trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 8, 2012 7:14:22 GMT -5
Depression is indeed 'hell' for those who suffer clinically from it. Apathy, in the civilised world, is brought on by the lack of effort to understand or improve one's condition, or conditions around one. Individually. One we have no choice, the other we do. I'm sure you will agree there are many 'hells' in this world. Mostly manmade, and from which there is/was seemingly no escape. And religion has been responsible for some of them, unfortunately. I heartily concur................. ;Dquote Hang on. You can't agree. What are we going to 'discuss' now?  |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 8, 2012 7:14:45 GMT -5
'The reality is that all of these situations would steam from acting like an asshole and a psychopath. The relativity of the situation is what I think is amazing'... 'the fault,dear Brutus ,lies not in the stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings'............'William Spokeshave' or...............'the reason I grew up to be a dickhead, is because I AM a dickhead;its not my parents fault, or the fault of anything thats happened to me'(Richard Herring) or....duhhhhhh...(eggy!) |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 8, 2012 7:15:44 GMT -5
sorry trev......................I strongly disagree...................happy now?(dont wanna cause waves............... ;D)
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 8, 2012 7:17:53 GMT -5
now then- back to the topic.................I dont believe in ANYTHING, let alone Heaven, and the crimes that ive committed.............................. ..............a true Philistine and vulgarian,me............... |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 8, 2012 7:19:53 GMT -5
Egg quote or....duhhhhhh...(eggy!) is that a quote from your autobiography  |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 8, 2012 13:34:40 GMT -5
now then- back to the topic.................I dont believe in ANYTHING, let alone Heaven, and the crimes that ive committed.............................. ..............a true Philistine and vulgarian,me............... At least Philistines believed in the afterlife. Good for you Not sure about Vulgarians. (ChittyChitty BangBang). Back to topic. Not convinced by the report. Too many reliances on other reports and statistics gathered from around the world of differing cultures, religions etc. in different times. Quote Belief in heaven, hell and God was assessed with the oral question, “Which, if any, of the following do you believe in?”, followed by a list of concepts including “Heaven,” “Hell” and “God”. Accepted answers were Yes and No. What about the not 'sures'. Did they take a stab at one or the other. These are what I call 'instinctive' questions. They can be answered without real thought. I wonder if the question had been 'Which, if any, of the following do you believe in, and why'. What I call the un-instinctive/non-instinctive questions. Would the answer be the same? Let me explain. I was brought up as a Christian. Over the years I have evaluated my Christian beliefs in line with life's experiences. If I were to be asked the above 'Which, if any, of the following do you believe in?my answer would probably be yes. Why? Because I have spent time coming to that conclusion. I wonder how many of those questioned really do believe. Given time and Why? would their answers still be the same. There are many who profess many things because they have never really thought about the reality of what they 'believe'. I went to church this am and we had a child baptismal service. The parents and godparents were asked to answer several questions and make promises they will never keep. To a 'god' they probably don't believe in. The next time they come to church will probably be to see their daughter married, if it is still in fashion - marriage I mean. People often believe what it is convenient to believe. Cynical old me.  |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 8, 2012 14:30:50 GMT -5
People often believe what it is convenient to believe.
people ALWAYS believe whats convenient,but they only KNOW what is true...........trouble is that belief gets in the way of knowing,tho we all KNOW,,but often under mounds of daft beliefs.............
