Exodus: God Blessed America?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Exodus 13:17-18

17 When Pharaoh let the people go, God did not lead them on the road through the Philistine country, though that was shorter. For God said, “If they face war, they might change their minds and return to Egypt.” 18 So God led the people around by the desert road toward the Red Sea. The Israelites went up out of Egypt ready for battle.

The Video below is evidence that archeology has basically proven that Exodus was a military campaign to free the Israelis from Egypt to spread Gods word. That Moses was a man with a plan and a tactical mind to pull it off.

Exodus 13:20-22

20 After leaving Sukkoth they camped at Etham on the edge of the desert. 21 By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night. 22 Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.

Egyptian Armies used fire and smoke to direct their Armies. Moses was able to use this fact and the fact that he knew the land to escape the Pharaoh. It’s recorded that Alexander the great used the same tactic years later to defeat the Egyptians in battle not just escape like Moses did.

Exodus 14:3

3 Pharaoh will think, ‘The Israelites are wandering around the land in confusion, hemmed in by the desert.’

Evidence of a tactical maneuver that started the Israelites escape through the Sea of Reeds(Red Sea) at night.

First, starting with the pillar of light described above, set at the wrong end of camp the Pharaoh would have thought the Israelis were lost and going the wrong way in the desert. When, in reality they were escaping the other way across the Sea of Reeds when the tide rolled out.

There is an area of the Sea of Reeds (Red Sea) 20 miles south of the Mediterranean that would have been crossable on foot when the tide rolled out.

When the Pharaoh and the Egyptians would have awoken the next morning, they would have advanced only to come across a swelling tide making the crossing useless to them and they would have most likely seen the advancing Israelites on the other side of the sea in the distance.

This however is only the first part of the struggle on the road to Canaan. Moses and the Israelis fought many battles that could have only been won if they would have been armed to the teeth as suggested in exodus 13:18 above.

The Amalekites were the first to attack the Israelites on the Battle to the Promised Land. This would have lead Moses to the conclusion that they would need a bigger army for the Battle ahead in Canaan. It’s not known exactly why Moses went to Sinai because it’s not in any of the texts.

However, it’s known that there were different tribes around Sinai and that one of them was the kenites, metal workers and weapons makers using the copper and tin deposits around Mt. Sinai to craft their weapons. It would have taken time to build the weapons that Moses would have wanted so Moses would have had time kill at Mt Sinai.

With the FACT the 10 commandments exist, as well as Judaism, and all of the Abrahamic religion accept Moses exists, we know Moses spent time in Sinai. We also know that when he returned down the Mt he was enraged at his people worshiping a Golden Calf. We know that he hired the Levites to be his personal body guard and that 3,500 died that day.

In Sinai he would have also been able to draw on the tribes to build his army to attack the bigger armies and forted towns of Canaan. The show does a great job explaining everything above in more detail and I hope that you can take the time to watch it because it is very inspiring and informative.

One thing we know is that Moses was never able to make it into the Promised Land. Ignoring the archaeological aspect of the story one would gather that it was for striking a rock in doubt of Gods Plan. However, if you look at the archaeological side along with the text, it’s not hard to come to the conclusion that one of the professors has come to. After the long journey the people had grown sick of the Dictator Moses using Gods word to instill his own wrath and they rose up and killed him.

Since God apparently told Moses that he wasn’t going to let him enter the Promised Land, one has to assume that god wasn’t 100% happy with the way that Moses led the Israelites to freedom.

The one thing that I find very funny with the show is that none of them can figure out what Moses is doing on the hilltops during the battles the Israelites are having. Really Guys? Summoning the power of God doesn’t come to mind?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The most important fact about the theory that God Blessed America is that it centers on known facts. There is definite evidence that both Washington and Jefferson were topographers, as well as, Masons. There are paintings of Washington in his mason gear.

We know that for a long time there was little education taught in Europe and what education there was, was taught based on the bible. We also know that during this time (600-1200 AD) the Islamics used business, science and math to build up a Caliphate that collapsed trade from Rome to Asia. They call this the Islamic Golden Age. Once they reached Spain, Rome started the Crusades for the Holy land, and business, science and math started to creep into the Holy Roman Empire.

We know that Muhammad existed and we know that he created a new religion to combat Rome’s Version of what he believed so strongly in. So we know that this time in history is accurate.

We know that once business, math, science and liberty started to creep into the Holy Roman Empire, an Age of Enlightenment began. This lead to the Renaissance Era, the study of what happened before the empire, and what had been lost during the medieval times.

