Ultimatums - When would you?

[Miss Tequila]

My husband did not want children. I'm not sure if you can call it an ultimatum but I would not marry him unless he agreed to have children. I always wanted children and I wasn't about to live life without them. He knew how I felt and I knew how he felt...I wasn't giving in and was willing to call off our wedding if it came to that. He finally agreed, we got married and now have two, beautiful daughters. He admits he can't imagine life without them.

I think that is the only "real" ultimatum i've ever issued...I mean, I say shit like "if you do that I swear to God I will kick your ass"..but I don't really mean it...first off, I might break a nail or something...

[Miss Tequila]

May 16, 2012 16:59:26 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

And ultimatums don't really get to the root causes of problems in a relationship. It's trying to force a problem that usually has many shades of gray into a black and white dicussion. If I was having an issue with a SO, I'd think trying to discuss it and get to the root cause of the issue is better than a "my way or the highway" discussion.

But what if it really is a dealbreaker? I wanted kids and was not willing to go through life without them...what if my husband didn't give in and agree to have children? I wasn't stomping my foot and being childish...I was saying, "this is what I want out of life...if you want something different then we are not meant to be together".....

[Miss Tequila]

May 16, 2012 16:28:10 GMT -5 dividend said:

<Sigh>
My gut says that when that when that happens, he won't choose me.

Oh, I'm so sorry...honestly, if it were me I would be having that discussion NOW rather than later....you don't deserve to be with someone who you think would choose his mom over you...if that's the case, you need to be able to move on with your life.

Good luck

[Firebird]

But what if it really is a dealbreaker? I wanted kids and was not willing to go through life without them...what if my husband didn't give in and agree to have children? I wasn't stomping my foot and being childish...I was saying, "this is what I want out of life...if you want something different then we are not meant to be together".....



Kids absolutely would have been an ultimatum issue for me. I think that was the only "pre-ultimatum" (if you want to call it that) that I threw down and luckily DH felt exactly the same way. The situation Miss T describes would have gutted me. No amount of discussion can make you want children - you either do or you don't.

The rest of my ultimatums have to do with stuff that you hope your partner wouldn't ever do - substance abuse and people abuse, mainly.

[Cookies Galore]

May 16, 2012 16:59:26 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

And ultimatums don't really get to the root causes of problems in a relationship. It's trying to force a problem that usually has many shades of gray into a black and white dicussion. If I was having an issue with a SO, I'd think trying to discuss it and get to the root cause of the issue is better than a "my way or the highway" discussion.

Key words there, buddy. There's no thinking in relationships.

[whoisjohngalt]

I guess I did, in a way, without actually saying it - I made it oh so perfectly clear to my DH -then BF - either days of your financial mess are over or we would be. Financial security is too important for me, so so so very important

Lena

ETA: and now that I think about it - I guess my DH -then BF did give me one too, in a way. He wasn't going to stay in MD.

Oh, and OF COURSE, how could I forget - my IL's gave me one on the day of our engagement - either call us Mom and Dad or you are not welcome into the family

[michelyn8]

May 16, 2012 19:32:47 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

My husband did not want children. I'm not sure if you can call it an ultimatum but I would not marry him unless he agreed to have children. I always wanted children and I wasn't about to live life without them. He knew how I felt and I knew how he felt...I wasn't giving in and was willing to call off our wedding if it came to that. He finally agreed, we got married and now have two, beautiful daughters. He admits he can't imagine life without them.

I think that is the only "real" ultimatum i've ever issued...I mean, I say shit like "if you do that I swear to God I will kick your ass"..but I don't really mean it...first off, I might break a nail or something...

Miss T, your ultimatum sounds a lot like the "understanding" I have with my BF. He doesn't ever want to get married again and I'm not willing to live with a man who isn't willing to marry me. I know how he feels and he knows how I feel and we never discuss marriage or co-habitating. I guess that is an ultimatum of sorts but I've never phrased it to him that way. Its just a choice I made for myself when my kids were little and now that its pretty much just me, I see it as a way of protecting my finances. Back then I wanted to avoid the potential of revolving door boyfriends so it was a way to weed out those who weren't looking for long term. Now, co-habiting means me putting out money in someone else's home without any rights to that home or "reimbursement" from his estate (not the best wording but I don't know how else to put it).