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 8, 2012 14:31:23 GMT -5
Thats what I believe, anyway......................... |
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 8, 2012 14:39:23 GMT -5
i wonder how that affects crime. Well, a true Buddhist tries to avoid inflicting harm on others, even to the point of not eating animals. They believe in Karma, and not the kind people beg and barter for here. For somebody who always says they think karma is so irrelevant you sure bring it up a lot. I'm just sayin'. Want me to hit you with some so you can feel better?  I find the study interesting too. And have seen it in RL. The ones that say they are Christians the most are the least trusted by people I know. We feel actions speak louder than words. We live in the bible belt. LOL! |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 8, 2012 14:55:43 GMT -5
Thats what I believe, anyway......................... As my old mum would say 'I believe you, thousands wouldn't.' |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 8, 2012 15:12:04 GMT -5
People often believe what it is convenient to believe. people ALWAYS believe whats convenient,but they only KNOW what is true...........trouble is that belief gets in the way of knowing,tho we all KNOW,,but often under mounds of daft beliefs............. Problem always is that we Christians have a different interpretation of the words 'belief' and 'know', from you infidels ooops . |
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jul 9, 2012 1:32:41 GMT -5
I think it works only many levels.. The first being of course that we could nuke ourselves right now.. How about that for hell? I don't think that is likely as there is no profit in a nuclear waste land. It's also possible to choose to live in hell living in our society, just by living in depression and apathy. You see it all over, this whoa is me BS, it makes me sick truthfully. There are of course accounts of people dying and having a darkness surround them like they have never felt, coming back to life and spending their days getting people to turn to the lord. The reality is that all of these situations would steam from acting like an asshole and a psychopath. The relativity of the situation is what I think is amazing...  Just a thought, and I don't disagree with the above, but does anyone really know the meaning of 'eternally'. We are governed in our understanding by the fact that we live by 'time'. Thus we say that we live a 'lifetime'. Faiths (talking in general) talk blithely about eternity without really understanding what they are saying. What is 'eternity'. Billions of billions of billions (Ad infinitum) of years? Or a life without time? Something that we cannot understand. Imagine living long enough to see the universe expand to its limits. Imagine living long enough to explore every known galaxy and every new galaxy to the end of the expanding universe. Having exhausted all that, no time has passed because time is endless, and you still have eternity to live. I would suggest that we cannot truly understand. 'We see through a glass darkly'. Depression is indeed 'hell' for those who suffer clinically from it. Apathy, in the civilised world, is brought on by the lack of effort to understand or improve one's condition, or conditions around one. Individually. One we have no choice, the other we do. I'm sure you will agree there are many 'hells' in this world. Mostly manmade, and from which there is/was seemingly no escape. And religion has been responsible for some of them, unfortunately.  Hey Trevor, been super busy, sorry about the delay.. Good point, I did use the word eternally to loosely, even a Nuked wasteland would only last for 60-70,000 yrs... As far as accounts of people "dying" seeing darkness and being scared to the point of trying to do whatever they can to make the world a better place... I guess that is something that each of us will find out someday... Depression caused by trauma is one thing: death, tragedy, personal violation ect. Depression from apathy is crap, and that is a big part of the problem right now, so many people are just lost.. Man made hell is a terrible thing. Just think what it would have been like 2000 yrs ago, now consider what these texts talk about that were found in the 1940's, that date back to before the Romans started to Canonize the world. The Gospel of Thomas 10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes." 16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone." |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 9, 2012 4:15:43 GMT -5
Adamburgher. Thanks for your reply. I have to go out. Will reply later?
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 9, 2012 12:27:22 GMT -5
Adamburgher. Just interested. You quote from the Gospel of Thomas. Any reason for it. Not a 'gospel' that I would ever use.