This then leads us full circle in the theory, back to the Revolutions from the church and monarchy. Aside from the fact that there are paintings of Washington as a Mason, there are Mason symbols all over Washington and now everywhere in North America. In fact, if you look at Washington from above there are two famous symbols in the streets of DC. One is the Masons emblem and the other is a Star.

If we look a little further into the origins of the Masons we find that they based their beliefs of obtaining knowledge through science and the spirit. Their main emblem is a square (wisdom) facing up and a compass (the idea of a sovereign person looking outside their circle for knowledge and light) facing down. There is a G in the middle; the G stands for God the grand architect of the universe. This idea is that we need a source of light to enlighten ourselves. We cannot do it alone.

We know that the Masons worked with Adam Weishaupt to undermine the influence of the Church and monarchy to cause the revolutions in both France and the US. We know that Adam Weishaupt, was a Jesuit (Expansion of freedom through business and knowledge) who was set on restoring Jesus’ true word.

Which brings us back to the star in DC's roads, the Mason’s symbols, and the symbols that are unmistakably Egyptian and Greco-Roman. Lots of speculation has been put out there about the star pattern in Washington streets such as the Fathers being part of the Occult, summing the Aliens somehow. However, the fact that the Star of David is a very big part of the Abrahamic religion never seems to enter the argument much.

We know that the masons and the Illuminati saw themselves as people leading the slaves to freedom just like Moses did. This ties into the Egyptians symbols and then of course there is the Greco-Roman symbols, which just happen to be the exact time that Jesus was on this earth.

The fact of the matter is that after working their asses off and spending a fortune of their own money to get our freedom; Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and others went a long way to making sure that the Masons and by extension Jesus and God’s mark was left on the creation of the early USA. They also went out of their way to make sure that symbols of the most important times to the Abrahamic religion were infused with the vision that they saw, not only for their new country, but a new world ruled under God.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

DC Roadways




Masonic Symbol at the George Washington National Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, Virginia

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The Idea that God has been watching us since the Exodus from Egypt.




The Idea of a Freeworld Through God and the USA!

God Blessed the USA!!! Thanks JC!!!

[Deleted]

And here's the written history we believe in and hold to as God's absolute truth according to the bible.

We know that God so loved the world He gave his only begotten Son, for us, that whosoever believe what we know to be true concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ, shall have everlasting life with him.. So says John 3:16..

We know this according to the historical writings of the bible we believe are God breathed (written by men).. 2 Timothy 3:16..

We also know what we believe written so long ago, must be walked in, by our total faith in God.
2 Corinthians 5:7..

We know this too, not everyone will believe what we know to be true.

Today marks a glorious day of celebration for those who believe in the finished work on the cross of Jesus Christ, on the worlds behalf, should any so believe.. Today is Resurrection Day and is the power of God unto salvation which we who believe and are not ashamed of..
Romans 1:16

[Deleted]

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

heart, I'm too tired right now to read, but from what I can see.. Thanks!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Hey heart... Yes, it's all about balance and YES it's very important that the message of love was spread through the kingdom of Rome, that's EXACTLY what got this whole thing going.. Honestly, I just posted this on the Relative evolution thread, but I think I will post it here. I think you will like it heart.

This is the thread if you or anyone else wants to read it...
notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=perspectives&action=display&thread=21039

I think that a lot of people forget about how, in relation to time, the Holocaust was just basically yesterday. I was reminded about it quite a bit in school.. Brown and Hair and eyes wouldn't have made it in Hitlers world. That and the fact the I lost family in WW2 made it so that I didn't forget I can tell you that.. This is also why I KNOW that we have evolved from a creation that God made, we can see the primate activities in our species all the time, just like you pointed out.

I agree that there are lot of places on this earth that are still very savage.. In fact, I think that most people that have been born here and are a few generations away from the "old" world order, tend to over look that we(the western world) are the ONLY places on earth that really have relative peace. We are really still the only place the little guy can make it with being persecuted, mostly... The reason that I point to the 60's, it's really only been since the 60's that we have started to evolve socially and we are just now seeing it on an international level.

Interracial marriage's were unheard of and condemned immensely before that time, segregation was everywhere in the community. The N-word, and many other slang words were used to describe people that weren't white, in public, and this was accepted as the norm.. You would find yourself in hot water really fast for that now. Ladies in the workplace aside from the service industry basically unheard of before the 60's, my mom remember my grandma having to sit in the car while my grandpa went into the bar. I could go on but I know you know what I'm saying.

