Standardized testing to push out music electives?

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

For those who don't click links, I posted the first half of the article below.


baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/5/23/fcat_preperations_co.html

PALMETTO --

Preparing for the FCAT could force a Manatee County school to eliminate a music program.

Buffalo Creek Middle School in Palmetto could be losing their orchestra program next year.

Principal Matthew Gruhl said it’s something he doesn’t want to see happen. However, he might be forced to cut the program.

He said the decision will be based on FCAT Reading results, which are expected to come in early July. If the results are low, he said he’ll be required to add an extra FCAT reading class. To make room for this class, an elective will need to be eliminated.

Gruhl said he’s looking at orchestra because it is least popular elective at the school. Recently, he asked the students to rate the 10 electives offered at school, and orchestra came in last place.

The news of the possible elimination of orchestra is upsetting to students, like sixth-grader Lauren Olmsted.

[chiver78]

that is not cool. please keep us posted, Cheesy.

[Deleted]

there's no money in music, so why bother? Kids don't need to learn anything that's not directly related to their intended career path.

[zibazinski]

It's sad indeed but as schools have to pay more for things schools should not be paying for in the first place and since we keep electing the bozos who dream up this stuff, some children will suffer.

[thyme4change]

The whole music program or just the orchestra? Stringed instruments aren't the most popular or the easiest to teach, and orchestras are struggling all over. Do they still have a symphonic or marching band? Or a choir, jazz choir or musical theater group?

[Deleted]

We have an awesome music program. Our kids start band early and they have a jazz band, an orchestra, marching band and string instrument band. The music teachers are phenomonal. We need music and gym and recess.

[chiver78]

May 24, 2012 14:15:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The whole music program or just the orchestra? Stringed instruments aren't the most popular or the easiest to teach, and orchestras are struggling all over. Do they still have a symphonic or marching band? Or a choir, jazz choir or musical theater group?

so because it's unpopular or difficult, it should be cut? sounds like we ought to cut Calculus too then.

[swamp]

May 24, 2012 14:39:07 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

May 24, 2012 14:15:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The whole music program or just the orchestra? Stringed instruments aren't the most popular or the easiest to teach, and orchestras are struggling all over. Do they still have a symphonic or marching band? Or a choir, jazz choir or musical theater group?

so because it's unpopular or difficult, it should be cut? sounds like we ought to cut Calculus too then.

I think that's an awesome idea. Calculus sucked.

[thyme4change]

so because it's unpopular or difficult, it should be cut?

Not because it is difficult, but because it is unpopular. If you have to hire a whole person to teach 9 people out of 1,000 how to play the violin, then maybe that isn't the best use of the school's money. Just like I don't think we should mandate that every school has an elective for Cricket, even if there aren't enough people to make up a whole team (is Cricket a team sport?)

I am a band geek. I think the music program is very important. I think all schools should have some music and some sports. But if you have 10 programs and you can't afford them all, you should probably cut the one with the least participation - especially if there are other programs in the general discipline that people could transition to.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2012 14:06:43 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

there's no money in music, so why bother? Kids don't need to learn anything that's not directly related to their intended career path.

Because the idea of school is to teach kids a variety of things so that they are well rounded people. Sorry, my 10 yr old hasn't decided on her intended career path yet.

[swamp]

May 24, 2012 14:50:13 GMT -5 @shooby said:

May 24, 2012 14:06:43 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

there's no money in music, so why bother? Kids don't need to learn anything that's not directly related to their intended career path.

Because the idea of school is to teach kids a variety of things so that they are well rounded people. Sorry, my 10 yr old hasn't decided on her intended career path yet.

I'm sorry your 10 year old is destined to be a failure.

[Deleted]

Schools need more recess. The kids should be sent out everyday after lunch to play on the playground. I would bet that would vastly improve the behavior of many kids just to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

I guess what really pisses me off is cutting anything to have a class that teaches a GD standardized test! Teaching the test takes away from what the kids are SUPPOSED to be learning in regular curriculum.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

May 24, 2012 14:51:09 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Schools need more recess. The kids should be sent out everyday after lunch to play on the playground. I would bet that would vastly improve the behavior of many kids just to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.

[chiver78]

May 24, 2012 14:51:09 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Schools need more recess. The kids should be sent out everyday after lunch to play on the playground. I would bet that would vastly improve the behavior of many kids just to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.

