Money, Friends and Respect

[maryjane]

Have you ever lost respect for a friend because of how they handle their money? Did that loss of respect damage the relationship?

One of my good friends is essentially a kept woman. She doesn't work and lives with her BF who pays her mortgage, bought her two cars in the past year (totaling 100k) and has given her a black card for spending. She claims that he is desperate to marry her without a prenup, but I have no way of knowing if this is true.

Her relationship with money and reality have both suffered as a result of her arrangement. She can't seem to get anywhere on time, even at the crack of 1 p.m., talks about how poor people who only make 150k/year are and how she is "too frugal." She also claims she can make more in one business deal a year than she could working. If she actually made any deals, this might hold more water. I have lost respect for her.

I am not really friends with people I don't respect, so I think that our relationship will eventually suffer or dissolve because of money. Has money impacted your friendships?

Edit: Also, do you think that friends with bad spending habits are "bad influences?"

[Angel!]

I have a few friends I don't hang out with often simply because much of what they enjoy is too expensive for me & they don't seem to comprehend I don't have quite the same income as them. They were disappointed we didn't want to buy new dirtbikes to go riding with them. They often have suggestions of work I need done on my house & seem to think I am stupid for not doing it. Yes, I understand new windows & attic insulation will save some on utilities, but that doesn't mean I have the money or that those are a priority for me.

I have another friend I don't see often since I learned of her financial situation. Our thing was lunch & then to go shopping & she usually would buy quite a bit when shopping. It turns out she had something like $20K in CC debt from clothes/shoes/makeup/books & she can't afford the payments & part of this was due to the fact she is bi-polar. I felt awful when I found out because I was always the one to invite her out to go shopping & while I knew she was bi-polar, I had no idea she couldn't afford the stuff she was buying. We hang out occassionally now, but I feel like I can't invite her to lunch/shop because she clearly has a problem & I don't want to make it worse. I know her shopping isn't my fault, but still I kind of see it as inviting an alcoholic out to a bar, which seems rude & unthoughtful.

[quince]

Nope.

(And Nope.)

I know people who spend way more than they have, and it's not my problem. If they're good people who are kind to others and have other things going for them, why should I care how they handle money? It's the point at which they actually hurt others or act like others SHOULD bail them out or take care of them at which respect is lost, and that's not so much how they handle money, but how they abuse other people.

[thyme4change]

I don't know if I would phrase it exactly the same way - but I think the answer is a sort-of yes. I've had several friends who have continually made decisions that have put them in financial peril. That doesn't bother me, as that is their yoke to pull. But then the complaining. My husband almost never talks to his childhood best friend anymore because after he spent like child all through graduate school (weekend vacations every 6-8 weeks, designer clothes, Sunday ticket, new car, renting a house with his girlfriend, instead of an apartment, etc. etc.) he now complains constantly about how "trapped" he feels by his oppressive student loan payments. He also criticized my husband during school (your car is crappy, why don't you ever go to vegas with me, what do you mean you can't afford cable with all the sports packages) while racking up all this debt. That would be bad enough, but now his reasoning is that women with husbands shouldn't work, because they are taking money away from men who should be supporting their family.

He isn't the only whiner we know that made their bed, and now is crying about it. But, he is probably the most egregious example.

[maryjane]

May 17, 2012 18:29:02 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

That would be bad enough, but now his reasoning is that women with husbands shouldn't work, because they are taking money away from men who should be supporting their family.

Wow. That is a special kind of wacky and entitled.

[thyme4change]

My theory on him is that his wife was working and seemed to be fairly professional when they first met, but she can't keep a job to save her life. She is one of those people that can get a job in two days. She has managed Dr offices, placed temps, was an admin, etc. etc. She could be making $45k at the drop of a hat. But, as time went on, she would do these whack job things like quit because they changed the paint. And then she had babies. Now she says she can't go back to work because she's been out of the workforce too long - but I think it is because she is 40 years old and her resume looks like a grocery list. I bet she's never had a one-year anniversary at a job.

So, I think he is jealous of men that have a wife that brings home a decent amount of money. Instead of taking it out on his own wife and destroying his marriage, he has this random bit of misogyny that lashes out at working married women, and hold them responsible for his mistakes.

[maryjane]

May 17, 2012 18:41:19 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

So, I think he is jealous of men that have a wife that brings home a decent amount of money. Instead of taking it out on his own wife and destroying his marriage, he has this random bit of misogyny that lashes out at working married women, and hold them responsible for his mistakes.