A lot of that had to do with tech. Typewrites got the ladies into the office, before that, freed slaves stared to run business and invent things. The civil war was largely organized and eventually won because the north had the telegraph, advance manufacturing to produce more weapons, and a rail road to system to move it all on.

These are the same types of things were are seeing in China, Africa and the Middle east right now. The rest of the world is literally 150 years behind us in their development because even thought they have claimed to be communists about the people, they are really a monarchy about a kind on top. This is WHY the communist manifesto was largely sponsored by the Western monarch in the first place, it was about getting that man made kingdom back.

Basically, tech and industry has force the social evolution that we have been experiencing here(in the West) over the last 150 years because of.... tech and industry, mixed with FREEDOM!

The way I see it, the Ten Commandments are basically a map to treat each other as equals and try to do what we can to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth. It has grown from a little SLAVE religion in Egypt into the BIGGEST religion on Earth and there is a reason for that. I also know that since JC was here, anyone who hasn't believed in Freedom, business, science and math has been left behind. Going forward we have a real chance to all just WORK and leave each other ALONE!!!!!!



Below as it is Above or ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN!!!

God Blessed America!

[Deleted]

Ahamburger. Hi.

Not quite sure the point(s) you are making. Well, maybe one in an obscure kind of way..

Going forward we have a real chance to all just WORK and leave each other ALONE!!!!!!

Is ^this^ a desire of yours?

May I ask you a pointed question, Ahamburger? A simple answer of yes or no is all I require.

Do you believe in the God of the bible, the creator of the universe? The One God that you make reference to here.

If your answer is no, then I would have to assume, neither do you believe in His Son as Savior for the world and to those who will believe..

Just curious..

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

;D

I think that it is the desire of most people to not be bothered really. To just be able to be kind and peaceful with each other; love.

Then there are the ones that really want to make a lot of money and dominate, rule and be kings...

I believe that the Koran and the New Testament say that Jesus was of miraculous birth. I believe that Jesus the Messiah/Savior was a brilliant mind that did a lot more and in different ways than he is given credit for. I believe that it's the same one god in the Koran the New Testament and The Torah, that because of Freemasonry and the USA we have moved forward at a faster pace than at any time that we know of.

IMO it's that same one god that is the creater of the universe because in the end we are now all, almost, talking about the concept of one God, and it's INDUSTRY and business that has brought us here. It's like the Great Milton Friedman said..

Industrial progress, mechanical improvement, all of the great wonders of the modern era have meant relatively little to the wealthy. The rich in Ancient Greece would have benefited hardly at all from modern plumbing : running servants replaced running water.

Television and radio? The Patricians of Rome could enjoy the leading musicians and actors in their home, could have the leading actors as domestic retainers. Ready-to-wear clothing, supermarkets - all these and many other modern developments would have added little to their life.

The great achievements of Western Capitalism have redounded primarily to the benefit of the ordinary person. These achievements have made available to the masses conveniences and amenities that were previously the exclusive prerogative of the rich and powerful
― Milton Friedman................

...................................“Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, it’s only the other fellow who’s greedy.

The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.

If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.”
― Milton Friedman

A system that is set up to make the greedy happy and lift the slaves out of poverty, all anchored by a SLAVE religion based on freedom. Centered for the last 2000+ yrs around a guy that was executed so badly in public that is was never forgot.

Thanks JC!!

The bonus, thanks to science we know for a fact that the God particle, or dark matter for the scientists, really does exists. That means that there is ONE thing that is the opposite of all matter in the Universe, that is inside of everything in the universe.

Scientists Gain New Insight into Dark Matter
blogs.voanews.com/science-world/2012/04/04/scientists-gain-new-insight-into-dark-matter/

[Deleted]

Uh uh.. Noooooooo no no..

I am still waiting for a yes or no from you, Ahamburger.. You are telling me what others said (think). ;D

By the way, I don't believe any derogatory or God ordained seemingly (to many) derogatory historical events and even the events leading up to this very moment, negates any truth about the One True God or his Son, Jesus the Christ..

YES or NO

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

LOL.. I'm sorry heart, that was a BIG yes. Glad to hear we see eye to eye.

I also believe that JC was of miraculous/divine birth because the Koran was designed as an opposing force to the Holy Roman Empire. Muhammad seen himself as a freedom fighter/truth spreader and he still included JC's miraculous birth in his bible. I also know for a fact that the USA was set up as a nation under the one God the is in the Torah/NT/QRN.

