Poppet
Established Member
Joined: Dec 28, 2010 15:45:12 GMT -5
Posts: 364
|
Post by Poppet on Jan 25, 2011 16:58:29 GMT -5
I think the most important people are plumbers, water treatment plant workers, and farmers, because without them, we'd be up to our eyeballs in shit without clean water or food
Aww, Swamp. Thanks for the kinds words.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,714
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jan 25, 2011 17:07:21 GMT -5
""Maybe you aren't stupid and lazy, but I bet dollars to donuts you're a product of a society that puts up with it." Explain what you mean by that." Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo Sue take it back. He'll explain. WCP comes from the Christian mindset that marriage is forever in this life and if your husband drives you insane, spends all your money, etc. you just need to work it out or live a crappy life until you die because you need to live the consequences of your choice. BTW, the Waltons started out with decent ideas but I'm not a fan of the cheaper products and huge reliance on goods from China and other countries.
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on Jan 25, 2011 17:11:01 GMT -5
The old school Admins are hard working (putting in a lot of hours) - they are too "busy" to learn how to accomplish more in less time OR maybe they are too lazy to do it. Not sure. Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finance&action=display&thread=2266&page=1#ixzz1C5Svctf9I consider myself an "old school" admin but I know exactly what you're talking about. I have worked my way into a higher level position but have see those that take twice the time needed on a task. I replaced an "old school" person and my new boss has commented that he likes that I go ahead and do things and get them out of the way versus the way she would piddle around, wait until right before a deadline and then rush. I've worked in predominantly male industries the last 15+ years and used to have a Maxine mug that said "Of course I don't look as busy as the men, I did it right the first time." Made for a good laugh but that is the way I work - do it right the first time and move on. I hate re-work. I also believe that if I can't accomplish my job in 40 hours a week then one of two things is going on - 1) either I'm overloaded or 2) I'm not doing something I should/could be doing to do a better job. Sure, at time OT is needed but for me its the exception, not the norm.
|
|
|
Post by sue on Jan 25, 2011 17:23:12 GMT -5
"Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo Sue take it back. He'll explain." Uhm... sorry? I may have opened a can of worms there huh... "WCP comes from the Christian mindset that marriage is forever in this life and if your husband drives you insane, spends all your money, etc. you just need to work it out or live a crappy life until you die because you need to live the consequences of your choice." Oh goody...
|
|
Frugal Nurse
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 18:19:55 GMT -5
Posts: 988
|
Post by Frugal Nurse on Jan 25, 2011 17:33:19 GMT -5
Paul, I wasn't sure what this thread was going to be about, but yeah, I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I was posting something the other day and I laid out a similar sequence. DH and I went to college, got married, had our family, started a business etc. etc. but some people try to claim that it was "luck". That sequence is very important. DH also works the hours when his customers are available to stop in his office. That means that his most productive hours are not 9-5 M-F. Those hours from 4-6 or 4-7 weekdays are mighty important. He also works almost every Saturday. I also can relate to the person saying they consider themselves "lazy" so they figure out the easy way to do things. When I started my current job I could just hear my former boss saying he was lazy so he had used technology to more efficiently do his job. Faced with a task I did not want to do manually, I said to myself "I have to figure out the lazy way to do this" and I did. In my mind lazy doesn't mean sitting in front of the TV and relaxing, it means using technology to gain efficiency. Know anyone who doesn't use a computer? I do. I can't imagine. But you were lucky. You were lucky that you were able to go to college (don't you know that not everyone can go to school? Financial aid? no, they have bad grades. Loans? no, they don't want to be in more debt- the cc's are eating them alive!) Got married before having kids? Well, you're just a smug, holier-than-thou know it all. Don't you know that keeping your legs closed is impossible? Birth control? Nope, some people are allergic/can't afford it/ don't believe in it. Besides, birth control fails all the time! And since it fails, why even bother with it in the first place? geez, I thought you went to college!
