
I have a child with mental retardation...trust me, this is a life long situatioin where she might never be able to live independently...there is no way in hell you can equate that with little johnny's feelings getting damaged because his mommy spanked him. Super done talking about this now. I think I've made my position clear, and I think you've made yours clear. And we simply disagree. If I thought that an occasional glass of wine would harm my kid, OBVIOUSLY I wouldn't be drinking - what kind of monster would? I had a drink ONLY after four different OB/GYNs told me it was safe, coupled with knowing that all of my friends gave birth to healthy children with perfect brains. And my obgyn said it was absolutely not safe...actually, I had two different obgyns (two pregnancies) and they both told me it was not safe.... I said earlier we would agree to disagree
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:59:46 GMT -5
I worry about the 1 glass of wine that is actually a 12 oz serving. I mentioned that earlier. Have you ever seen an actual 4 oz glass? They're tiny. The glass of wine you get at a restaurant is easily 2-3 glasses of wine, not 1. Not to mention that different wines have different alcohol contents to begin with, so not all 4 oz servings are equal to begin with. What do the pro drinking while pregnant studies say about 12 oz glasses of higher alcohol wines, so you're getting the equivalent of 5 drinks over the course of a meal? Is that fine, cause it all came in one glass, or are you now binge drinking while pregnant and that's bad?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 15:00:29 GMT -5
Here is a serious question for those of you who are in support of drinking while pregnant. I don't think there is any denying that the alcohol crosses the placenta, right? it's whether it causes issues with the development of the baby, right? Correct me if I am wrong... So, would any of you are drinking during your pregnancy be just as supportive of slipping a little wine in the baby's bottle? Since a little alcohol doesn't hurt, why wouldn't you?? (ignoring the fact that it is illegal) hmm....my parents used to rub whiskey on my gums when I was teething. I suppose that's about as well-received by some of you as slipping a kid a little Benadryl before a flight. So did my mom...but I also think she sucked as a parent so I'm certainly not clinging to anything she did
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 15:00:59 GMT -5
because if i followed all the stricter opinions, i'd be wrapped in bubble wrap and eating solely spinach. Don't you know spinach can carry e coli?!? Sheesh, you must not really love your baby. It's already been established that I hate my children.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 15:01:38 GMT -5
I said earlier we would agree to disagree I clearly should have listened. I should have shut up two pages ago. I'm sorry I started this thread.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 15:01:59 GMT -5
I have a child with mental retardation...trust me, this is a life long situatioin where she might never be able to live independently...there is no way in hell you can equate that with little johnny's feelings getting damaged because his mommy spanked him. Super done talking about this now. I think I've made my position clear, and I think you've made yours clear. And we simply disagree. If I thought that an occasional glass of wine would harm my kid, OBVIOUSLY I wouldn't be drinking - what kind of monster would? I had a drink ONLY after four different OB/GYNs told me it was safe, coupled with knowing that all of my friends gave birth to healthy children with perfect brains. And my obgyn said it was absolutely not safe...actually, I had two different obgyns (two pregnancies) and they both told me it was not safe.... I said earlier we would agree to disagree 2000 vs. 2012. Different advice now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 15:02:25 GMT -5
"I'm sorry I started this thread." Why? What is the point if everybody will just agree to everything?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2012 15:02:57 GMT -5
I worry about the 1 glass of wine that is actually a 12 oz serving. I mentioned that earlier. Have you ever seen an actual 4 oz glass? They're tiny. The glass of wine you get at a restaurant is easily 2-3 glasses of wine, not 1. You're correct, and it's up to me to make sure if I'm going to drink, it's only the 1 drink. My heartburn fixed it for me and I had a sip...............and then went and ate TUMS.
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