midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 29, 2012 14:17:09 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:17:21 GMT -5
There's a reason he's an only child though. I really liked that purse. LOL!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:18:34 GMT -5
Considering the fact that FB is not the only person on this thread who has admitted to drinking while pregnant (with their doctor's OK), I don't blame her or anyone else for taking these comments personally. I'm miffed by the judgmental tone of some of these posts and I've never even been pregnant, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. There is no "tone"...I fully admitted that I judge a pregnant women who drinks alcohol....whether we like it or not, we ALL judge other people. I'm sure my parenting techniques are judged on a daily basis...at least I'm honest enough to state my opinions, rather than hide behind PC bullshit.... But I also like FB and did not want to intend to hurt her feelings.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:21:31 GMT -5
I agree with Miss Tequila. As the mother of a preemie, I have thought if anything I may have done caused my very premature labor. My doctor said it was okay to drink coke/coffee/tea in moderation, which i did drink some coke and some tea, never ever alcohol, even right now I don't drink alcohol because of breastfeeding. If I could do it all over again I would not even drink the little coke/tea I drank, be a lot less physical, limit my stress... I would rather refrain from doing something that has the possibility of even the slightest harm (assuming it is something doable like stopping alcohol/coke/tea/etc). And maybe this is more it...I can imagine reading conflicting studies, hanging my hat on one that gave me the greenlight to do something, only to wind up with a special needs child. And I AM the mom of a special needs child and the only reason I keep my sanity is because I know I did absolutely everything that I could, right. No alcohol, no coffee, lunchmeant, soft cheese, etc. Our issue was most likely caused at conception (dna) but we will never know for sure and I woudl live my life worrying that I did something to cause her problems.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:21:33 GMT -5
"There is no "tone"...I fully admitted that I judge a pregnant women who drinks alcohol....whether we like it or not, we ALL judge other people. I'm sure my parenting techniques are judged on a daily basis...at least I'm honest enough to state my opinions, rather than hide behind PC bullshit.... But I also like FB and did not want to intend to hurt her feelings." I also like FB and I know she will be a wonderful mother. But I would also judge a pregnant mother for drinking alcohol (for one I would not know if that was 1 glass they had during the whole pregnancy or if they were doing this every day or more than 1 glass). Is alcohol really that important to take that risk?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:24:45 GMT -5
For the record, Miss T, these are the comments that stung the most:
Dark: If I was your husband the Mt. Dew wouldn't be OK either, and I'll give you the same disgusted looks I give pregnant women drinking if I see you swilling that crap in public. Caffeine is a drug. Alcohol is a drug. I personally find a woman drugging her unborn child disgusting.
You: I dont understand the "it's my body I will do what I want" without any regard to the life inside of them.
And not because of the disagreement, but because they seem to imply that if I have any forbidden substances at all (never mind how much) I must not care at ALL about my unborn child.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:24:46 GMT -5
if we were out at dinner together and you saw me order a glass of wine you'd say something to me too - right? As long as it wasn't a huge glass and you stuck to just one, I'd probably leave it at a disappointed look. Except that there is medical evidence that one glass of red wine per week is beneficial to the fetus. You are NOT the person carrying the fetus, the father of the fetus or the OBGYN so stay out of it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:26:49 GMT -5
But I would also judge a pregnant mother for drinking alcohol (for one I would not know if that was 1 glass they had during the whole pregnancy or if they were doing this every day or more than 1 glass).
But that's just it, you wouldn't know how much I was drinking! For all you know, that's been my only drink for the whole pregnancy and I called my doctor five minutes ago for a green light.
And some people are saying that it doesn't matter even if it IS that one drink, because you're still drugging your baby and that's a disgusting thing to do that proves you don't love it very much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:27:45 GMT -5
My sentiments exactly!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:27:56 GMT -5
Except that there is medical evidence that one glass of red wine per week is beneficial to the fetus. There used to be piles of medical evidence that smoking was good for you because it reduced stress. If you saw a visibly pregnant woman sucking down a cigarette today would you be slightly shocked, saddened, revolted, etc?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:31:39 GMT -5
For the record, Miss T, these are the comments that stung the most: Dark: If I was your husband the Mt. Dew wouldn't be OK either, and I'll give you the same disgusted looks I give pregnant women drinking if I see you swilling that crap in public. Caffeine is a drug. Alcohol is a drug. I personally find a woman drugging her unborn child disgusting.