I have seen this line of reasoning a lot with people who marry wacky spouses. You can either think that your spouse is crazy or that the rest of the world is crazy. If you want to keep your marriage, I guess that you think that the world is crazy. Being the only sane people on the planet seems like it is hard on couples like this (and all of the "crazy" people around them).

[thyme4change]

I feel bad for the guy. Because he feels this way, he has alienated a lot of people. Which just makes him more lonely and unhappy. He is just a very, very jealous person. He just feels like he should have what they have - everything. So, if one person gets a new car, and another person gets a big house, and a third person buys a boat, he feels he should have a car, a house and a boat. I guess some people just don't grow up.

BTW - he was the super-star athlete in high school. He had straight A's - top of the class. His future was so bright, he had to wear shades. I think he's got the glory-years problem.

[cronewitch]

I respected a neighbor when I first met her. She was living in a house raising a daughter as a bookkeeper in the home. Turns out her parents bought the house and rented to her cheap. Then her parents had to pay a vet bill for her and put tires on her van. I don't know why she didn't take a job since she couldn't support herself self employed her DD was 16.

I was still friends with her but lost respect. We both had dogs and went to dog shows and her daughter cleaned my house and showed my dog for me. I just can't respect a middle aged adult still sponging of parents.

[maryjane]

May 18, 2012 2:26:13 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I just can't respect a middle aged adult still sponging of parents.

Crone, I agree with you. I have a family member who will turn 40 this year and is still on financial life support from parents and grandparents. It is a tough spot for the family because she has three kids. I imagine it would be really hard to cut of your kid/grandkids, but I think in the end, not cutting her off is going to be much harder on all the generations involved.

[Deleted]

My friends are my friends because i like them. They don't always act, do , live as i would or vice versa. I really don't view that as having much to do with whether they are my friend are not. Some people are just stupid with money. Some people are stupid with all kinds of things. I am sure i do my share of stupid as well. Oh well. I might think that they could make better decisions but who couldn't?

[happyhoix]

Hmm, well, I had two friends who were both spenders with lots of debt (one was to the point that creditors were calling her at work) but I don't think I lost respect for them because of that - one of them had a baby with a married man (yeah, deep in debt, still living with her mom at 30, had a baby with an unavailable man and wouldn't give it up for adoption) and the other one had an affair with a co-worker which broke up both their marriages. I think it was the bad decisions in the bedroom that made me loose respect for them, more than the money problems.

My last boss was one of those who spent what he earned. Expensive remodel of his basement into a home theater, $8000 trip to Sandals, $7000 trip to Disney, eating out almost ever night (even though his wife is a SAHM) - but he's a nice person, hard worker, loves his wife and family, was always a good boss to me, never whined about not having money, joked about working until he was 80, so I still respect him.

[resolution]

I have a couple of friends that are bad with money and it doesn't affect the friendship. If they ask for advice I will give it and then nag for a short time after they ignore it. Then we drop it and go back to normal. My main concern is what they will do when they are older and their parents have passed and are no longer there to bail them out.

I worry about my sister too. I always figured she would be ok because she would have half of mom and dad's money, but lately her tastes are so expensive that mom and dad's money won't be enough.

[Deleted]

Being dumb with money does not disqualify someone from being a good human being and person. Some of the most wonderful people i know are not so hot in the finance dept. And, some of the worst people i know are very smart financially. We all have areas we could improve upon. I don't sit in judgement of my friend's lives. They can live how they want. I don't have to approve of their choices nor do they of mine. And, sometimes it takes people years to wise up and sometimes they do.

[resolution]

May 18, 2012 6:55:57 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Being dumb with money does not disqualify someone from being a good human being and person. Some of the most wonderful people i know are not so hot in the finance dept. And, some of the worst people i know are very smart financially. We all have areas we could improve upon. I don't sit in judgement of my friend's lives. They can live how they want. I don't have to approve of their choices nor do they of mine. And, sometimes it takes people years to wise up and sometimes they do.

I would worry about their money skills if they wanted to start a business with me, but money has nothing to do with inviting them over for dinner and wii bowling.

[midjd]

I have lost respect for a few friends/family members in part because of their financial habits - but in every case, the money mismanagement was just a symptom of a larger issue (cheating, addiction, etc.), and I think my lack of respect was due more to their repeated poor choices than their money habits specifically.

E.g. - one of DH's cousins cheated on her husband, he divorced her, she got arrested for DUI, lost her job, and is now working part-time at a nail salon. Another cousin quit his job, cashed out his 401(k), and married a woman with a bunch of kids. He brags about the "free food" they get with food stamps and needles DH's sister (a working mom) about "how sad it is when a parent can't stay home with their kids."