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 9, 2012 13:20:47 GMT -5
not DOUBTING Thomas? |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 9, 2012 13:22:35 GMT -5
People often believe what it is convenient to believe. people ALWAYS believe whats convenient,but they only KNOW what is true...........trouble is that belief gets in the way of knowing,tho we all KNOW,,but often under mounds of daft beliefs............. Problem always is that we Christians have a different interpretation of the words 'belief' and 'know', from you infidels ooops . Us infidels want you to 'define your terms'....................... |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 9, 2012 14:08:56 GMT -5
Us infidels want you to 'define your terms'....................... As a gnostic would say. It's all secret, hidden knowledge, you have to seek to find. Seriously. There is no definition that would satisfy a non-believer (and I'm not being rude to you). In fact 'faith', 'belief' and 'knowing' are not definable in human terms when referring to religion. I have no problem saying that they are both indefinable and illogical humanly speaking. . How does one describe a deeply held 'feeling'. However I do believe that those 'feelings' can change as time goes on. Sometimes deepening, sometimes becoming more shallow. Life's experiences and scientific knowledge can lead to a change in opinion. It's rather like you having come through a serious illness. You can describe to a friend how you felt. They will understand only as far as their experiences of illness applies to themselves. Course. I might be wrong.  |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 9, 2012 15:01:27 GMT -5
course youre not wrong,trev- youre a Christian! |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 9, 2012 15:01:47 GMT -5
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jul 9, 2012 15:11:41 GMT -5
Adamburgher. Thanks for your reply. I have to go out. Will reply later? LOL.. Luv the name change BTW... It doesn't matter to me how long it takes for a response, I have 3 little ones and a fourth on the way, we both work so if anything I feel bad because it takes a long time for me to get back to conversations.... I like the Gospel of Thomas because of the history behind all of this. And it's like you said, SEEK and yee shall find... ;D My next K is for you.. www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=117598 |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 10, 2012 4:28:35 GMT -5
LOL.. Luv the name change BTW... It doesn't matter to me how long it takes for a response, I have 3 little ones and a fourth on the way, we both work so if anything I feel bad because it takes a long time for me to get back to conversations.... I know the Lord said 'go forth and multiply', Ham, but i dont think he meant you to take it so much to heart................... |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 10, 2012 5:04:58 GMT -5
Adamburgher. Thanks for your reply. I have to go out. Will reply later? LOL.. Luv the name change BTW... It doesn't matter to me how long it takes for a response, I have 3 little ones and a fourth on the way, we both work so if anything I feel bad because it takes a long time for me to get back to conversations.... I like the Gospel of Thomas because of the history behind all of this. And it's like you said, SEEK and yee shall find... ;D My next K is for you.. Apologies for the error of name. Back later. |
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 10, 2012 5:12:31 GMT -5
course youre not wrong,trev- youre a Christian! Even Christians aren't perfect. My halo is a bit dirty and very lopsided. As for practising the harp, darn, there goes another string. Hope we don't get arthritis in heaven ooops. . Now where did I put my tin hat. |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 11, 2012 4:11:27 GMT -5
perfection could well be a rather subjective quantity;looked at like that, none of us are doing too bad, tho try that viewpoint on the 'poor and needy'(ME!),and youll get a rather 'subjective' answer................... ;D
so even 'perfection looks like a bag of worms(can?)
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 11, 2012 5:50:10 GMT -5
perfection could well be a rather subjective quantity;looked at like that, none of us are doing too bad, tho try that viewpoint on the 'poor and needy'(ME!),and youll get a rather 'subjective' answer................... ;D so even 'perfection looks like a bag of worms(can?) My problem is that I try to be perfect in my imperfections, and imperfect in my perfections. It gets a bit confusing at times. |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 11, 2012 6:31:47 GMT -5
dont worry,Trev-at the risk of being boring,I'll quote Omar again...........'some folks of a surly tapster tell'......(you know the rest,Im sure......if not, google it- its good)
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 11, 2012 7:26:08 GMT -5
Keep trying to log out last 2 days but it won't let me. Any ideas anyone, please?
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jackthelad
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Post by jackthelad on Jul 11, 2012 7:57:28 GMT -5
Keep trying to log out last 2 days but it won't let me. Any ideas anyone, please? Sorry Trevor, there is no help coming from my way, i am a numpty where computers are concerned, i can switch the computer on and off, what happens in between is a miricle. Sometimes these thing happen without reason, and sort themselves out the same way. |
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egginbonce
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Post by egginbonce on Jul 11, 2012 8:16:13 GMT -5
nno needto log out,trev- I never do.............just tick the box to stay logged in(unless u dont want ur missus to see the filth uve been posting.................. ;D)
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trevorw2539
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Post by trevorw2539 on Jul 11, 2012 9:40:08 GMT -5
nno needto log out,trev- I never do.............just tick the box to stay logged in(unless u dont want ur missus to see the filth uve been posting.................. ;D) No Missus, thank heavens. Ooops. If any wives see this. my apologies. I'm sure you are all good and dutiful wives, obeying your husbands in all things. Hang on. We're not in Biblical days are we. Oh dear. |
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