You: I dont understand the "it's my body I will do what I want" without any regard to the life inside of them. And not because of the disagreement, but because they seem to imply that if I have any forbidden substances at all (never mind how much) I must not care at ALL about my unborn child. FB, I'm not sure what you want me to say? I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings...I do not believe alcohol is safe during pregnancy...therefore, I do no think that if you care about your chiild you will drink it. You think it is safe and you disagree with me. I stand by what I believe but I am trying to do so in a manner that doesn't offend you. I feel the same way about smoking. If I see a pregnant woman smoking in my mind she cares more about her disgusting habit than she does about her baby. So see, I'm bashing drinker AND smokers :-p
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:32:39 GMT -5
Except that there is medical evidence that one glass of red wine per week is beneficial to the fetus. There used to be piles of medical evidence that smoking was good for you because it reduced stress. If you saw a visibly pregnant woman sucking down a cigarette today would you be slightly shocked, saddened, revolted, etc? I used that argumetn earlier!lol My mom was told to continue smoke because the stress of quitting would be harder on me...can you imagine such ludicrous advice today???lol
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:33:22 GMT -5
"But that's just it, you wouldn't know how much I was drinking! For all you know, that's been my only drink for the whole pregnancy and I called my doctor five minutes ago for a green light. "
I would not do something if my doctor says it is okay but somebody else's doctor said something to the contrary. I would rather take the stricter of the two. For example, my doctor said it was perfectly fine to go through metal detectors at the airport, however, once I got to Turkey my sister said I shouldn't, her doctor had said otherwise so I stopped. But I don't know if that was one cause of my premature labor.
"And some people are saying that it doesn't matter even if it IS that one drink, because you're still drugging your baby and that's a disgusting thing to do that proves you don't love it very much. "
Well, it does matter if it is one drink or five, your risk increases but i don't agree with drinking alcohol at all during pregnancy. I don't think it means you don't care about your baby because I know you do. I just think it is very unnecessary risk. Again, I feel like I took unnecessary risk by drinking coke and tea even if it wasn't much and well below what my doctor said ok. I will never know if any of those things brought on my premature labor. After going through everything I did, 98 days in the NICU and not knowing what the future holds for my baby, I would do anything to go back and change everything that is making me 2nd guess myself/my doctor.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:33:37 GMT -5
if we were out at dinner together and you saw me order a glass of wine you'd say something to me too - right? As long as it wasn't a huge glass and you stuck to just one, I'd probably leave it at a disappointed look. Except that there is medical evidence that one glass of red wine per week is beneficial to the fetus. You are the person carrying the fetus, the father of the fetus or the OBGYN so stay out of it. And there is also medical evidence that no amount of alcohol is safe for a baby...so which evidence is right?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:35:51 GMT -5
Don't worry Tina, I think I'm the one who said something to the effect of "if you can't clean up your diet and stop from indulging in your vices for nine months for the health of your baby you're probably not ready to be a parent." I'd imagine that's where the feathers got ruffled.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:36:20 GMT -5
"I used that argumetn earlier!lol My mom was told to continue smoke because the stress of quitting would be harder on me...can you imagine such ludicrous advice today???lol"
I actually have heard that recently from somebody. So they may still be giving the same exact advice. I know 2 women who smoked during pregnancy, one has a daughter with asthma, the other's baby died 6 weeks after birth (had heart surgery). I don't know and I am sure they don't know if smoking caused it but how would you not blame yourself in that situation?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:36:25 GMT -5