I also know for a fact that France went away from God completely when they first got their Republic and it didn't' take very long for that Republic to fall because of a dictator, Napoleon.

Cult of Reason
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason

As you can see history is my favorite subject, I luv to talk about it. When I get into conversations with non believers about it, I always start with. "Look at it like this, Earth is God. Everything we have comes form the earth. Oil makes most of our products, steel and wood are our homes and thanks to knowledge in books made from trees, we have finally just started to get along with one another."

From there it gets steered into, "Now, what created the Earth?"

For me now, I go into dark matter. It's the thing that is opposite to all matter and is found everywhere in the universe. The reality is that all of our knowledge has only brought us to the conclusion of one supreme entity.

On a personal note, I'm married to a French Catholic Queen and my two oldest kids go to French Catholic School, the third will too. ;D

[Deleted]

So. Ahamburg.. History, being relative to the framing of our worlds and a man's beliefs.. Tell me. Who do you put your faith/trust/hope in? I know you enjoy reading what is written in the halls of history and choose to believe history. But, most choose their spiritual foundation upon one historical person -event -truth -perspective -philosophy -doctrine, etc,.. Relative truths are then built layer by layer upon that one, same, footing.. Is this correct? Of course, every man can make choice to believe in the here and the now and when that's over, all is over!

In more words. One has liberty to believe historical events and the people involved in that history.. For examples. -Noah the person of the bible and the eventful flood. Both man and event relative to the other. -God, creator of the universe and redeemer of mankind.. Both again, relative to the other, layers of truths built upon, one truth, God being redeemer, reconciling man to himself, fully and totally when the world as we know it, ceases to exist, by the returning of Jesus Christ to claim its bride, the church, to those who believe to return with him, Jesus Christ to spend eternity with God in heaven, forever.

Ahamburg. Are you saying yes to the above? I just want to be clear for my record of Ahamburg.

As you can see history is my favorite subject, I luv to talk about it. When I get into conversations with non believers about it, I always start with. "Look at it like this, Earth is God. Everything we have comes form the earth. Oil makes most of our products, steel and wood are our homes and thanks to knowledge in books made from trees, we have finally just started to get along with one another."

I believe the following as it is written in the word of God and don't look at the earth as God himself, only the glory of himself:

1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.
2 For He has founded it upon the seas,
And established it upon the waters. Psalm 24:1

Ahamburg. When you say non believer's here. Exactly what do you mean? I will not put words in your mouth, so I await your explanation.

[ktunes]

Exodus: God Blessed America?

yes, i believe God has blessed america, as well as other nations, but for different reasons...the covenant promises to abraham being the key...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Exactly ktunes, it's all about the razor..... It was about more than just a country.

But, most choose their spiritual foundation upon one historical person -event -truth -perspective -philosophy -doctrine, etc,.. Relative truths are then built layer by layer upon that one, same, footing.. Is this correct?

Yes it is correct..

I put my faith in that God Particle/Dark Matter/spirit, and base my understanding of things on the fact that there had to be a starting point to everything. That thanks to the USA and Freedom we have moved toward treating each other better on a universal scale for the first time in the history of both science and the bible.

I live my life everyday trying to be decent to people around me and try to do what I can to help. I don't know when the end will be, therefore, I choose to live my life like there will be no end in my grandchildren's lives because I want to make sure I make good long term decisions. I know, as a newly freed slave, to give thanks to the Messiah JC and his plan. That he is the reason I have the opportunity to make a long term investment plan for my family.

In more words. One has liberty to believe historical events and the people involved in that history.....

One has liberty to believe because of the USA and God. Thank JC!

When you say non believer's here. Exactly what do you mean? I will not put words in your mouth, so I await your explanation.

I mean the people in life that don't believe in God for whatever reason, I was talking about a great starting point for a conversation with people like that, as it always leads to the point of.. Who created the Earth?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

This song sums this up nicely, Bob Marley was one great Zionist...




Preacher man, don't tell me,
Heaven is under the earth.
I know you don't know
What life is really worth.
It's not all that glitters is gold;
'Alf the story has never been told:
So now you see the light, eh!
Stand up for your rights. come on!

Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!

Most people think,
Great god will come from the skies,
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high.
But if you know what life is worth,
You will look for yours on earth:
And now you see the light,
You stand up for your rights. jah!

