Ultimatums - When would you?

[taz157]

swamp - What was his job before?

[swamp]

May 17, 2012 10:54:13 GMT -5 taz157 said:

swamp - What was his job before?

Optician. $9 an hour, no benefits.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I don't usually do ultimatums with DH (with the kids, whole 'nother story, I start counting and they start doing!)

I know a lot of people don't agree with DH's health/diet issues and how he/we're handling them. And sometimes I feel like I'm enabling him. But we did talk a lot about them recently and he knows we can't afford to do this much longer. And he's figuring out ways to bring the costs down.

I DO have a "How much do you love me?" thing when I want something - it's almost always something fairly low cost and/or easily done by him. It's more of a joke than an ultimatum though. I don't do it very often. And he's said no a couple of times.

[muttleynfelix]

I guess technically I did before Dh and I started dating. I told him, he had to quit smoking or I wasn't going to date him. I backed down and started dating him the next week. Almost 8 years later and he is still smoking.

[Deleted]

I told my wife last night to make love to me or I'm getting a hooker. She handed me the phone.

[KaraBoo]

I've been reading this thread thinking I hadn't given my DH any ultimatums, when I realized I did when we first started seriously dating.

Since we've both been married before, we waited a while before introducing our kids to each other to make sure we'd be together for a while. One night a few weeks after introducing the kids to each other, DH (then BF) had to run to the store for milk and left me at his house with his 3 kids and my 1 son. That night, DH took much longer than we both thought it would take and the oldest 2 (my son, his oldest daughter) started misbehaving and not minding me.

The time outs weren't working with either of them (which it usually did with my son, I think he was just wound up from playing), so I finally gave them each a swat on the behind and got them in bed (neither cried about the swat - it wasn't hard enough, just enough to say ENOUGH!). I told BF/DH all about it as soon as he got home and he had no issue with it. When his kids went back to his ex-wife's house, OSD told her mom about me "spanking" her and she screamed at DH/BF that I was not to "beat" her child. He in turn called me to gripe me out and told me to just wait until he got home to discipline his kids if there was an issue in the future.

I thought about it over night, called him back the next day and told him that if he didn't agree with spanking, I was fine with that and we could come up with other ways, but I wasn't going to be yelled at after the fact either when he was fine with what I had done when I told him about it. I also told him that I wasn't going to be in a relationship where the kids had the control and the adult did not. I told him he needed to decide if he was truly divorced from his ex or not because I wasn't going to allow her to rule my relationships. I was willing to walk from the relationship at that point because I wasn't going to be a doormat to anyone else's kids or their ex.

DH decided that he needed to change his thinking and we worked through the issues.

[Firebird]

All of these turned out to be positive things and to enrich his life substantially. But they weren't things he would have sought out on his own. I have that too sometimes--I'll actively resist things even when I know I'll enjoy them once I get into it (like exercise classes or work projects, get your minds out of the gutter! )

Lurky, I'm sorry if you find my opinion judgmental. I wasn't necessarily saying that people should instantly know the second they're on their own what they want out of life and never ever change their minds.

But I do think that wanting something as life-changing as kids is vital if you're going to consciously have them (not talking about accidents that work out fine, I'm talking about children as part of one's life plan). I couldn't and wouldn't have married DH, as wonderful as he is and as much as he enriches my life on his own, if he didn't know he wanted children. Not even on the chance that he might someday change his mind.

And I generally think that expecting someone to change his/her mind is a recipe for disaster. I'm also a person who hates being forced or prodded into anything, even if it's "for my own good" so I would have really balked at someone making major decisions for me the way you describe. I'm not saying it's wrong - just that it wouldn't work for everyone.

[kindthatjingles]

whatever ultimatum you give be prepared to follow thru...

I cannot stand men or women who drop them lightly and they other one says well whatever and there is no respect left.

If your going to use it, use it and back it up

[Firebird]

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I was objecting to Firebird's proclamation that there are people who want children (certainly) and people who don't want children (also certainly) and nothing in between. There are a LOT of people that fall into the gray area of not seeking them out, but also not thinking it'd be the end of the world. There are also a few people who want children and change their mind before actually having any (like my best friend), and people who are absolutely militant about not wanting children and then later just as decisive about wanting them (Hi Alicia!)