FB, I'm not sure what you want me to say?Nothing, I just wanted to clarify which part I found offensive. I don't want anyone thinking that I get all bent out of shape over a simple difference of opinion For example, I am hugely against corporal punishment. I think spanking is a terrible, harmful thing (and please, I don't want to get into this debate with anyone - it's a horribly triggery subject for me - I'm just using it as an example) DESPITE the fact that "some kids turn out fine." I think it's a horribly unnecessary and harmful discipline tool. I don't think anyone should do it - much like you feel about alcohol. And if I see it in public, I'm horribly disgusted, shocked, saddened, all the things you feel when you see a woman drinking. HOWEVER, I understand that many parents believe it to be beneficial to their children, not harmful at all. I 100% disagree with that stance, BUT I don't consider them bad parents for holding it or employing corporal punishment for their kids. They're doing what they think is right. I disagree, but I don't think they're necessarily bad parents for doing something with which I disagree. Even if they're making a serious mistake, I don't think it means they don't care about their children. To me, that's the difference. Disagreeing with someone's parental choice, judging it even - okay, we all do that and I do it myself. But considering them bad parents for making a choice that you wouldn't make with your own children and consider to be wrong? I just don't get that leap (and I'm talking about subjective, debatable topics like breastfeeding and spanking, not obviously wrong stuff like letting your kids do heroin).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:40:28 GMT -5
"debatable topics like breastfeeding and spanking"
I agree that those are parental choices but they are not even comparable to drinking alcohol. And spanking (maybe?) and alcohol has studies to support both ways. Is there anything that says breastfeeding is bad for the baby or the mother?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:40:58 GMT -5
FB, I'm not sure what you want me to say?Nothing, I just wanted to clarify which part I found offensive. I don't want anyone thinking that I get all bent out of shape over a simple difference of opinion For example, I am hugely against corporal punishment. I think spanking is a terrible, harmful thing (and please, I don't want to get into this debate with anyone - it's a horribly triggery subject for me - I'm just using it as an example). I don't think anyone should do it - much like you feel about alcohol. And if I see it in public, I'm horribly disgusted, shocked, saddened, all the things you feel when you see a woman drinking. HOWEVER, I understand that many parents believe it to be beneficial to their children, not harmful at all. I 100% disagree with that stance, BUT I don't consider them bad parents for holding it or employing corporal punishment for their kids. They're doing what they think is right. I disagree, but I don't think they're necessarily bad parents for doing something with which I disagree. Even if they're making a serious mistake, I don't think it means they don't care about their children. To me, that's the difference. Teh difference to me is, one can actually harm the development of the baby while the other can't. So while I "get" what you are saying, I don't think you are comparing apples to oranges. I feel the same way about parents I see smoking in a car wtih their children....they might be the best parents out there, but all I see is someone doing something to their child which can cause harm to their health. I was raised by a smoker and I am fine so yeah, all smokers can use me as that token example that smoking does not harm the health of children...but we all know that is ridiculous. The difference between you and me is that I believe alcohol to be unsafe for the baby and you don't.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:41:37 GMT -5
"I used that argumetn earlier!lol My mom was told to continue smoke because the stress of quitting would be harder on me...can you imagine such ludicrous advice today???lol" I actually have heard that recently from somebody. So they may still be giving the same exact advice. I know 2 women who smoked during pregnancy, one has a daughter with asthma, the other's baby died 6 weeks after birth (had heart surgery). I don't know and I am sure they don't know if smoking caused it but how would you not blame yourself in that situation? Wait...doctors are STILL giving that advice?? Holy hell batman!!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:42:34 GMT -5
Don't worry Tina, I think I'm the one who said something to the effect of "if you can't clean up your diet and stop from indulging in your vices for nine months for the health of your baby you're probably not ready to be a parent." I'd imagine that's where the feathers got ruffled. LOL...but I agree 100% with that statement
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:42:45 GMT -5
Don't worry Tina, I think I'm the one who said something to the effect of "if you can't clean up your diet and stop from indulging in your vices for nine months for the health of your baby you're probably not ready to be a parent." I'd imagine that's where the feathers got ruffled.