In both cases, their attitude is that the world owes them something, and if they can't get ahead, it's because of something beyond their control - that's a turnoff to me. Seems that attitude often goes hand-in-hand with money troubles.

[Deleted]

Yes. But, there are plenty of people with money who become very laviscious, self centered, arrogant, and materialistic. Human nature is human nature and runs the full gamut whether you are rich or poor.

[midjd]

I think that was the point of the OP's example.

[Deleted]

May 17, 2012 17:39:43 GMT -5 @maryjane said:

Have you ever lost respect for a friend because of how they handle their money? Did that loss of respect damage the relationship?

One of my good friends is essentially a kept woman. She doesn't work and lives with her BF who pays her mortgage, bought her two cars in the past year (totaling 100k) and has given her a black card for spending. She claims that he is desperate to marry her without a prenup, but I have no way of knowing if this is true.

Her relationship with money and reality have both suffered as a result of her arrangement. She can't seem to get anywhere on time, even at the crack of 1 p.m., talks about how poor people who only make 150k/year are and how she is "too frugal." She also claims she can make more in one business deal a year than she could working. If she actually made any deals, this might hold more water. I have lost respect for her.

I am not really friends with people I don't respect, so I think that our relationship will eventually suffer or dissolve because of money. Has money impacted your friendships?

Edit: Also, do you think that friends with bad spending habits are "bad influences?"

I don't think this is a money issue - I think it's a "your friend has an ugly attitude" issue.

[skubikky]

May 17, 2012 17:39:43 GMT -5 @maryjane said:

Have you ever lost respect for a friend because of how they handle their money? Did that loss of respect damage the relationship?

One of my good friends is essentially a kept woman. She doesn't work and lives with her BF who pays her mortgage, bought her two cars in the past year (totaling 100k) and has given her a black card for spending. She claims that he is desperate to marry her without a prenup, but I have no way of knowing if this is true.

Her relationship with money and reality have both suffered as a result of her arrangement. She can't seem to get anywhere on time, even at the crack of 1 p.m., talks about how poor people who only make 150k/year are and how she is "too frugal." She also claims she can make more in one business deal a year than she could working. If she actually made any deals, this might hold more water. I have lost respect for her.

I am not really friends with people I don't respect, so I think that our relationship will eventually suffer or dissolve because of money. Has money impacted your friendships?

Edit: Also, do you think that friends with bad spending habits are "bad influences?"

Sounds more like you just don't like how she treats you. Also her views are skewed based on her fiscal lifestyle and therefore are very different than yours.

I will also venture a guess that under the surface that you're a bit jealous and probably feel that she doesn't "deserve" the comparative life of ease because she hasn't "earned" it.

Many people have a very well defined sense of justice when it comes to what they perceive others are or are not entitled to.

[skubikky]

May 18, 2012 6:55:57 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Being dumb with money does not disqualify someone from being a good human being and person. Some of the most wonderful people i know are not so hot in the finance dept. And, some of the worst people i know are very smart financially. We all have areas we could improve upon. I don't sit in judgement of my friend's lives. They can live how they want. I don't have to approve of their choices nor do they of mine. And, sometimes it takes people years to wise up and sometimes they do.

I think you nailed it when you mention approval or better yet, disapproval of others lifestyle. The OP doesn't respect her friend probably as much for her being disrespectful as well as being a "kept woman".

[Deleted]

Well, in the reverse, not sure i want a friend who is judging my lifestyle either. If her friend wants to be a "kept woman" (whatever that is), that is up to her friend to live her life on her terms. The OP isn't paying her bills why should that bother her?
I am sure i dont' live my life in the way others might prescribe either.

[skubikky]

May 18, 2012 8:53:06 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Well, in the reverse, not sure i want a friend who is judging my lifestyle either. If her friend wants to be a "kept woman" (whatever that is), that is up to her friend to live her life on her terms. The OP isn't paying her bills why should that bother her?
I am sure i dont' live my life in the way others might prescribe either.

Exactly

[Deleted]

sku -

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I have with my cousins. One of my cousins (like a sister to me) recently did the purchase a second home while still owing on the first one because they "deserved" a bigger home and were not happy that their first home lost value (They bought in 2009 and thought it was the bottom of the market). I suspect that they are going to walk away from the first house (They say they are going to "try to sell it" but I know that they don't have the $$ to bring to the table. I don't know if "try to sell" means "try to force the bank into approving a short sale" or what).