And I absolutely was not trying to say that those people didn't exist, or that they had some sort of problem, or that they couldn't later become wonderful parents if forced to by circumstances. My point was that I personally could not marry anyone who felt in any way ambivalent about kids on the hope that someday he might change his mind or that maybe we'd have a happy accident and it would all be okay in the end.

That's all I was trying to say, really. That I wouldn't try to talk anyone into having kids if they said they didn't want them, and I also wouldn't marry such a person.

[Firebird]

May 17, 2012 12:37:24 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

I guess technically I did before Dh and I started dating. I told him, he had to quit smoking or I wasn't going to date him. I backed down and started dating him the next week. Almost 8 years later and he is still smoking.

I hear ya on that one!! That turned out not to be a dealbreaker for me too. My DH is a very considerate smoker, so it's not too bad to live with, but I'm still holding out hope he'll quit when Babybird arrives, as he keeps promising he will. We'll see, I say.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Firebird! We're waiting for an announcement on the Pregnancy Thread! Hurry up!
<Beth taps her foot impatiently waiting for Firebird.>

[Firebird]

Aww, I guess I can't leave you ladies hanging. I'm on my way

[muttleynfelix]

May 17, 2012 15:40:27 GMT -5 Firebird said:

May 17, 2012 12:37:24 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

I guess technically I did before Dh and I started dating. I told him, he had to quit smoking or I wasn't going to date him. I backed down and started dating him the next week. Almost 8 years later and he is still smoking.

I hear ya on that one!! That turned out not to be a dealbreaker for me too. My DH is a very considerate smoker, so it's not too bad to live with, but I'm still holding out hope he'll quit when Babybird arrives, as he keeps promising he will. We'll see, I say.

(Not to be negative, but) Don't count on it. We had a deal (and 4 years) that he would quit when we had kids. After I got pregnant, I tried everything in my power - he got a prescription for chantix, I got him self-hypnosis cds, a book that was called how to quit smoking even if you don't want to, and reminded him weekly about our "deal". It didn't happen. At the end of the day, he has to quit on his own and it has to be his idea. There is a part of me that thinks dang it, I should have stuck to my guns because he tried to quit in order to date me, and that is why I said ok, we'll date. I hate posting about our budget because of course his smoking comes up and it is like, listen, I am done. Maybe you can force people to do what they don't want to do, but I don't know how to and at the end of the day, he started smoking when he was 14 which was before I was even born. I don't have a right, especially at this point in our relationship to not accept him for who he is. That isn't how our marriage works.

Your hubby has been smoking for not nearly as long as mine had, so I hope he can quit. But, dang is it hard if they don't want to do.

[Firebird]

(Not to be negative, but) Don't count on it.

I'm not. I don't care if he continues smoking. As I said, he's an easy smoker to live with and you'd never even know he smokes. But it will be extremely inconvenient for him (we've agreed, he won't even hold her in a shirt he's been smoking in) so that may cause him to quit by default.

[muttleynfelix]

May 17, 2012 15:50:13 GMT -5 Firebird said:

(Not to be negative, but) Don't count on it.

I'm not. I don't care if he continues smoking. As I said, he's an easy smoker to live with and you'd never even know he smokes. But it will be extremely inconvenient for him (we've agreed, he won't even hold her in a shirt he's been smoking in) so that may cause him to quit by default.

That is what DH was going to do and then he figured out if he wore his coat all zipped up and then took it off when he got in, it would do the same thing. He did always wash his hands though. DS has been super healthy, so having a smoker around hasn't hurt him and now that he is older and outside with DH a lot, DH will smoke outside with him nearby. I can't say I like it. I'm just done fighting it.

[quotequeen]

I did tell DH that I wouldn't date a smoker. It wasn't exactly an ultimatum because he had already quit shortly before we started dating. I would have meant it though. I can't even stand to sit next to somebody who has been smoking.

[hoops902]

I have a standing ultimatum with my wife: If you get fat I'm going to start sleeping with skinny girls.

I wouldn't take any ultimatum she gave me seriously, whether it's true or not I would always assume I can talk my way out of whatever I need to.