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 25, 2011 20:49:43 GMT -5
I don't buy the "life happens" business. Life doesn't just happen. There are red flags. Red flags are ignored. Then marriage is CHOSEN, and then after marriage the same, or brand new, red flags happen. Red flags are ignored. Then children are CHOSEN. Then the storm-- you know, the one the red flags were warning of-- hits and then rather than accept responsibility (God forbid we're "unhappy"-- and don't tell me about compromises, I've made plenty. I spent 15 years of my life I can never get back living in a sh**hole that I hated- HATED ever single day for the last decade and a half- for one (1) reason: marriage vows) and fight for the decision we made to make the most of it, we CHOOSE divorce and choose single parenthood for our kids.
I know, I know-- you had NO idea. Not ONE single clue. Just one day AFTER you had the kids he "changed" and wasn't the same person. All of the sudden. No hints, no idea it was coming. Entirely his doing. I get it. Don't worry- I accept that "life happens". We can't predict anything. No way. No how. We just wake up one day totally SHOCKED! that "life happened" to us.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 25, 2011 20:50:16 GMT -5
And of course- when "life happens", it is of course a perfectly justifiable excuse to send the bill to someone else.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 25, 2011 20:50:40 GMT -5
After all, it's all just "lucky" and "unlucky" so why shouldn't the "lucky" help out?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 25, 2011 20:51:50 GMT -5
Yeah- I come from the "Christian mindset", but mostly I come from the, "Take your bullsh** story someplace else. I ain't buying it." mindset.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,714
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jan 25, 2011 21:01:29 GMT -5
Yeah- I come from the "Christian mindset", but mostly I come from the, "Take your bullsh** story someplace else. I ain't buying it." mindset. And cue the compassion and forgiveness JC was known for.
|
|
|
Post by cavia on Jan 25, 2011 21:11:53 GMT -5
Yeah- I come from the "Christian mindset", but mostly I come from the, "Take your bullsh** story someplace else. I ain't buying it." mindset. And cue the compassion and forgiveness JC was known for. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,714
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jan 25, 2011 21:18:37 GMT -5
"don't buy the "life happens" business. Life doesn't just happen. There are red flags. Red flags are ignored." Ah the beloved YM crystal ball theory. All things or all important things can be known in advance because there are signs I tell you signs that obviously you have ignored at your own peril! Good thing WCP knew he was going to endure the living hell of residing in Illinois for fifteen years and was prepared. Had an alcoholic parent, you are a widower at a young age with kids and debt, etc. Please! This man has lived in ILLINOIS by God, now that's suffering. Disclaimer: Melodrama intended but not to be taken seriously.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jan 25, 2011 22:08:58 GMT -5
I'm diligent so I can be lazy. So far, so good and no complaints.
|
|
|
Post by sue on Jan 25, 2011 22:53:13 GMT -5
"I don't buy the "life happens" business. Life doesn't just happen." Consider yourself blessed. "And of course- when "life happens", it is of course a perfectly justifiable excuse to send the bill to someone else." Cool. Pm me your address so I can forward them to you. "After all, it's all just "lucky" and "unlucky" so why shouldn't the "lucky" help out?" If you don't think lack has any part of it, you are as naive as you are ignorant. Unless you want to claim you control illness, death, etc and can just diligently work that away? "Yeah- I come from the "Christian mindset", but mostly I come from the, "Take your bullsh** story someplace else. I ain't buying it." mindset." Funny... I don't recall telling my story.
|
|
dcmetrocrab
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 19:50:51 GMT -5
Posts: 527
|
Post by dcmetrocrab on Jan 25, 2011 23:00:41 GMT -5
This thread reminds me of the good ole YM days.
|
|
|
Post by sue on Jan 25, 2011 23:10:54 GMT -5
"Good thing WCP knew he was going to endure the living hell of residing in Illinois for fifteen years and was prepared. Had an alcoholic parent, you are a widower at a young age with kids and debt, etc."