[michelyn8]

May 16, 2012 19:37:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 16, 2012 16:28:10 GMT -5 dividend said:

<Sigh>
My gut says that when that when that happens, he won't choose me.

Oh, I'm so sorry...honestly, if it were me I would be having that discussion NOW rather than later....you don't deserve to be with someone who you think would choose his mom over you...if that's the case, you need to be able to move on with your life.

Good luck

[taz157]

May 16, 2012 19:37:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 16, 2012 16:28:10 GMT -5 dividend said:

<Sigh>
My gut says that when that when that happens, he won't choose me.

Oh, I'm so sorry...honestly, if it were me I would be having that discussion NOW rather than later....you don't deserve to be with someone who you think would choose his mom over you...if that's the case, you need to be able to move on with your life.

Good luck

[lurkyloo]

May 16, 2012 19:40:34 GMT -5 Firebird said:

But what if it really is a dealbreaker? I wanted kids and was not willing to go through life without them...what if my husband didn't give in and agree to have children? I wasn't stomping my foot and being childish...I was saying, "this is what I want out of life...if you want something different then we are not meant to be together".....



Kids absolutely would have been an ultimatum issue for me. I think that was the only "pre-ultimatum" (if you want to call it that) that I threw down and luckily DH felt exactly the same way. The situation Miss T describes would have gutted me. No amount of discussion can make you want children - you either do or you don't.

I know this is a popular sentiment on these boards, but I find this commentary more than a little judgemental. Some people don't have the vision to see a priori what going down a particular path will be like. Left to himself, DH would be living in a crappy little apartment and spending essentially his entire life at work (and forgetting to eat half the time). He wouldn't have our beloved dog or have bought the house we adore. He wouldn't have been to Europe last year, he would have listened to the guy who wanted to total out his car when the right decision was my suggestion to take it elsewhere and spend $1800 to make it driveable again. Hell, we probably wouldn't be married if I hadn't taken the initiative on that. All of these turned out to be positive things and to enrich his life substantially. But they weren't things he would have sought out on his own. I have that too sometimes--I'll actively resist things even when I know I'll enjoy them once I get into it (like exercise classes or work projects, get your minds out of the gutter! )

Having a child is similar in that it's hard or impossible to imagine a priori precisely what life will be like. I'm sure some people desperately want children only to have them and find out that they hate being a parent. Others, like Miss T's husband, are initially reluctant only to find it incredibly rewarding. That's biology for you...fighting logic since the dawn of time, and winning more often than not.

[8 Bit WWBG]

I wonder whether some people, upon receiving an ultimatum, feel forced to choose "the one that isn't making me choose". My DW can be extremely stubborn, and I could totally see her calling me on an ultimatum just to not feel like she got leveraged into something.

[giramomma]

Well, my DH is a recovering addict. So, I have to have boundaries. But, I really don't consider that an ultimatum "Do this or else.."

My DH is free to choose sobriety or acting out/getting high every day. I'm free to decide whether or not I want to live with his choices. I won't even deal with a relapse. My DH is fully aware of my boundary, and knows I will act upon my boundary if I ever need to. I don't have my boundary to "scare" my husband into sobriety. I have it to keep me mentally/emotionally/physically safe.

Otherwise, I was one of those boring people that had a very unfun list of things I wanted in a life partner. I wanted to marry someone that basically had the same general values I did (same parenting outlook, agreement in family size, agreement in how to handle money, education, and similar religious views.)

We live a pretty dull life, in that we really don't have any issues to discuss or compromise on. But, that's what I wanted. I also don't believe that love conquers all, or even that love is enough to get you through the bad times of a marriage.

[cronewitch]

I don't do false ultimatums but do real ones. My ex liked to pick up and move and we did the first 5 years alot. Then I said no to moving and he tricked me telling me we were only moving a few miles but didn't quit driving until we were in Alaska. So then he was talking to his grandparents in Michigan and wanted to go, I said if we go we have to stay until I finish college so we went and stayed 4.5 years. Then he wanted to move again so I said pick carefully this is the last move and he picked Seattle, my home town. Next time he wanted to move to California and I told him I wasn't going, if you want to go you go alone. He didn't go but I wasn't about to move again I was done. I have been back in Seattle since 1976 and don't see any reason to ever move more than 100 miles or so.

