Consequences

[thyme4change]

now.msn.com/living/0428-cheater-sues-school.aspx

Dad sues school district after son is punished for cheating

A father is suing his son's Northern California school district for throwing the boy out of an honors English class after he was caught cheating. The sophomore at Sequoia High School in Redwood City copied someone else's essay, which aside from being just plain wrong, also goes against the "honesty pledge" students sign at the beginning of the class, making it explicitly clear that any cheating will result in expulsion from honors courses. Clear cut, right? Well, the dad is pointing out a conflicting school policy that says students won't be punished for cheating until the second time they're caught. Um, can the second incidence of cheating be this dad trying to cheat the school system and bend the rules for his kid?

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I think one of the comments said it best: "We need more consequences, less whining."

[Deleted]

I think the dad sucks, but maybe he has a case... By the time it is resolved, the term will be over I'm sure, so I don't see how this will help the child.

[Deleted]

The kid did cheat twice. One when he cheated on the exam and the second was when he lied with the honesty pledge.

If I were the Dad I would be ashamed.

But I suspect the apple doesn't fall from the tree. Anything is o.k. if you can get away with it.

[milee]

What a message to send to your kid. The kid is going to think that cheating or being dishonest is OK as long as you exploit all the legal loopholes.

If my kid cheated, expulsion would be the least of his worries.

[Deleted]

Well, the school does have to follow its written policy. And, kids do make mistakes as well. I would think there would be punishment for any incidence of cheating, not a free pass on the supposed first time.

[2kids10horses]

In my opinion is the kid (and probably parent, too) signed a contract at the beginning of the class that is more restrictive than general school policy. They did so knowingly, and by so doing they explicitly waived their right to "cheat once". This was part of the price to get the "Honors" education.

How can anyone be considered to be an "Honor" student, if he is allowed to cheat?

He should not be able to finish that Honors class. Next year, he could reapply.

[Deleted]

Parents need to step back and ask themselves if their children would be better served to SUFFER the consequences of what they have done for their ultimate long term good. My teen son had some problems with school and finally i just said "sink or swim" buddy. It's up to you. If you don't do the work, then you can go to detention, flunk a grade or be expelled. I sat in the Principal's office ON THE SIDE of the Principal because i had to support the authority of the school and because he was not doing what he was supposed too. It isn't easy as a parent to do that. But, i have found it is better for them to learn that, to understand that authorities can make decisions and that they are required to do their part too.

[mollyanna58]

It seems counter-productive. Sure, if it works, the kid gets back into the honors class and it goes on his transcripts. However, he's also been publicly branded a cheater. Without a lawsuit, only the kid, the parents, and some people in the school would know about the cheating. Now it's out there on the internet. Any college admissions officer, scholarship committee, or future employer who does a Google search will find that 1) the kid is a cheater, and 2) when caught, he whined about it instead of taking his medicine.

[Deleted]

cheaters never make it in this world, so no need to worry.

[Deleted]

I can see the father trying it. Why should his kid be the only one with consequences? When everyone under the sun seems to get away with everything it is hard not to feel like the shmuck that gets to learn "life lessons" over stuff like this. The fact is dishonesty does pay. The nightly news reports on it regularly.

[milee]

Apr 30, 2012 9:12:12 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

cheaters never make it in this world, so no need to worry.

Seems to have all worked out OK for Joe Biden.

www.plagiarismtoday.com/2008/08/26/the-biden-plagiarism-scandal/

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2008/08/the_write_stuff.html

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2012 9:30:25 GMT -5 milee said:

Apr 30, 2012 9:12:12 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

cheaters never make it in this world, so no need to worry.

Seems to have all worked out OK for Joe Biden.

www.plagiarismtoday.com/2008/08/26/the-biden-plagiarism-scandal/

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2008/08/the_write_stuff.html

True.

Also, my comment was strictly facetious.

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2012 6:04:20 GMT -5 milee said:

What a message to send to your kid. The kid is going to think that cheating or being dishonest is OK as long as you exploit all the legal loopholes.

If my kid cheated, expulsion would be the least of his worries.

I really hate how people are nowadays.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 30, 2012 0:23:11 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

The kid did cheat twice. One when he cheated on the exam and the second was when he lied with the honesty pledge.

If I were the Dad I would be ashamed.

But I suspect the apple doesn't fall from the tree. Anything is o.k. if you can get away with it.

That's the first thing I thought when I read the article.

[sesfw]

An incident in this small town a couple of years ago.

Police busted up a teen beer party at the home of one of the school board members. Her daughter hosted the party while mom wasn't home and twenty five teens (age 16-17) were there and got charged. Mom came home and the first thing she said is 'Wasn't my fault'. Police shared with the school district the details of the party.

Daughter and her best friend, who was senoir class prez, later filed lawsuit against the school district and the police for 'invasion of privacy'. The friend was not allowed to make a speech at graduation so they each wanted $60K for their embarassment. In a letter to the editor of our local paper I asked them why should I pay them through my taxes for a bad decision they made. Told them it was time they learned the consequences of their actions, and they were learning this at a young age.

Haven't heard any more about this so I don't know where it is now. Daddy is an attorney so I hope he was able to convince the kids to drop it. A good Judge Judy case.

[formerroomate99]

A lot of people only care about their kid's career prospects and not whether or not they turn out to be a decent person. Pretty silly strategy if you also believe in heaven and hell. What you do during this lifetime isn't nearly as important as where you spend eternity.