I gather Paul is WCP and that's his story? If so, my condolences on the loss of your wife, Paul.
|
|
|
Post by stantonjane on Jan 25, 2011 23:16:52 GMT -5
Wow, guys. What a bunch of assumptous and arrogant statements. Someone has serious anger issues.
To begin with, for those who consider manual laborers lazy. Yes, it is most often a lifestyle choice, one with limited opportunity for advancement. Bear in mind, people are born with different levels of academic intelligent capabilities. We are not all cut out to be A students, no matter how hard some people work in class, some of us will never rise above a C or B average. I'm not talking 'stupid' or special needs, but because someone is never going to get a passing grade in algebra does not mean they haven't tried. So it is a struggle to finish high school, and impractical to pursue college.
Many people choose not to go to college because it's not really an option. They are expected out of high school to support themselves and possibly contribute to the family's income. Or they just never got the direction as to what is out there. People born into a lower or working class family often fall into the same pattern because that's all they known.
Perhaps they enjoy being auto mechanics, or plumbers, or printers, or other people who contribute to society just as much as people in white-collar positions do. Sure, it would be nice to make a lot more money than what they were paying at the sawmill when Joe Bluecollar left highschool to go to work there, but it paid enough for him to marry his sweetheart and start his family, so I'm sure he felt pretty good about it.
Perhaps the hard work is a temporary measure, even Abe Lincoln took pride in his log splitting abilities, while he advanced himself in other areas.
From your post, PalmBeachPaul, you are sounding awfully elitist. Besides throwing out that 'diligence' perhaps you should be considering some other words, like 'tolerance' and 'compassion.'
|
|
|
Post by donkeyontheedge on Jan 25, 2011 23:17:23 GMT -5
Savoir Faire - please explain your comment - "This is the result of the feminization of society."
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 26, 2011 2:14:08 GMT -5
"I don't buy the "life happens" business. Life doesn't just happen." Consider yourself blessed. "And of course- when "life happens", it is of course a perfectly justifiable excuse to send the bill to someone else." Cool. Pm me your address so I can forward them to you. "After all, it's all just "lucky" and "unlucky" so why shouldn't the "lucky" help out?" If you don't think lack has any part of it, you are as naive as you are ignorant. Unless you want to claim you control illness, death, etc and can just diligently work that away? "Yeah- I come from the "Christian mindset", but mostly I come from the, "Take your bullsh** story someplace else. I ain't buying it." mindset." Funny... I don't recall telling my story. The government has my address. I'm one of the 1% whose share helps pay a whopping 39% of the Federal Income taxes collected. Yes luck plays a role. The luckiest thing that happened to me is that I was born in The United States. And no, I don't control illness, or who my parents were- and thankfully they weren't alcoholics, and my wife didn't die leaving me two kids to raise. However, knowing these things do actually happen we have wills, and an estate plan. We have insurance. We have assets including savings to fall back on. To sum it up, I like what is often attributed to John Wayne: Life's tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid. I think most of the whining out there is by politicians and activists on behalf of people who aren't actually whining and complaining. I think the (conscious) dependent class is relatively small-- if you don't count the 47% of people who either pay no income taxes, or actually take money directly or indirectly (another topic altogether, but we do need to raise taxes to solve our deficit and debt issues-- we're going to have to start taxing everyone, and that means the so-called "working poor" and especially the middle class). That being said, I've heard enough in the last three days to drive a wooden man crazy and I'm just done with it. We ALL knew this marriage in question was a train wreck waiting to happen, but did anyone do anything? No. Did we try to persuade them not to marry? Well, I did- I tried to get her to reconsider. It's usually not sad when someone tells you they're pregnant, but when I heard her say it several years ago now-- my heart sank. I knew this moment would come and I had hoped it would come BEFORE they had kids. The point is that yes, "life happens". My best friend's dad got cancer and died when he was 15. His mom married the proverbial alcoholic jerk and moved them to some podunk town out east where he had no friends and she had no support. HE had no control over it- life happened to HIM. SHE had every warning sign in the book. So, yeah- life happens; but we accept too much in the way of excuses-- from other people, and from ourselves. And the "victim" class has grown so large that the real victims-- those of us who actually aren't lazy, who are diligent in the truest sense of the word, are increasingly the victims. We're put upon to bail the out everyone else. I just reached a tipping point the other day and so I posted this rant. I've said it before in the context of what it really takes to be successful-- and it ain't just "hard work". Lots of people work hard. It's not enough. It's what you work hard at that counts.