After divorce I found myself dating two men at the same time, each asked me not to date others but I wasn't ready to choose. I decided to wait to see which one was most controlling and him. It worked I dumped one, dated the other then broke up with him and dated the first again then dumped him.

Mostly I don't do ultimatums since most of the time I don't see them changing so take it or leave it. My ex was drinking and violent and I didn't even ask him to quit drinking, I just moved out. He had been a dry drunk for 17 years so he knew it wasn't right to drink.

[Deleted]

Not very often. DH likes to stall a lot on things - getting multiple quotes for the leaking roof over the course of a year for example. Which is still leaking. It's the curse of the talented DIY'er. They never want to hire anything out. I told DH recently that I wasn't going to nag him to make a decision anymore. Just give him x amount of time for a certain project and then I'll pick up the phone and hire whoever I please. It's been working out surprisingly well.

Several months ago I told him he had to either get fixed or have more kids because I was tired of paying $70 every three weeks because he's scared of having someone mess around with his manbits and it was giving me false hope that he might change his mind. He got fixed.

[Deleted]

Yes. Ultimatums are only for severe issues when if that doesn't change, you are walking out the door. Other than that, i think i someone is issuing ultimatums as if they are in charge of the universe and their way is the only right way, then they probably have some issues themselves of over control. So, in that case i would issue an ultimatum to the person issuing me an ultimatum that if they keep giving me ultimatums, i am out!

[Miss Tequila]

"I know this is a popular sentiment on these boards, but I find this commentary more than a little judgemental. Some people don't have the vision to see a priori what going down a particular path will be like. Left to himself, DH would be living in a crappy little apartment and spending essentially his entire life at work (and forgetting to eat half the time). He wouldn't have our beloved dog or have bought the house we adore. He wouldn't have been to Europe last year, he would have listened to the guy who wanted to total out his car when the right decision was my suggestion to take it elsewhere and spend $1800 to make it driveable again. Hell, we probably wouldn't be married if I hadn't taken the initiative on that. All of these turned out to be positive things and to enrich his life substantially. But they weren't things he would have sought out on his own. I have that too sometimes--I'll actively resist things even when I know I'll enjoy them once I get into it (like exercise classes or work projects, get your minds out of the gutter! )

Having a child is similar in that it's hard or impossible to imagine a priori precisely what life will be like. I'm sure some people desperately want children only to have them and find out that they hate being a parent. Others, like Miss T's husband, are initially reluctant only to find it incredibly rewarding. That's biology for you...fighting logic since the dawn of time, and winning more often than not. "

Lurkyloo, I'm confused as to how this is anyway judgmental. There are a few people on this board who absolutely do not want children. The females have been upfront and stated if they ever accidentally got pregnant they would have an abortion because they do not want children. How is it even remotely judgmental to tell my then boyfriend that I do want kids and if our values aren't the same, then we aren't meant to be together? Sure, I could have married him and hoped he changed his mind, but what if he didn't? Either I would end up hating him or we would get divorced because being childless was not an option for me.

[skubikky]

May 16, 2012 19:32:47 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

My husband did not want children. I'm not sure if you can call it an ultimatum but I would not marry him unless he agreed to have children. I always wanted children and I wasn't about to live life without them. He knew how I felt and I knew how he felt...I wasn't giving in and was willing to call off our wedding if it came to that. He finally agreed, we got married and now have two, beautiful daughters. He admits he can't imagine life without them.

I think that is the only "real" ultimatum i've ever issued...I mean, I say shit like "if you do that I swear to God I will kick your ass"..but I don't really mean it...first off, I might break a nail or something...

MissT you crack me up.

But, on the more serious note, I would love for those women(like dividend) to read what you said above regarding the discussion of a deal breaker before marriage and having the courage and fortitude to make clear that you won't go further without an agreement about something that is so important to you.