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2012 10:09:00 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

A lot of people only care about their kid's career prospects and not whether or not they turn out to be a decent person. Pretty silly strategy if you also believe in heaven and hell. What you do during this lifetime isn't nearly as important as where you spend eternity.

Everyone sins, so this argument holds no water.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 30, 2012 9:05:24 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Hum...Interesting. My first thought was, there would be no need for things like honesty pledges if parents just taught their kids not to cheat.
Then, I remembered working with a freshman in high school who was being raised by his very strict Christian grandparents. They taught him to never
lie or cheat, but they were also so extremely hard on him about his grades, so much so that he felt he had to cheat to keep from getting punished.
I wonder if the father in this article was like these grandparents.

So you want to give him an excuse for cheating?

I had a student last summer who thought nothing of plagiarizing . She had been caught once and the prof that caught her gave me the head's up that she considered nothing wrong with this. Unfortunately, since she was foreign, her tuition $$$ were more important than cheating issues to the university.

My work tripled, since everything she gave me I had to scan as to whether or not it was plagiarized.

[formerroomate99]

Apr 30, 2012 10:12:16 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Apr 30, 2012 10:09:00 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

A lot of people only care about their kid's career prospects and not whether or not they turn out to be a decent person. Pretty silly strategy if you also believe in heaven and hell. What you do during this lifetime isn't nearly as important as where you spend eternity.

Everyone sins, so this argument holds no water.

It's kinda hard to get your sins forgiven if you don't think anything is a sin, though.

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2012 10:20:47 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Apr 30, 2012 10:12:16 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Everyone sins, so this argument holds no water.

It's kinda hard to get your sins forgiven if you don't think anything is a sin, though.

No idea. I think all sins can be forgiven, though, but I am not 100% sure.

[ontrack]

Plagiarism is rampant with foreign students. They were never taught it was wrong.

[formerroomate99]

I was in a mostly Chinese department where most of the students used passed down work for homework and takehome tests. They wanted me to lead a crusade against the COMPS test, but I refused because it was so obviously a way to get out of having to actually learn something. Even if that weren't the case, I have zero tolerance for people who try to get others to do things for them that they aren't willing to do for themselves.

[thyme4change]

I'd just be mad that my kid was so bad at cheating that he got caught.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think it's easier to get caught. Nowdays you can scan people's papers and up will pop where they stole the information from.

Before that you'd have to look thru every single source they used if they suspected you had plagarized. I remember how excited my HS English teacher was when they brought the software in because it made her job a hell of a lot easier.

[TheOtherMe]

I'd be mad my kid cheated and that I had failed in teaching him ethics.

[Sum Dum Gai]

It seems counter-productive. Sure, if it works, the kid gets back into the honors class and it goes on his transcripts. However, he's also been publicly branded a cheater. Without a lawsuit, only the kid, the parents, and some people in the school would know about the cheating. Now it's out there on the internet. Any college admissions officer, scholarship committee, or future employer who does a Google search will find that 1) the kid is a cheater, and 2) when caught, he whined about it instead of taking his medicine.

That was my first thought too. This dad is a friggin idiot! Newspapers don't ever take stories off the internet. Years from now when an employer googles this kid the story about his cheating is going to pop up. If you do something stupid like put a picture on your FB page of yourself getting high, you can take it down whenever you want. When a newspaper runs a story on you that shit lasts forever.

He might win the lawsuit and get credit for his one single honors class, but now he's electronically branded forever. Totally not worth it if you ask me.

[InsertCoolName]

Ummm, no everyone has free will. Doesn't matter what you see others doing, it's still your choice. Saying that the blame is on others is crazy. It was the kids choice to cheat. No one else.

This dad seems like he could be the poster child for helicopter parenting.

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2012 12:16:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

It seems counter-productive. Sure, if it works, the kid gets back into the honors class and it goes on his transcripts. However, he's also been publicly branded a cheater. Without a lawsuit, only the kid, the parents, and some people in the school would know about the cheating. Now it's out there on the internet. Any college admissions officer, scholarship committee, or future employer who does a Google search will find that 1) the kid is a cheater, and 2) when caught, he whined about it instead of taking his medicine.

That was my first thought too. This dad is a friggin idiot! Newspapers don't ever take stories off the internet. Years from now when an employer googles this kid the story about his cheating is going to pop up. If you do something stupid like put a picture on your FB page of yourself getting high, you can take it down whenever you want. When a newspaper runs a story on you that shit lasts forever.

He might win the lawsuit and get credit for his one single honors class, but now he's electronically branded forever. Totally not worth it if you ask me.

Could be a good thing for the same reasons. Sets you apart from the crowd. Any press is good press. And as long as he is ready to answer the questions it could work in his favor.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Any press is good press.

Not to a hiring manager. Sure, he might be able to spin it in an interview about what a great lesson he learned from the whole experience, how he found Jesus, turned his life around, etc., etc. That assumes he even gets the interview though. I can't be the only one that googles my short list before I call them to set up an interview. I'd probably trash the resume if I found something like this when I googled the kid.

[973beachbum]

Apr 30, 2012 11:07:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I think it's easier to get caught. Nowdays you can scan people's papers and up will pop where they stole the information from.

Before that you'd have to look thru every single source they used if they suspected you had plagarized. I remember how excited my HS English teacher was when they brought the software in because it made her job a hell of a lot easier.

At my daughters HS all essays and papers have to be turned in through the computer system that automatically scans for plagerism.