So you better:
Get up, stand up! (in the morning! git it up! )
Stand up for your rights! (stand up for our rights! )
Get up, stand up!
Don't give up the fight! (don't give it up, don't give it up! )
Get up, stand up! (get up, stand up! )
Stand up for your rights! (get up, stand up! )
Get up, stand up! (... )
Don't give up the fight! (get up, stand up! )
Get up, stand up! (... )
Stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up!
Don't give up the fight!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

From the Exodus, to the USA, to the The Symbol of the Grand Mason's Lodge in Israel.. Thanks JC.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I'm going to move this timeline here as I can't think of a better place to finish this off.. ;D

Started Jan 1. 2012


There are many examples of Currency debasement, the most famous is of course the Romans debasement of their current to pay for wars. However, the most interesting part of early Roman history is how around year 0, the Roman Empire was looking for a way to make money. Ironically right around year 0, according to Roman history, an era of prosperity came across the land. They call this era.. Pax Romana en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Romana..

However what is left out of the history of Pax Romana, is the revolts in Judea that were caused by the Zealotry en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealotry

The Zealots were a "fourth sect", founded by Judas of Galilee

Of course there are lots of questions surrounding this time in history, however, to get a better understanding of what the Romans most likely did, we can do what we all do and look for the cycles.

If we fast forward to the middle ages, we can see that when the Kings and Queens where short of money, they brought business in to build up their empire again. Just like the Romans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Jew


However, as we can see, just like in the days of the Romans, once private enterprise had helped the wealth of the Kings and Queens, what did they do with their Jewish Friends..(still from the same wiki entry)

However, despite this economic prosperity, the community was not safe. In the second half of the high medieval period, religious hostility increased to the extent that it manifested itself in the form of massacres and expulsions, culminating in the eventual expulsion of all Jews from most of Western Europe in the late medieval period.

So the question is for now, who was the Court Jew for the Romans that brought on this prosperity?

Tetrarchy (Judea)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrarchy_(Judea)

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

When you look at the link for PAX Romana, you will see that Octavius en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus tried two times to force the Roman people to accept peace the way he created it. We know from studying him now that he was shrewd and violent. A tyrant really that only knew war, as all Romans did at the time. He wanted to bring the Republic to the ground and have his family run Rome as an empire. A nice person this man was not. Yet, according to Roman History, this is how he brought Peace and Prosperity upon the land(from the link)

The city of Rome was utterly transformed under Augustus, with Rome's first institutionalized police force, fire fighting force, and the establishment of the municipal prefect as a permanent office.[204] The police force was divided into cohorts of 500 men each, while the units of firemen ranged from 500 to 1,000 men each, with 7 units assigned to 14 divided city sectors.[204] A praefectus vigilum, or "Prefect of the Watch" was put in charge of the vigiles, Rome's fire brigade and police.[205] With Rome's civil wars at an end, Augustus was also able to create a standing army for the Roman Empire, fixed at a size of 28 legions of about 170,000 soldiers.[206] This was supported by numerous auxiliary units of 500 soldiers each, often recruited from recently conquered areas.[207] With his finances securing the maintenance of roads throughout Italy, Augustus also installed an official courier system of relay stations overseen by a military officer known as the praefectus vehiculorum.[208] Besides the advent of swifter communication amongst Italian polities, his extensive building of roads throughout Italy also allowed Rome's armies to march swiftly and at an unprecedented pace across the country.[209] In the year 6 Augustus established the aerarium militare, donating 170 million sesterces to the new military treasury that provided for both active and retired soldiers.[210]

He also wanted to relate to and connect with the concerns of the plebs and lay people. He achieved this through various means of generosity and a cutting back of lavish excess. In the year 29 BC, Augustus paid 400 sesterces each to 250,000 citizens, 1,000 sesterces each to 120,000 veterans in the colonies, and spent 700 million sesterces in purchasing land for his soldiers to settle upon.[213] He also restored 82 different temples to display his care for the Roman pantheon of deities.[213] In 28 BC, he melted down 80 silver statues erected in his likeness and in honor of him, an attempt of his to appear frugal and modest.[213]

Again, had he not attempted twice before to force his people into Peace, that would be believable. It would be even more believable if at that exact point in time this wasn't going on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christians#Jewish_origin_of_Christianity

Even more believable again if Augusta hadn't just done this before he brought on that peace(again from the first link)


But the thing that makes it truly unbelievable to me that this Tyrant came up with the idea to bring property to his people through business and charity is that fact that as we can see from the Court Jew link in the post above, when a King or noble died his fianceeer or Jewish Business partners was crucified. This is especially important when you consider that once Augusta died he was to be(same link again)


