NY, D.C. & 40 other Dioceses & Orgs Sue Obama

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

cnsnews.com/news/article/breaking-cardinal-dolan-ny-cardinal-wuerl-dc-notre-dame-and-40-other-catholic-dioceses

The dioceses and organizations, in different combinations, are filing 12 different lawsuits filed in federal courts around the country.

The Archdiocese of Washington, D.C. has established a special website--preservereligiousfreedom.org--to explain its lawsuit and present news and developments concerning it.

"This lawsuit is about an unprecedented attack by the federal government on one of America’s most cherished freedoms: the freedom to practice one’s religion without government interference," the archdiocese says on the website. "It is not about whether people have access to certain services; it is about whether the government may force religious institutions and individuals to facilitate and fund services which violate their religious beliefs."

[weltschmerz]

Cry me a river. 97% of Catholic women use birth control.

[weltschmerz]

Reuters) -- Some 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women have used contraceptive methods banned by the church, research published on Wednesday showed.

A new report from the Guttmacher Institute, the nonprofit sexual health research organization, shows that only 2 percent of Catholic women, even those who regularly attend church, rely on natural family planning.

The latest data shows practices of Catholic women are in line with women of other religious affiliations and adult American women in general.

"In real-life America, contraceptive use and strong religious beliefs are highly compatible," said the report's lead author Rachel Jones.

She said most sexually active women who do not want to become pregnant practice contraception, and most use highly effective methods like sterilization, the pill, or the intrauterine device (IUD).

"This is true for Evangelicals and Mainline Protestants, and it is true for Catholics, despite the Catholic hierarchy's strenuous opposition to contraception," Jones said.
www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/98-percent-catholic-women-birth-control_n_849060.html

[djAdvocate]

cns is the least reliable, most biased news source i have ever seen. i can't imagine anyone who can read this taking it seriously. it makes littlegreenfootballs and Ann Coulter seem like Pulitzer material.

[Deleted]

Cry me a river. 97% of Catholic women use birth control.

Weltschmerz I'm guessing that you missed or don't understand the whole freedom of religion thing. Well I'm not big on the issue myself except for the fact that something should be a personal preference & the government shouldn't be involved in it.

[weltschmerz]

May 21, 2012 18:26:20 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Cry me a river. 97% of Catholic women use birth control.

Weltschmerz I'm guessing that you missed or don't understand the whole freedom of religion thing. Well I'm not big on the issue myself except for the fact that something should be a personal preference & the government shouldn't be involved in it.

People are free to worship whichever deity they want.
However, howling about the the evils of contraception while everyone is on contraception seems rather disingenuous to me. It seems to be pissing off a handful of old men who never had sex.

[djAdvocate]

May 21, 2012 18:29:13 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

May 21, 2012 18:26:20 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Cry me a river. 97% of Catholic women use birth control.

Weltschmerz I'm guessing that you missed or don't understand the whole freedom of religion thing. Well I'm not big on the issue myself except for the fact that something should be a personal preference & the government shouldn't be involved in it.

People are free to worship whichever deity they want.
However, howling about the the evils of contraception while everyone is on contraception seems rather disingenuous to me. It seems to be pissing off a handful of old men who never had sex.

or at least the kind that might conceivably produce offspring......

[billisonboard]

Message deleted by billisonboard.

[Deleted]

"People are free to worship whichever deity they want."

I still think you don't get the concept of freedom of religion. Or the freedom to not have the federal gov't tell you what to do or not do for no good reason.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 21, 2012 18:00:54 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Cry me a river. 97% of Catholic women use birth control.

Good for them. Has ZERO to do with the issue.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 21, 2012 18:29:13 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

May 21, 2012 18:26:20 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Cry me a river. 97% of Catholic women use birth control.

Weltschmerz I'm guessing that you missed or don't understand the whole freedom of religion thing. Well I'm not big on the issue myself except for the fact that something should be a personal preference & the government shouldn't be involved in it.

People are free to worship whichever deity they want.
However, howling about the the evils of contraception while everyone is on contraception seems rather disingenuous to me. It seems to be pissing off a handful of old men who never had sex.

Issue has nothing to do with contraception.

[weltschmerz]

I understand. Birth control violates a deeply-held and sacred religious belief that most Cathlolics ignored up til now. That about the size of it?

[Don Perignon]

Gee... will the Jehovah Witnesses follow suit and sue to prevent Health Insurance providers from paying for blood transfusions?
Will Jews and Moslems get to sue the government for subsidizing pork production?

Perhaps it's time for the militant religionistas to be reminded why we American citizens separated Church and State.

Perhaps they should ponder this: If churches paid real estate taxes on the property they amass, tax rates could be reduced for the general population. That is a fact.

[mmhmm]

I'm going to move this to the Religious Discussion thread. The writing is on the wall, and I'm reading it very, very clearly.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[cereb]

"Issue has nothing to do with contraception."


It has EVERYTHING to do with it.

[Deleted]

"That about the size of it?"

No.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gee... will the Jehovah Witnesses follow suit and sue to prevent Health Insurance providers from paying for blood transfusions?"

