Money, Friends and Respect

[maryjane]

May 18, 2012 12:01:21 GMT -5 swamp said:

I do think that spending all of this time/energy/$ thinking about herself has impacted her personality. She has changed. She shows up really late for lunch, doesn't apologize and then talks about how busy she is or how she "couldn't" get up. She never would have done this 5 years ago. I do attribute these changes to the her lifestyle, and maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't have any other/better explanation for her personality/attitude shift.

sounds like a drug problem.

She is very, very health conscious and hasn't even had a soda in years.

[KaraBoo]

May 18, 2012 12:05:33 GMT -5 @maryjane said:

May 18, 2012 12:01:21 GMT -5 swamp said:

sounds like a drug problem.

She is very, very health conscious and hasn't even had a soda in years.

So is my Ex and he still has a drug problem....He just justifies it as he's taking prescription drugs.

Umm.....if they're not prescribed to you or you're not taking them as directed, you have a drug problem!!!

[thyme4change]

Umm.....if they're not prescribed to you or you're not taking them as directed, you have a drug problem!!!

Even if they are prescribed to you - it might be a problem.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2012 12:00:09 GMT -5 @maryjane said:

May 18, 2012 9:20:43 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

From what I understood from the OP's post, her friend annoyed her because she considers people who make less than $150,000 poor, when in fact she earns no salary at all, and because she talks about how much she 'could' make in a business deal, when in fact she makes no business deals at all.

I would find this annoying too. Kind of like women who talk about what a fabulous mother they would be and how awful other women's mothering skills are, when in fact they have no children of their own. Or women who brag about what fabulous cooks they are, if they ever actually decided to cook anything, which they never do.

And I could paint like Monet, if I ever bought some paint and brushes.

I would find that annoying, too, and probably wouldn't be friends with someone who liked to self aggrandize that way. On the other hand, if one of my friends had all her bills paid by a sugar daddy, I woudn't un-friend her on that alone. That would be between her and the sugar daddy.

Happy, you got me!

I don't care that my friend is a kept woman. I am not jealous of what she has and I don't think about if she deserves or doesn't deserve it. I worry about her more than envy her since she has no marketable skills and has not had a job for years. All that stands between her and a crisis is the whim of her benefactor.

I do think that spending all of this time/energy/$ thinking about herself has impacted her personality. She has changed. She shows up really late for lunch, doesn't apologize and then talks about how busy she is or how she "couldn't" get up. She never would have done this 5 years ago. I do attribute these changes to the her lifestyle, and maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't have any other/better explanation for her personality/attitude shift.

Money or lack of can change people for good or bad. Sounds like she just has gotten lazy and self absorbed. If she was chronically late, i would tell her that if she isn't there by x time, i am leaving and i would leave. I am not saying you should or shouldn't continue a relationship with her. Just that she is going to do what she wants to do but you should also do what you want to do as well. Friendship has to be a 2 way street.

[maryjane]

Shooby, you bring up some great points about boundaries. Also, I think that your previous point about my friendship not being a great prize for her either has a lot of merit because I am sure she wants a friend who respects her, just like I do. Right now, neither of us respect the other.

[Deleted]

Friendship involves consideration. Showing up late and not caring about your plans and stuff like that sounds like she isn't considering anyone but herself. If that is the case, then i would back away as well. For me, when i have a friend though , they will pretty much always be my friend. I have never ditched a friend. I have fallen away but usually because they have chosen too.

[raeoflyte]

I get frustrated with my friends and family who make comments that I should do different things with my money. I don't hang out with anyone who is blatantly rude, but sometimes conversations steer in a direction that make it pretty obvious that our values are very different.

I think the differences are fine, but when people can't take a step back and look at the reasons we might differ-- and also believe that I should value things the way they do--it can be irritating.

[hurley1980]

My estranged sister is a financial trainwreck! We tried to be friends, even though we've never been that close and haven't lived together since we were 12 and 14, but after the way she leeches off our family, and takes advantage of my poor mom, I've given up.

She likes to blame it on her divorce, but they were already holding nearly $60k in debt before that, and bought a $250k house on about a $60k yearly combined salary. Now that she is divorced, she is still in the house, but hasn't made a payment in almost a year, still works part time, has borrowed nearly $20k from my mother (who will be dead before its paid off), and still insists on taking a trip to Vegas and Disneyland every year, shopping nonstop, going clubbing, eating out, etc. She's always broke and doesn't even pay the mortgage. I'm pretty sure she owes my dads side of the family a good chunk of change too, but I don't talk to them so I don't know.

She hates my mom and just guilt trips her for money. I finally put my foot down and told my mom if she loaned her anymore money, I would refuse to supplement her income when her IRA runs out (I wouldn't do that of course though).

The sad thing is my mom only has about $70k in her IRA, and lives off another $900 or so in SS and pension, so its not like she has the money to give. I am essentially paying for the money my sister has received, because once my moms money runs out, she will either be supplemented by me or will live with me, and she is now going to run out sooner. I don't usually give a rats ass about other peoples money problems, and I don't even talk to my friends about this kind of stuff, but when it affects me, and the sweet woman who brought me into this world.....then we have a HUGE problem!

And what makes it worse, is that she has two children who I love dearly, who are going to be the ones suffering later on, when she loses everything.

[dancinmama]

May 18, 2012 9:19:18 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

I have with my cousins. One of my cousins (like a sister to me) recently did the purchase a second home while still owing on the first one because they "deserved" a bigger home and were not happy that their first home lost value (They bought in 2009 and thought it was the bottom of the market). I suspect that they are going to walk away from the first house (They say they are going to "try to sell it" but I know that they don't have the $$ to bring to the table. I don't know if "try to sell" means "try to force the bank into approving a short sale" or what).