This of course would include Judea, and once Augusta dies his business partner would have found it very cold in the court of Augusta. He would have then returned home to his people, to have them celebrate him bringing peace to the land. This would not have sat well with the Roman Emperor...... This was right around 14-30 AD, Ya Know?..... Then of course this happens(From the Jewish Christan link)

A further blow to this Jewish sect was the death of their second leader (their first leader Jesus having been crucified c.30). According to Josephus, "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" met his death after the death of the procurator Porcius Festus, yet before Lucceius Albinus took office [26] — which has thus been dated to 62. The High Priest Ananus ben Ananus took advantage of this lack of imperial oversight to assemble a Sanhedrin (although the correct translation of the Greek 'synhedion kriton' is 'a council of judges', see Synedrion for the Greek use of the word) who condemned James "on the charge of breaking the law," then had him executed by stoning.

Which takes us right back to the post above again and the.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealotry

LOVE not WAR, makes more. Thanks JC.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

To understand this time frame better we have to go back a bit... Cyrus the Great en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great was able to craft one of the largest Empires the world had even seen. He was interested in human rights and equality, through plundering of course.

This man is important because he influenced the early Greek thinkers. This eventually led to a man by the name of Alexander the Great. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

Most know the story of Alexander, how by the age of 28 he had conquered the known world and created the largest empire the world had ever seen. Also a champion of human rights and equality, through plundering of course.

When Alexander died, Hellenzation swept over the world. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_civilization

The result; all of the people that lived in the known world being mix together, great cities being (forcibly) built by the Greeks, and the Greek culture being infused (forced) with all the different cultures of Alexander’s Empire.

However, most of this happened after Alexander died, as all people do, and there was years of fighting over how Alexander would have wanted his legacy to be carried out. In one Greek province, in the city of Alexandria (the City Alexander built), the Ptolemy dynasty built the Library of Alexandria, most likely created to continue the legacy of Alexander. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

This is a great story, as long as you aren’t a common person. For you, you live in the gutters in your own excrement, as slaves. It was especially bad for people who didn’t want to worship Zeus, or any other Greek god, only the true god. The Hellinzation of Judaism resulted... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_Judaism

The decline of Hellenistic Judaism in the 2nd century CE is obscure. It may be that it was marginalized by, absorbed into or became Early Christianity.

Yes there it is again. The idea that we are ALL created equal, that we are all gods Children, and that we all deserve to be free. Since this was around 2300 years ago, we know the irony in this now. Which is of course, born from the persecution of plundering, Christianity has become the largest “empire” that the world has ever seen.

God's far from dead in the global South
www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/margaret-wente/gods-far-from-dead-in-the-global-south/article2281615/

Thanks JC.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I'm going to take a quick pause from the historical timeline, to bring up one aspect of human nature that drives us.

Greed is unavoidable.

Make no mistake about it, everything that we enjoy today, was because of economic self interest. However, just like the emperor Augustus donated his money to help, US citizens alone donate over 300 billion dollars a year.

At the end of the 19th century, the welfare capitalism movement took hold as a response to growing civil unrest over the greed that existed because of Capitalism and industrialization.

This time, we do what one of the greatest men to ever lived suggested; and teach people how to fish. Using Liberal Capitalism to lead the world from this point, will bring on a system of balance that Paul of Tarsus talks about.

Christian corporatism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_corporatism

The reason that communism and socialism have failed to work how Karl Marx predicted, is because Karl Marx had a flawed understanding of economics; he seemed to have missed the fact that it has existed for thousands of years in an organized form. Karl also failed to recognize the industrial revolution wasn't a mere movement of capitalism, but a shift in the understanding of the balance of mankind, that took thousands of years to come to fruition.

Love, not war, makes more. Thanks JC

A great Milton Friedman quote:

Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, it’s only the other fellow who’s greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Some people rebel; some "fall off the wagon"; some get on the wagon and discover religion later in life.

Awe, Virg, you DO know me so well... ;D


This is why I luv historical context. As others have said, JC wasn't a Christian, he was Jewish. He accepted John the Baptists teachings of water for purification instead of blood. Why is this baptism important?

For most likely millions of years before that, people had been using human, animal, child and blood sacrifices to appease some form of god. How a logical person can know this, and deny there is a god, I will never get.