[Firebird]

That is what DH was going to do and then he figured out if he wore his coat all zipped up and then took it off when he got in, it would do the same thing. He did always wash his hands though.

I guess that would be okay. He definitely won't ever be smoking in the car or around the baby.

It would be nice if he'd just quit but as you said, I'm not going to be his momma about it. Particularly now that I'm trying to be someone else's momma

[Firebird]

I wouldn't take any ultimatum she gave me seriously, whether it's true or not I would always assume I can talk my way out of whatever I need to.

Maybe she thinks she can talk you out of sleeping with skinny girls if she gets fat?

[lurkyloo]

May 17, 2012 15:34:08 GMT -5 Firebird said:

And I generally think that expecting someone to change his/her mind is a recipe for disaster. I'm also a person who hates being forced or prodded into anything, even if it's "for my own good" so I would have really balked at someone making major decisions for me the way you describe. I'm not saying it's wrong - just that it wouldn't work for everyone.

Probably best that we're not married to each other then Mostly I thought Miss T handled her situation in an extremely appropriate manner, and was taken aback by your implied criticism.

To clarify again: none of my examples were my unilateral decisions. I provided the suggestions and in some cases did the work, but wouldn't have proceeded on most of them if DH hadn't been on board. Although DH refusing to get a dog might have been a dealbreaker, way back when...

Oh, and I wouldn't have laid down an ultimatum on smoking, because dating a smoker would have been a nonstarter in the first place. Thankfully DH isn't the type to start up on something like that.

[muttleynfelix]

May 17, 2012 17:48:49 GMT -5 Firebird said:

That is what DH was going to do and then he figured out if he wore his coat all zipped up and then took it off when he got in, it would do the same thing. He did always wash his hands though.

I guess that would be okay. He definitely won't ever be smoking in the car or around the baby.

It would be nice if he'd just quit but as you said, I'm not going to be his momma about it. Particularly now that I'm trying to be someone else's momma

That has been my philosophy.

[Deleted]

I just don't see the point in ultimatums. I can choose to live my life how i choose. My life is about managing my own behavior, not someone else's. Yes, if there was abuse, infidelity, etc i would walk out the door but no "ultimatum" needs to be issued from On High. The only time i could think where it would be useful would be in something like alcoholism or drug addiction where you are telling your spouse that you need to get clean or else i am walking .

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't see ultimatums as trying to force someone else to change. DH was perfectly free if he wanted to continue to live off his parents and work for slightly above the state minimum wage.

I just wasn't going to do it with him.

At that point we were moving towards potentially becoming a serious relationship and I wanted him to know that I was going to be taking road X and I can't continue to follow you down Road Y.

I was getting ready to leave for Simpson. So if things weren't going to work out I wanted to end it cleanly that summer rather than drag it with me to school.

He decided to clean up his act. He had never done that for any other girl he had dated before. He was engaged to the girl he was with before me and he STILL did not get his shit together.

She broke it off and moved out.

So apparently I offered something that was worth growing up for. ;D

[Firebird]

Probably best that we're not married to each other then Mostly I thought Miss T handled her situation in an extremely appropriate manner, and was taken aback by your implied criticism.

Geez, I must be coming off badly in this thread. I wasn't criticizing her at all - just commenting that for ME, her situation would have been gut-wrenching. I think she handled it well too.

ETA: Maybe it would have been better if I'd said "for ME, if someone says they don't want kids, that's it and there's no talking them into it" if only because I would never try.

If DH had said he never wanted kids when we were dating, I might have dug into that statement a bit more (you never want kids, period? or you don't want kids right now? or you don't want kids with me? etc.) but once it was established that he did not want children and couldn't see himself wanting children at any point, that would have been it for me.

That's only for me though, because I knew when we started dating that I wanted kids (and fairly soon). If others would have gone ahead anyway, more power to them - seriously. I'm not trying to judge anyone else's decisions when I say that they wouldn't have worked for me.

Hopefully that's clearer now.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2012 10:26:04 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I don't see ultimatums as trying to force someone else to change.

neither do I. DH was perfectly entitled to never get married, but that doesn't mean I had to be the one he wouldn't commit to.