So many women, both young and older, meet a guy, fall in love and ignore the warning signs or the obvious differences on major life issues. I think that many are very desperate to marry or just don't want to be alone and are willing to try to change it after wards. JMHO.

[michelyn8]

May 16, 2012 20:48:14 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

May 16, 2012 19:40:34 GMT -5 Firebird said:

But what if it really is a dealbreaker? I wanted kids and was not willing to go through life without them...what if my husband didn't give in and agree to have children? I wasn't stomping my foot and being childish...I was saying, "this is what I want out of life...if you want something different then we are not meant to be together".....



Kids absolutely would have been an ultimatum issue for me. I think that was the only "pre-ultimatum" (if you want to call it that) that I threw down and luckily DH felt exactly the same way. The situation Miss T describes would have gutted me. No amount of discussion can make you want children - you either do or you don't.

I know this is a popular sentiment on these boards, but I find this commentary more than a little judgemental. Some people don't have the vision to see a priori what going down a particular path will be like. Left to himself, DH would be living in a crappy little apartment and spending essentially his entire life at work (and forgetting to eat half the time). He wouldn't have our beloved dog or have bought the house we adore. He wouldn't have been to Europe last year, he would have listened to the guy who wanted to total out his car when the right decision was my suggestion to take it elsewhere and spend $1800 to make it driveable again. Hell, we probably wouldn't be married if I hadn't taken the initiative on that. All of these turned out to be positive things and to enrich his life substantially. But they weren't things he would have sought out on his own. I have that too sometimes--I'll actively resist things even when I know I'll enjoy them once I get into it (like exercise classes or work projects, get your minds out of the gutter! )

Having a child is similar in that it's hard or impossible to imagine a priori precisely what life will be like. I'm sure some people desperately want children only to have them and find out that they hate being a parent. Others, like Miss T's husband, are initially reluctant only to find it incredibly rewarding. That's biology for you...fighting logic since the dawn of time, and winning more often than not.

I have to disagree with you. I know two people (women) who simply do not like young children and have always known they did not want to have children. They have nieces and nephews they enjoy spending time with but that is different because those children leave and are not their responsibility for any longer than they are visiting.

I have more respect for people who know they don't want children and make sure they don't have them than those that have them or allow themselves to be convinced to have them when they don't really want to be a parent in the first place.

Note: I was 17 when I had DS and he definately was not planned but I had always seen myself as a parent at some point so that worked out for me. But if I met someone who stated they didn't want kids or wasn't sure, I put them on the mental list of "no possible future together". Just like in my situation with BF. At some point I may decide its ok to just live together or he may decide he does want to get married again. But right now, its not a dealbreaker for either of us. Our relationship is still maturing and potential cohabitation and/or marriage isn't even on the radar when we have an issue to work through.

[quotequeen]

May 16, 2012 22:00:12 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

I wonder whether some people, upon receiving an ultimatum, feel forced to choose "the one that isn't making me choose".

I guess I have given this sort of anti-ultimatum. I have said, as a warning, "if you force me to make a choice I will not choose you."

[Deleted]

well, after 5 years of being exclusive I asked (now) DH where our relationship was going and that I wasn't going to wait around much longer for us to make it official. I knew he wanted kids too, and I wasn't about to be a "baby mama". I know people do it, and that's great for them, but if I'm having a baby and I'm with the father, I'm gonna need him to put a ring on it.

[happyhoix]

"So many women, both young and older, meet a guy, fall in love and ignore the warning signs or the obvious differences on major life issues. I think that many are very desperate to marry or just don't want to be alone and are willing to try to change it after wards. JMHO. "

These types of women make me crazy. The ones that say "I thought if he loved me he would change." "I thought if we got married he would settle down." "I thought if we had a baby he would become responsble."

You don't buy a goat and then complain it's not a pony.

Then if you DO marry a goat, don't expect me to sit patiently and listen to you cry about how this guy you married, the one that smoked pot every day of his life for the last 10 years, won't quit smoking pot because he married you. I have no tolerance for that kind of whining.

[zibazinski]

[resolution]

I don't remember ever giving any ultimatums. I am not very tolerant in my personal life so if something is unacceptable I just leave rather than threatening to leave.