When Herod died, we know that his kingdom broke up. We also know that Augusta went out to solidify his Empire around the time Herod had died. Again, Augusta was trying to find a way to force peace on his people, when Jewish Christianty was GROWING fast in Judea? Then just at this exact time, Augusta the Tyrant came up with the idea of peace and charity through business(people first)??

Once Augusta the Tyrant Died, the worship of Cesar was born. Roma was to worship Augusta like a god.

This again connects with a man remembered today for Giving away Money (Wealthy people could have only given money, because everyone else had NO money. At that time in history, WE were ALL slaves). Walking WITH the ladies; and of course, worshiped one divine entity that was responsible for creating everything that existed everywhere. Not a Cesar, or any other form, because he was Jewish, but not orthodox (blood sacrifice and circumcision). He believed that we are all Gods children; and could find god through the spirit that we all feel inside of us.

Back home in Judea, he would have been hailed as a savior of the Jewish people. Since Judea was part of Roma the forcing of Cesar worship was also there. How did these people respond to being forced to accept the LIE that Augusta had brought peace?.. Well.. Zealots.

Zealotry
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealotry

Around the time Roma executed Jesus brother James, the Jewish revolts started. This eventually resulted in the Jewish people winning their freedom...

Bar Kokhba revolt
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba%27s_revolt

Then the debate on if Jesus had saved them or not started...The Jewish people in the middle east continued to be merchants and study science and math arts and literature. Zealous Jewish sects would eventually be absorbed into Islam. Yes, the Koran states that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah.

Jesus in Islam
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

Of course on the other side once Jesus was crucified, a doubter by the name of Paul, changed his tune on Jewish Christianity, and then you have the Birth of the Religion of Christianity in Rome. Paul wrote about presumably one of Christ teachings.

Christian corporatism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_corporatism

So I ask again, what if this younger generation accepts Freedom AND god?

Messianic Age??
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age

( there are close to 4 billion Chirstain/Muslims/Jewish people in the world that all worship the same god that Abraham taught about, so democratically, we are already there anyway)

[Don Perignon]

Zealots, like the Poor, are a thing that will always be with us. People with Messianic delusions, ditto.
But they rarely, if ever, bring loaves or fishes to the table.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I agree. It's all about facilitation for balance don. The fact that JC brought food to the poor and wanted freedom for the slaves, and the fact the he never anointed himself the savoir says a lot about who he was. Of course there is the other small thing, basically, everything that has happened over the last 2000 yrs in one way or another leads back to him. The truth is out there.. ;D

[trevorw2539]

My thoughts are these:

Exodus 13:17-18. The Israelites went out armed for battle. Not ready. The fact that God sent them another way than face the warlike 'Philistines' shows that. The fact that where necessary they diverted from the easiest route.

I haven't been able to access the video but all my studies indicate that there is no 'proveable' archaeological evidence for the Exodus. A few disagree, but the general opinion is against. Perhaps you could give me the webpage for the video so I can see for myself.

Exodus 13:20-22 The use of fire and smoke as signals has been used by many peoples.
As far as I am aware Alexander never fought the Egyptians. He defeated the Persians who had treated the Egyptians badly, and was welcomed by them without a fight.

Exodus 14:3. This had to do with the manouvre, not the 'fire'.

Sea of Reeds and Red Sea are different locations. Yam (sea) Suph (reeds/rushes) wrongly translated 'Red Sea' centuries ago.

Surprisingly enough Moses 'fought' few battles as leader. It was mainly Joshua who led in battle. Moses main purpose was to lead the people to Canaan. For this purpose God sent him into the wilderness for many years, to work for his father-in-law Laban.
This was to prepare him for desert life, experience he would need to lead a 'settled' people in a nomadic life.
This theme is echoed throughout the Bible.
We know Joshua was trained as a young man by Moses for years. David was anointed king, but spent many years learning how to lead and command men before assuming his role after Sauls death. Jesus was 18 years in preparation for his ministry (Age 12-30). Paul was converted, then spent the next decade and more learning his 'trade' before being found by Barnabas and becoming a figure in the Christian faith.

Moses did not enter Canaan for a specific reason. The Waters of Meribah.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, TO SANCTIFY ME in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Given that the Bible is the History of the writers we must accept that much written is from their viewpoint.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I wish you would have been able to access the Video in the second post Trevor. There is plenty of archaeological evidence in it about how Exodus was actually a battle. It's goes into the Sea of Reeds and everything.. The episode is called Battles BC: Moses and the Death Chase... Hope this link works for you... It's a 42 min video



It's also recorded that the people rose up against Moses in the story of the Water..