Yeah, because it amounts to you saying that I am not ready to be a parent because I've had a couple of drinks in the last few months. Call me crazy for taking that personally.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:43:02 GMT -5
It wasn't my doctor but somebody told me that their doctor said that.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:43:57 GMT -5
Teh difference to me is, one can actually harm the development of the baby while the other can't. So while I "get" what you are saying, I don't think you are comparing apples to oranges.
There's plenty of research that spanking harms children, just like there's plenty of research that alcohol is unsafe during pregnancy. I think it IS apples to apples, because it's one of those things where there's lots of research saying it's okay and lots of research saying it isn't and in the end, it comes down to making whatever choice you as a parent feel is right and hoping your kid turns out okay.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:45:36 GMT -5
Teh difference to me is, one can actually harm the development of the baby while the other can't. So while I "get" what you are saying, I don't think you are comparing apples to oranges.There's plenty of research that spanking harms children, just like there's plenty of research that alcohol is unsafe during pregnancy. I think it IS apples to apples, because it's one of those things where there's lots of research saying it's okay and lots of research saying it isn't and in the end, it comes down to making whatever choice you as a parent feel is right and hoping your kid turns out okay. While there might be studies that claim spanking causes emotional harm, there are no studies out there that claim spanking your child can cause mental retardation...seriously, that is a HUGE difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:45:52 GMT -5
Except that there is medical evidence that one glass of red wine per week is beneficial to the fetus. You are the person carrying the fetus, the father of the fetus or the OBGYN so stay out of it. And there is also medical evidence that no amount of alcohol is safe for a baby...so which evidence is right? Actually there is no research that says that. All the research that was done to say that was done at a moderate level equivalent to one drink per day (either for a full pregnancy or trimester). They never did research at lower levels until recently and those studies either show a benefit or no harm.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:46:02 GMT -5
It wasn't my doctor but somebody told me that their doctor said that. that honestly blows me away...I hope to God that was a reaLLY old doctor and that your friend found a new one...wow!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 29, 2012 14:46:16 GMT -5
Those of you who have been talking about having one drink here or there probably read my statement and got really pissed off. Which is understandable. However, I'm pretty sure it was after the post about special ed kids. My mom was a special ed teacher for years. I tutored some of her kids after school. Some of those kids will spend their entire lives in institutions because of stupid choices on their mother's part during pregnancy. They'll have to live with that their whole lives. One disgustingly selfish and stupid woman who couldn't control her behavior for nine short months ruined whatever chance they would have had at a normal life. It's heartbreaking really.
Do I think that having a glass of wine with dinner now and again is the same as using heroin while pregnant. No. Of course not. However, I don't buy that it's particularly healthy either. Shit, alcohol and caffeine are bad for adults. We all know that. They aren't horribly bad in moderation, but we all know they aren't good for us either. Why would we expect them to be good for developing fetuses?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2012 14:46:51 GMT -5
I agree that those are parental choices but they are not even comparable to drinking alcohol. And spanking (maybe?) and alcohol has studies to support both ways. Is there anything that says breastfeeding is bad for the baby or the mother?
I was referring to the choice of formula over breastmilk. I believe there are studies out there that show that having a negative effect on a baby's development over breastmilk. So again, I DO find the spanking thing quite comparable because depending on who you ask, it can either be a totally acceptable and necessary disciplinary tool, or the first step on the road to serious child abuse. Every parent needs to decide what they feel is an appropriate amount of risk for THEIR personal child.
Some parents simply don't consider spanking unsafe, just like some women simply don't consider drinking alcohol to be unsafe. Are there studies contradicting those viewpoints? You bet! But there also plenty supporting them.
So again, I think it's quite comparable.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2012 14:48:04 GMT -5
And there is also medical evidence that no amount of alcohol is safe for a baby...so which evidence is right? Actually there is no research that says that. All the research that was done to say that was done at a moderate level equivalent to one drink per day (either for a full pregnancy or trimester). They never did research at lower levels until recently and those studies either show a benefit or no harm. There are lots of highly recognized organizations that say there is no way too say that any alcohol is actually safe and a lot of them recommend absolutely no alcohol during pregnancy.
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