I was on the receiving end of one ultimatum and I immediately broke up with him. We are still friends but the dating relationship ended in that conversation.

[raeoflyte]

May 17, 2012 6:20:34 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Lurkyloo, I'm confused as to how this is anyway judgmental. There are a few people on this board who absolutely do not want children. The females have been upfront and stated if they ever accidentally got pregnant they would have an abortion because they do not want children. How is it even remotely judgmental to tell my then boyfriend that I do want kids and if our values aren't the same, then we aren't meant to be together? Sure, I could have married him and hoped he changed his mind, but what if he didn't? Either I would end up hating him or we would get divorced because being childless was not an option for me.

I'm probably speaking out of turn, but I think the point is that some people who really want children are still crappy parents, and other people who do not want, or are ambivalent about kids end up being wonderful devoted parents. My dad didn't want kids, but would if my mom wanted too. So they had me, and apparently I melted his little heart the moment he saw me and he has been an awesome father to myself and my sister (his step-daughter).

That isn't to say that I think people should stay with someone who doesn't want the same things they do--especially when we're talking about kids.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My DH is fully aware of my boundary, and knows I will act upon my boundary if I ever need to. I don't have my boundary to "scare" my husband into sobriety. I have it to keep me mentally/emotionally/physically safe.

[findingdeadbeats]

My late DH had some sort of problem with calling in his RX medications with enough time for the pharmacy to fill them.... At one point he was on about 20 different medications and they were all coming due for refill at different times.

After many stressful times where RX refills turned into complete clusters, fighting/arguing, and my having to deal with it, I told DH I was finished with his medical mess. He was now 100% responsible for calling in his RXs, making his own doctors appts., etc... or I would leave. I was not his mommy and requiring him to deal with the parts of his own care that he was more than capable of was driving me nuts - literally.

Interestingly, the above worked. And, every time DH would say "just this once can you call or go to XY or Z for me" the answer was always NO, unless it was somewhere I was already going to for something else. Otherwise, it was on him. He forgot to call something in, he could deal with it or go without until it came in.

[findingdeadbeats]

May 16, 2012 19:37:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 16, 2012 16:28:10 GMT -5 dividend said:

<Sigh>
My gut says that when that when that happens, he won't choose me.

Oh, I'm so sorry...honestly, if it were me I would be having that discussion NOW rather than later....you don't deserve to be with someone who you think would choose his mom over you...if that's the case, you need to be able to move on with your life.

Good luck

A-freaking-men.

Mine was a total momma's boy and it wasn't a fun part of our relationship. I can see marrying someone who loves their mother deeply, but when they have to have constant contact with them and make major life decisions based upon their distance from their mommy's house, I think there are issues...

[MN-Investor]

When DH and I were dating, not nearly to the point of being engaged, he was a senior in college and the U.S. Navy came wooing. They flew him out to Virginia and gave him a tour of a submarine. Later, during a discussion, I told DH that that sounded nice, and he could do what he wanted, but that I had seen too many long distance relationships fail and our relationship would end if he joined the Navy. I didn't mean it as an ultimatum. We just weren't that serious at that point, and I didn't expect my comment to have any influence on him. Later on he did tell me that it did make a difference.

[lurkyloo]

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I was objecting to Firebird's proclamation that there are people who want children (certainly) and people who don't want children (also certainly) and nothing in between. There are a LOT of people that fall into the gray area of not seeking them out, but also not thinking it'd be the end of the world. There are also a few people who want children and change their mind before actually having any (like my best friend), and people who are absolutely militant about not wanting children and then later just as decisive about wanting them (Hi Alicia!)

I'm not saying anyone should trick anyone else. I'm saying that an adult ought to be able to have a conversation with another adult and reach a compromise. Like deciding "my vague disinclination to have children is less strong than my desire to be married to you, so I'll give it a shot." Especially if this conversation happens before marriage, as in Miss T's case.

[swamp]

Apparently, I gave an ultimatum to DH when we started dating. I told him that I didn't consider us long term relationship material because his job sucked.

He went back to school and is now a pharmacist.

I have no recollection of the conversation.