"You take too much upon yourself, Moses. Not just you, but all the congregation is holy, every one of us. Why do you raise yourself up above the congregation?”
(Numbers 16:2-3)

As I was saying, was it simply because he didn't believe and struck a rock that God did not let him enter? Or because of his poor leadership overall towards the end, and eventual death at the hands of his own people that God didn't let him enter? You can't write a story and have the hero go down by the hands of his own people at the end for being arrogant, can you?

[trevorw2539]

Jul 16, 2012 1:27:58 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I wish you would have been able to access the Video in the second post Trevor. There is plenty of archaeological evidence in it about how Exodus was actually a battle. It's goes into the Sea of Reeds and everything.. The episode is called Battles BC: Moses and the Death Chase... Hope this link works for you... It's a 42 min video



It's also recorded that the people rose up against Moses in the story of the Water..




"You take too much upon yourself, Moses. Not just you, but all the congregation is holy, every one of us. Why do you raise yourself up above the congregation?”
(Numbers 16:2-3)

As I was saying, was it simply because he didn't believe and struck a rock that God did not let him enter? Or because of his poor leadership overall towards the end, and eventual death at the hands of his own people that God didn't let him enter? You can't write a story and have the hero go down by the hands of his own people at the end for being arrogant, can you?

Ahamburger.

Thanks for the link. I have watched half the video and find it incredible. It is full of admitted suppositions, unconfirmed data, and inaccuracies.

In interpreting the OT there are things to be taken into consideration.
It was written by Hebrews for Hebrews. With all the problems associated with that.
The Pentateuch was written centuries after the events, from handed down history.
Much of it contains 'commandments', health regulations etc that were in operation in civilisations before Israel came into being.
Only the 2 commandments regarding Monotheism were 'new', the rest in operation in earlier codes (of Hammurabi, Ur-Nammu and others).

Some interpretation can come from knowing the customs, civilisations and history of the time.

Apart from obvious meaning, much is down to personal understanding and study.

We have no evidence. We have the biblical account and that is all. The rest is down to personal interpretation.

Indeed, as you will know, some authorities doubt the presence of the Hebrews in Egypt, and the Exodus altogether.

This does not include places. We now have evidence of places like Ur, Nineveh etc mentioned, thanks to excavations.


After the Pentateuch we do have some archaeological
evidence proving people, events and places recorded in the rest of the Oral Torah.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Thanks for the link. I have watched half the video and find it incredible. It is full of admitted suppositions, unconfirmed data, and inaccuracies.

I see it as a different interpretation. We know that Hebrews existed in Israel BC from archeology of the area. We know MT. Sinai exists and that Canaan existed is some form and they were a great force. So for the Israelites to take them down they would have had to have an army. It even talks about how Joshua had to conquer the land of Cananna in the Book of Joshua.

I don't dispute that the OT was handed down through stories mostly. However, we do know that JC existed and that he was Jewish, from the Hellenistic(Greek) school of teaching that included John the Baptists. Now that is where the rest of the info in this thread comes into play.

[trevorw2539]

Jul 19, 2012 2:45:18 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Thanks for the link. I have watched half the video and find it incredible. It is full of admitted suppositions, unconfirmed data, and inaccuracies.

I see it as a different interpretation. We know that Hebrews existed in Israel BC from archeology of the area. We know MT. Sinai exists and that Canaan existed is some form and they were a great force. So for the Israelites to take them down they would have had to have an army. It even talks about how Joshua had to conquer the land of Cananna in the Book of Joshua.

I don't dispute that the OT was handed down through stories mostly. However, we do know that JC existed and that he was Jewish, from the Hellenistic(Greek) school of teaching that included John the Baptists. Now that is where the rest of the info in this thread comes into play.

As long as you accept it as one man's interpretation there's no problem. To put it forward as THE interpretation would be simply wrong. There is little to suggest, or facts to prove, the truth of the interpretation.

'Canaan' did not exist as a great force. It was a made up of several nations and they seldom united against Israel. Occasionally 2 nations would join together, but only very occasionally. They were conquered one by one.
Another thing to remember is that many of these conquests of Joshua were against 'city states'. Cities who had a 'king' and ruled a small area round the city. ie Jericho. This system was still in place outside of Israel, in the time of David.

I don't dispute the geography. We have references to many places in other writings, earlier than the Hebrews.

By the way, I have not referred to the NT or its authenticity.

Have to go out. Continue later