My issue isn't with that so much (lthough I do think that it is highly unethical). My bigger issue is that they are very conservative politically and are always raving about people on food stamps, TANF, disability and saying that the govt should cut them off. They feel that it is their right to default on a house (because it "isn't fair that our house lost value") while all of these "slackers shouldn't take govt money and should have personal responsibility". Ummmm... personal responsibility works several ways.. To me, it seems like the attitude of a child, throwing a temper tantrum (No fair! No fair! No fair!). It doesn't instill a lot of rescpect...

[happyhoix]

May 18, 2012 8:53:06 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Well, in the reverse, not sure i want a friend who is judging my lifestyle either. If her friend wants to be a "kept woman" (whatever that is), that is up to her friend to live her life on her terms. The OP isn't paying her bills why should that bother her?
I am sure i dont' live my life in the way others might prescribe either.

From what I understood from the OP's post, her friend annoyed her because she considers people who make less than $150,000 poor, when in fact she earns no salary at all, and because she talks about how much she 'could' make in a business deal, when in fact she makes no business deals at all.

I would find this annoying too. Kind of like women who talk about what a fabulous mother they would be and how awful other women's mothering skills are, when in fact they have no children of their own. Or women who brag about what fabulous cooks they are, if they ever actually decided to cook anything, which they never do.

And I could paint like Monet, if I ever bought some paint and brushes.

I would find that annoying, too, and probably wouldn't be friends with someone who liked to self aggrandize that way. On the other hand, if one of my friends had all her bills paid by a sugar daddy, I woudn't un-friend her on that alone. That would be between her and the sugar daddy.

[Miss Tequila]

I wouldn't judge her for landing a sugar daddy...that's my dream! But instead of being greatful it sounds like she has turned into a snotty bitch...for that reason alone, I would be secretly waiting for the sugar daddy to tire of her and move on to someone younger and prettier...let's face it, that almost always happens!

I do have zero tolerance for those people that sponge from others. In my adult life I have never accepted a dime from anyone outside of my husband. I have zero respect for anyone that runs to mommy/daddy for money. I would feel like a piece of shit failure if anyone ever had to give me money...on the plus side, my mom doesn't have a pot to piss in so that would never happen!lol

[Formerly SK]

The only people I can think of that I've lost respect for is some friends who are actually pretty successful financially. But they have grown to really worship money and are always bragging about how much they make or how little they spent on something. It seems to consume them. If they meet someone new and go to their house for dinner, they'll spend an hour gushing to me about how nice the person's house was. All of their goals and lifestyle choices seem centered around money (and the perceived social status that they think comes with it).

It probably is more of a general "growing apart" issue than a strict financial one, but I thought I'd throw it out there since it is sort of the opposite experience of other people's posts.

[maryjane]

May 18, 2012 9:20:43 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 18, 2012 8:53:06 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Well, in the reverse, not sure i want a friend who is judging my lifestyle either. If her friend wants to be a "kept woman" (whatever that is), that is up to her friend to live her life on her terms. The OP isn't paying her bills why should that bother her?
I am sure i dont' live my life in the way others might prescribe either.

From what I understood from the OP's post, her friend annoyed her because she considers people who make less than $150,000 poor, when in fact she earns no salary at all, and because she talks about how much she 'could' make in a business deal, when in fact she makes no business deals at all.

I would find this annoying too. Kind of like women who talk about what a fabulous mother they would be and how awful other women's mothering skills are, when in fact they have no children of their own. Or women who brag about what fabulous cooks they are, if they ever actually decided to cook anything, which they never do.

And I could paint like Monet, if I ever bought some paint and brushes.

I would find that annoying, too, and probably wouldn't be friends with someone who liked to self aggrandize that way. On the other hand, if one of my friends had all her bills paid by a sugar daddy, I woudn't un-friend her on that alone. That would be between her and the sugar daddy.

Happy, you got me!

I don't care that my friend is a kept woman. I am not jealous of what she has and I don't think about if she deserves or doesn't deserve it. I worry about her more than envy her since she has no marketable skills and has not had a job for years. All that stands between her and a crisis is the whim of her benefactor.

I do think that spending all of this time/energy/$ thinking about herself has impacted her personality. She has changed. She shows up really late for lunch, doesn't apologize and then talks about how busy she is or how she "couldn't" get up. She never would have done this 5 years ago. I do attribute these changes to the her lifestyle, and maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't have any other/better explanation for her personality/attitude shift.

[swamp]

I do think that spending all of this time/energy/$ thinking about herself has impacted her personality. She has changed. She shows up really late for lunch, doesn't apologize and then talks about how busy she is or how she "couldn't" get up. She never would have done this 5 years ago. I do attribute these changes to the her lifestyle, and maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't have any other/better explanation for her personality/attitude shift.

sounds like a drug problem.