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 26, 2011 2:16:52 GMT -5
Wow, guys. What a bunch of assumptous and arrogant statements. Someone has serious anger issues. To begin with, for those who consider manual laborers lazy. Yes, it is most often a lifestyle choice, one with limited opportunity for advancement. Bear in mind, people are born with different levels of academic intelligent capabilities. We are not all cut out to be A students, no matter how hard some people work in class, some of us will never rise above a C or B average. I'm not talking 'stupid' or special needs, but because someone is never going to get a passing grade in algebra does not mean they haven't tried. So it is a struggle to finish high school, and impractical to pursue college. Many people choose not to go to college because it's not really an option. They are expected out of high school to support themselves and possibly contribute to the family's income. Or they just never got the direction as to what is out there. People born into a lower or working class family often fall into the same pattern because that's all they known. Perhaps they enjoy being auto mechanics, or plumbers, or printers, or other people who contribute to society just as much as people in white-collar positions do. Sure, it would be nice to make a lot more money than what they were paying at the sawmill when Joe Bluecollar left highschool to go to work there, but it paid enough for him to marry his sweetheart and start his family, so I'm sure he felt pretty good about it. Perhaps the hard work is a temporary measure, even Abe Lincoln took pride in his log splitting abilities, while he advanced himself in other areas. From your post, PalmBeachPaul, you are sounding awfully elitist. Besides throwing out that 'diligence' perhaps you should be considering some other words, like 'tolerance' and 'compassion.' We tolerate too much. And we've so perverted the word "compassion" that it is now considered "compassionate" to coddle people from cradle to grave, never challenging them to be more, creating useless dependents of them, robbing them of their dignity, and their identity-- killing their spirit.
|
|
Frugal Nurse
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 18:19:55 GMT -5
Posts: 988
|
Post by Frugal Nurse on Jan 26, 2011 8:33:17 GMT -5
Wow, guys. What a bunch of assumptous and arrogant statements. Someone has serious anger issues. To begin with, for those who consider manual laborers lazy. Yes, it is most often a lifestyle choice, one with limited opportunity for advancement. Bear in mind, people are born with different levels of academic intelligent capabilities. We are not all cut out to be A students, no matter how hard some people work in class, some of us will never rise above a C or B average. I'm not talking 'stupid' or special needs, but because someone is never going to get a passing grade in algebra does not mean they haven't tried. So it is a struggle to finish high school, and impractical to pursue college. Many people choose not to go to college because it's not really an option. They are expected out of high school to support themselves and possibly contribute to the family's income. Or they just never got the direction as to what is out there. People born into a lower or working class family often fall into the same pattern because that's all they known. Perhaps they enjoy being auto mechanics, or plumbers, or printers, or other people who contribute to society just as much as people in white-collar positions do. Sure, it would be nice to make a lot more money than what they were paying at the sawmill when Joe Bluecollar left highschool to go to work there, but it paid enough for him to marry his sweetheart and start his family, so I'm sure he felt pretty good about it. Perhaps the hard work is a temporary measure, even Abe Lincoln took pride in his log splitting abilities, while he advanced himself in other areas. From your post, PalmBeachPaul, you are sounding awfully elitist. Besides throwing out that 'diligence' perhaps you should be considering some other words, like 'tolerance' and 'compassion.' The point of this thread is that we are tired of hearing the woe is me stories from