I'd absolutely agree with that. but I don't see why it's a stretch to hire a single person to teach all stringed instruments, or find someone that can teach more than one orchestral instrument. there ARE kids that want to learn those instruments, even if it's not a whole football team's worth of kids. I took lessons from the band director's husband - he taught flute, clarinet, sax, and oboe.

[thyme4change]

Schools need more recess. The kids should be sent out everyday after lunch to play on the playground. I would bet that would vastly improve the behavior of many kids just to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.

What school cancelled recess? Holy crap.

[Deleted]

I think all this standardized testing and push, push , push academics is ridiculous. I am one parent who happens to want my children to be children. They have all of their lives to work and have a career. At this time, i want a balance of learning some academics but also opening up the worlds of art and music and sports and all of that. We need LESS standardized tests. I don't care how my child ranks compared to China. I want my kids to enjoy and participate in other things.
And, at our school they take them out for recess in K-3, then after that it is very hit and miss. No wonder there are so many obese kids. They won't even take them outside unless the weather is perfect. Take my kid out everyday barring a monsoon or hurricane, please.

[taz157]

May 24, 2012 14:51:09 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Schools need more recess. The kids should be sent out everyday after lunch to play on the playground. I would bet that would vastly improve the behavior of many kids just to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.

[zibazinski]

Most schools don't have recess anymore. It is now PE and it is a class, complete with testing.

[thyme4change]

Most schools don't have recess anymore. It is now PE and it is a class, complete with testing.

Really??!! Even primary schools? Or are we just talking about high school?

My kids still have recess twice a day, and they will through 4th grade. I know the middle school does have recess - but I don't know the particulars. And that only applies to one middle school that I know of. I can't wait to find out.

[busymom]

Studying music helps in brain development. I've pointed out to DD at the awards ceremonies at her school that a lot of the kids that stuck it out in music thru their senior year are taking home those scholarships.


If you're going to cut a class due to lack of popularity, I vote for algebra!

[thyme4change]

Studying music helps in brain development.

True - but does a wind instrument develop your brain less than a string instrument? I'm still not clear on if they cut the whole music program, or just the string portion. I'm also unclear on who owns the instruments. Our school owned a lot of our bigger instruments and it cost a heck of a lot more than "just a single person." In fact, cutting the orchestra wouldn't have saved much in salaries, because the staff would still be necessary to support the other music programs (all 2 of the staff.) However, the cost savings would exist.

I'm not really clear if this was a cost thing, or a time thing either. The article wasn't very helpful.

[zibazinski]

Primary school. I taught PE my last few decades of teaching.

[thyme4change]

Wow. I wonder what the actual percentage of primary schools are that don't have recess. No offense - I totally believe that the district or area you taught in did eliminate recess in favor of PE, but I think we have some ancedotal evidence here. These decisions are local - not national, so I can't believe that mine is the only school in the entire USA that still has recess. "Most" would indicate that 50%+1 have done away with recess. I would really like to see some stats on that one!

[muttleynfelix]

May 24, 2012 16:55:54 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Wow. I wonder what the actual percentage of primary schools are that don't have recess. No offense - I totally believe that the district or area you taught in did eliminate recess in favor of PE, but I think we have some ancedotal evidence here. These decisions are local - not national, so I can't believe that mine is the only school in the entire USA that still has recess. "Most" would indicate that 50%+1 have done away with recess. I would really like to see some stats on that one!

I would too. I was looking up my school district after layoffs thread and their master schedule still shows recess, PE and music for the elementary schools (k-6). Granted I am in a super small district. Not sure of the total numbers but 7-12 is only about 300 students.

[Deleted]

I agree that schools cannot teach everything and be everything to everybody. I do think it is very important for schools to have and support some type of band and/or music program. They do have to draw a line somewhere. Our school does not teach string instruments. If you want your kid to play the violin, then you have to pay for and take private lessons.

[moxie]

How are ya, shooby?

[Deleted]

Great, what's shakin' mox? ;D

[Formerly SK]

My elementary aged kids get 3 recesses/day.

They also get PE 2x/wk and music 2x/wk. I have no idea how normal this is.

[Deleted]

3 recesses A DAY? In a 6 hour day?