My issue isn't with that so much (lthough I do think that it is highly unethical). My bigger issue is that they are very conservative politically and are always raving about people on food stamps, TANF, disability and saying that the govt should cut them off. They feel that it is their right to default on a house (because it "isn't fair that our house lost value") while all of these "slackers shouldn't take govt money and should have personal responsibility". Ummmm... personal responsibility works several ways.. To me, it seems like the attitude of a child, throwing a temper tantrum (No fair! No fair! No fair!). It doesn't instill a lot of rescpect...

Sounds like differences with money AND politics that's causing problems for you.

[8 Bit WWBG]

DW has a childhood friend who made some bad choices with men and that cost her a lot over the years. She is a hard worker, but she is the type that just when she is almost done digging out from under a mistake, she has some emergency which sets her back. She and her now husband have gone through this cycle several times... build up savings, get downsized, get a new job, get downsized.

They are still friends, but when she comes to visit us, she makes a comment here or there to imply that we either have it easy for having so much money, or are wasteful. Comments like "we don't all shop in the expensive stores" and whatnot. It was especially funny when they claimed they could only afford to spend half what we spend on groceries, but they spend the difference on beer and cigarettes.

[NastyWoman]

May 17, 2012 18:32:54 GMT -5 @maryjane said:

May 17, 2012 18:29:02 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

That would be bad enough, but now his reasoning is that women with husbands shouldn't work, because they are taking money away from men who should be supporting their family.

Wow. That is a special kind of wacky and entitled.

Welcome to the 1950's.

[8 Bit WWBG]

DW also has another friend who, though capable of making a very nice salary on her own, is currently living a dream as a kept woman who takes on some light consulting gigs on the side to make walking around money. She can go to a 10am yoga class, or she can go visit so and so for a few days, or accompany her DH on his business trips, but she isn't entirely dependent on her DH.

DW's career is really taking off, so hopefully she is confident in her own abilities. But there are times I know she would love this sort of setup.

[Deleted]

I'd love that setup!

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Dancin, I actually agree with them politically. I just cannot stand hypocrisy. I think that if you want to rant and rave about personal responsibility, you should walk the walk. I think what urks me the most about the situation is their position for the strategic default is that "it isn't right that our house lost value". This was after they bought the house at 50% off of its peak price. They are just mad that they didn't time the market correctly and to continued to fall. They think that because of that, it isn't fair that they have to keep paying on their mortgage.

That I disagree with.

Full disclosure: I bought a home in 2006 and sold it in 2010 (I was moving out of state so I needed to sell it). It was underwater and I paid the difference in a regular sale. So, in my opinion, I walk the walk.

They have told me that I "don't understand how unfair it is to them because my house wasn't as underwater as theirs". This, despite the fact that I had to sell because I was moving out of state, they just moved around the block to a bigger home.

[maryjane]

Hurley, I am sorry. I mentioned a similar situation in my family earlier in this thread. Situations like that really causes so much angst, worry and destruction, at least for the responsible people and innocents surrounding the irresponsible party.

Good on you for putting your foot down. It can be really hard to draw firm boundaries with immediate family, but I think you saved yourself some resentment along with some $.

WeWillBackGowron - 10 o'clock yoga classes? Traveling to visit so and so? Is your friend looking for a second wife to keep? Or a third? To be fair, I have to get in line behind Jenny. Also, I had never thought of a wife as a kept woman. Not saying you are wrong (or right ), just that it is something for me to think about.

[findingdeadbeats]

I also vote for a drug problem. Likely oxy.

[Deleted]

Because a friend shows up late for lunch she now has a "drug problem"? That is quite a leap. Maybe she is just an inconsiderate bozo, not sure how you leap to drugs on that one.

[findingdeadbeats]

Maryjane: "I do think that spending all of this time/energy/$ thinking about herself has impacted her personality. She has changed. She shows up really late for lunch, doesn't apologize and then talks about how busy she is or how she "couldn't" get up. She never would have done this 5 years ago. I do attribute these changes to the her lifestyle, and maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't have any other/better explanation for her personality/attitude shift."

This = screams addiction.

1. She's changed in personality
2. She is late now and wasn't before
3. She doesn't apologize - rudeness or self-absorption
4. She "can't" get out of bed on time

[maryjane]

Yeah, I can see how from a distance it might look like a drug problem, but I don't think that is what is going on. Addicts can be very deceptive, so I am not going to claim that I couldn't be fooled by one, but I do have a lot of training and experience in this area. I am pursuing a PhD in psychology and have worked as a case manager, many of my clients had drug problems in their family, life or neighborhood.

Part of the missing piece of the puzzle is a cultural difference. She is a fairly recent immigrant with about seven years in the US. In her culture, people with money are allowed to do things like cut in line and show up late, and they aren't considered entitled when they do it. Also, living out of wedlock with a foreigner is completely unacceptable (in her culture) and makes it MUCH less likely that a man from her own culture would marry her. She has posted lots of pictures of herself at exotic locations with this guy, so that cat is forever out of the bag. I think that the changes have resulted from the fact that she views herself as a woman of high status, but she is viewed by the immigrant community and the general community in a less flattering light. She is trying to convince everyone, including herself, that she is a business woman who doesn't work because she is doing business. Living a lie is wearing her out, depressing her and making it so she "can't" get out of bed. She actually was a businesswoman in her native country, she has just lost motivation.