people who don't have the motivation to change their lives. If they are happy being hard-labor workers, then this has nothing to do with them. Anyone can pursue college, even at the community college level a C student will still earn a college degree if they apply themselves. Not going to college and/or not finishing college involves a degree of not wanting to do the work (laziness). College is possible for everyone. I had to support myself at age 18, so what? It is possible to work and go to school, even if you have to go to school part time. These days, most community and public state colleges offer degree programs that are entirely online, so the student could do the class around their work schedule. They can get loans to cover their expenses. If their parents are no longer supporting them, the student probably doesn't make much money, and would therefore qualify for all sorts of grants, all they have to do is file a petition with the student aid office to be declared an adult, not dependent on their parents. The people who "didn't get direction as to what was out there" didn't pay much attention. High school counselors spend a great deal of time trying to educate students about college. There are websites dedicated to finding the right college for you, finding the best financial aid options, choosing a career, etc. Anyone who fails to utilize these tools and waits on someone else to do it for them is being lazy.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 26, 2011 9:38:07 GMT -5
"Good thing WCP knew he was going to endure the living hell of residing in Illinois for fifteen years and was prepared. Had an alcoholic parent, you are a widower at a young age with kids and debt, etc." I gather Paul is WCP and that's his story? If so, my condolences on the loss of your wife, Paul. Yes, Paul was WindyCityPaul on the old MSN boards. He's no longer in Chicago (I think he was actually in a suburb based on comments previously made) and I don't think his wife is deceased. I think the poster of that comment was trying to say that death of a spouse is an unlucky thing that we cannot be "diligent" against.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 26, 2011 9:42:15 GMT -5
|
|
Loopdilou
Well-Known Member
AKA Mrs. Dark Honor
Joined: Feb 27, 2012 19:41:33 GMT -5
Posts: 1,365
|
Post by Loopdilou on Jan 26, 2011 9:45:57 GMT -5
2 pages of people masturbating over their superiority. YM is definitely back!
|
|
|
Post by sue on Jan 26, 2011 9:56:38 GMT -5
"The point of this thread is that we are tired of hearing the woe is me stories from people who don't have the motivation to change their lives." You could always stop reading...
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 26, 2011 10:00:11 GMT -5
There are a lot of warning signs that people ignore. I did, to my and my children's detriment.
|
|
|
Post by sue on Jan 26, 2011 10:02:54 GMT -5
"So, yeah- life happens; but we accept too much in the way of excuses"
I guess it's not 8 or 800 in my opinion... my "bs story" is not an excuse to me, but an explanation as to why I've taken a detour in a few areas. Not every single mom is a welfare check collecting lazy multiple baby daddy waste of space. I don't expect your sympathy nor your condemnation.
|
|
|
Post by sue on Jan 26, 2011 10:09:02 GMT -5
"I think most of the whining out there is by politicians and activists on behalf of people who aren't actually whining and complaining. I think the (conscious) dependent class is relatively small-- if you don't count the 47% of people who either pay no income taxes, or actually take money directly or indirectly (another topic altogether, but we do need to raise taxes to solve our deficit and debt issues-- we're going to have to start taxing everyone, and that means the so-called "working poor" and especially the middle class)."
Taxing everyone does not buy votes.
|
|
Frugal Nurse
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 18:19:55 GMT -5
Posts: 988
|
Post by Frugal Nurse on Jan 26, 2011 11:02:43 GMT -5
Ok, so even if the high school counselors didn't cram that stuff down your throat, there is nothing stopping a person from getting on the internet and finding the information themselves.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 26, 2011 11:19:51 GMT -5
Ok, so even if the high school counselors didn't cram that stuff down your throat, there is nothing stopping a person from getting on the internet and finding the information themselves. Nope, there's nothing stopping anyone from going online nowadays. But in the mid-to late 1980s, there wasn't an Internet to turn to. It meant researching phone numbers and calling colleges and having them mail you stuff or going to college fairs to collect the paperwork. What's normal today was not normal even 15 years ago. I did have a plan of sorts for college which my mom derailed but that's a different story.
|
|