What does this have to do this topic? Nobody is trying to prevent health insurance providers from doing anything.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This is NOT a religious discussion. This isn't about church doctrine, or the Bible, or any of that. It's about the freedom to practice religion contained in the FIRST AMENDMENT to the CONSTITUTION which is NOT a religious document.

This is about the government being sued by a religious institution for violating the Constitution with its new law. This is about the political philosophy of the United States. The doctrine prohibited, or infringed upon could be ANYTHING, and is not relevant to the discussion.

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/notre-dame-catholic-dioceses-sue-obama-over-contraception-mandate/

BTW- I found the story on ABC's POLITICAL PUNCH.

[Tennesseer]

What would Jesus do paul?

[billisonboard]

When religious institutions move into areas that are not religious in nature, they should not expect to be protected in that area under the First Amendment.

[Opti]

It is not a lack of freedom to practice religion they are suing about, it is the ability to practice their religion as they see fit and get around a government mandate concerning insurance and possibly the one concerning adoptions as well. They aren't willing to take the options that would get them out of this conflict so they are planning to bend the government and the people to their will.

Personally I think theologically speaking the Catholic church has always had a very weak biblical reason for forbidding birth control just because of the be fruitful and multiply statement. Female Catholics apparently agree given their use of birth control. I'm surprised given the conspiracy theories I see posted constantly on this forum it isn't obvious that the Vatican wants Catholics to breed more than others so they always have the numbers in their favor. Plus people constantly working to support a large brood probably don't have the energy to quibble with the church's policies.

[workpublic]

what are the other religions stance on this?
Catholics tend to be very liberal.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

It is not a lack of freedom to practice religion they are suing about, it is the ability to practice their religion as they see fit and get around a government mandate concerning insurance and possibly the one concerning adoptions as well. They aren't willing to take the options that would get them out of this conflict so they are planning to bend the government and the people to their will.

So, you would agree with a decision to hire only Catholics, and either require the conversion of, or fire all the current workers who are not Catholic? That's one solution.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

But the real issue is this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Congress doesn't have the authority to make a law that prohibits the Catholic Church- or any other religious institution from the free exercise of their religion. Employees have the freedom not to work at these institutions, but because a religious organization has irreligious employees does not automatically secularize that organization.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I think the Obama regime has also underestimated the implications for the 2012 elections. Catholics are a very big traditionally Democrat voting bloc, as are Latinos (who tend to be Catholic).

In a squeaker of an election, which this is going to be, losing even a handful of votes of devout Catholics who see their faith as under assault isn't going to help Obama.

[mmhmm]

Paul, I'm going to post this once. If a thread is moved to another forum, DO NOT start the same thread again in the forum from which it was moved. This thread, regardless of what YOU think, or where YOU found it, is discussing religious doctrine as it relates to government. We have a forum for the discussion of all things religion, and this isn't it. I'm combining this thread with your previous thread. If you start another, I'll simply remove it. You are welcome to contact moonbeam if you have a problem understanding why this thread is being moved.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This is nothing more than stifling debate by moving a topic you don't like to the dark corner of the boards. Period. I'm afraid this forum has earned a time out. See you...whenever.

[Opti]

May 22, 2012 8:20:24 GMT -5 workpublic said:

what are the other religions stance on this?
Catholics tend to be very liberal.

Really? I think of Catholicism as a conservative religion.
Individual Catholics cover the continuum with those being very liberal being the minority IMO.


ETA: I'm sure the church will try to get their people to believe their religion is under attack, but we will see what happens. Those who are anti-gay already won't vote for Obama so perhaps there are 2% who don't use contraception minus those who don't vote in play.
Enough to swing a close election, but its only May so who knows.

[Opti]

May 22, 2012 8:28:27 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

It is not a lack of freedom to practice religion they are suing about, it is the ability to practice their religion as they see fit and get around a government mandate concerning insurance and possibly the one concerning adoptions as well. They aren't willing to take the options that would get them out of this conflict so they are planning to bend the government and the people to their will.

So, you would agree with a decision to hire only Catholics, and either require the conversion of, or fire all the current workers who are not Catholic? That's one solution.

Not sure what I think about that, so perhaps I'll get back to you.
My guess is when the constitution was created the framers had no idea that religious instititutions would be as large as the Catholic Church and have their hands in things that were not just religious in nature such as preaching, worshipping, and teaching. For all I know the organization of the Catholic Church worldwide is larger than the US government and does not always use that influence for good. Catholics were not founders of this nation as they were pretty dominant in England at the time.

[mmhmm]

May 22, 2012 9:09:17 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

This is nothing more than stifling debate by moving a topic you don't like to the dark corner of the boards. Period. I'm afraid this forum has earned a time out. See you...whenever.

Debate can take place here just as well as in the P&M forum, paul, as long as it remains civil. What you choose to do is up to you but you don't make the decisions for this forum. Moonbeam does.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[mmhmm]

An interesting article on "the Catholic vote" that ties neatly into this discussion:

nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/21/11797240-decision-2012-and-the-myth-of-the-catholic-vote?lite