Exodus: God Blessed America?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

As long as you accept it as one man's interpretation there's no problem. To put it forward as THE interpretation would be simply wrong. There is little to suggest, or facts to prove, the truth of the interpretation.

I would say it makes more sense then a bunch of people roamed the desert and just ended up in Israel.

The facts are there with the Tower of light. Alexander the great did use the same tactic, but instead of fleeing, the Greeks attacked the Egyptians.

You pointed out that the See of Reeds and the Red Sea were mixed up, they talk about that exact point in their assumption. A group of people fleeing during low tide and then having the tide wash the army away makes more sense then Moses splitting the sea.

You have also pointed out the Canaan was a bunch of city states, the Israelites aren't going to walk in there like Jedi and be like "This is our land now, you never wanted to live here. OUR GOD says we should have this land".

There are lots of accounts of roaming militias all throughout history, I would bet that at this time in history there would have been roaming militias in that area. Especially when you consider that there are roaming militias currently in that part of the world.

'Canaan' did not exist as a great force. It was a made up of several nations and they seldom united against Israel. Occasionally 2 nations would join together, but only very occasionally. They were conquered one by one.
Another thing to remember is that many of these conquests of Joshua were against 'city states'. Cities who had a 'king' and ruled a small area round the city. ie Jericho. This system was still in place outside of Israel, in the time of David.

For Moses and the Israelites to push their way into this land and take over an area would have required force in this situation. The fact that we have accounts of the area before Israel and Judea proves that at some point a new people pushed their way in and they would have had to be the followers of Yahweh.

We call this area Syria, ect, ect.. However, it's interesting to to note that even though the bible is the only book that still talks about the land of Canaan, there is nomenclature from that area that mentions a Kanana. So it's very possible the people of that time called that area Kanan(Canaan)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

In the north, Lebanon, bordered by the Litani river to the watershed of the Orontes river, was known by the Egyptians as upper Retenu.[6] Between Lebanon and Syria, Canaan was bordered to the North by Hazor, Aram and Kadesh, which all included the lands of the Semitic Amorites. In Egyptian campaign accounts, the term Djahi was used to refer to the watershed of the Jordan river. Many earlier Egyptian sources also mention numerous military campaigns conducted in Ka-na-na, just inside Asia[1]....

(From under the pic on the side)

Canaanites as they were portrayed in the Ancient Egyptian "Book of Gates", dated to the 13th Century BC.

[trevorw2539]

Ahamburger. Thanks for your reply.

I will comment without posting your comments to save space.

I do not say that the people just roamed the desert. According to the Bible from Sinai on they had a purpose and were led. They had a formation in which each tribe took its place and carried specific items of the Temple and other goods. When they settled for a period they camped in a particular way, forming a square round the tribe of Levi and the Tabernacle.

I haven't mentioned Moses splitting the 'sea', and I would not comment on which route, which sea, etc they took. No-one knows. As 'they' say, it is all assumption.

Again I have indicated that I accept they were armed, as per the Bible. How ready and prepared (in the sense of battle experience) to fight is another matter. They were not ready to take on the 'city' states of Philistia so God sent them another way.

Taking the only source we have, the Bible, we see that the Israelites were 'slaves'. Hardly likely to have weapons or weapon training.

It is obvious that the Hebrews had not embraced Egyptian life or there would not be the desire to leave. To arm and train them the Egyptians would be endangering themselves from within. Learnt early in history was the lesson that if you arm unwilling conscripts you risk them turning against you. The Romans and other nations had a policy of conscription from conquered nations, but then sent them away from their own country to another part of the Empire to serve.

Of course we can assume many things and build fantasies from our imagination or we can take a crumb and make a loaf out of it. What shaped loaf that crumb came from we don't know, so what shaped loaf we end up with may be different to the original.

Roaming militias. Nomadic tribes exist and always have existed. That they had the means of defence, as in 'militia', and they often used them to obtain superiority or property, is not disputed. My understanding of 'militia' is armed members taken from a population for use in specific times. Not a regular army. Most nomadic tribes moved to trade (as Kenites did), or find fresh pasture for their animals.
As for modern 'militias' I don't know your meaning.

Ahamburger Quote. The fact that we have accounts of the area before Israel and Judea proves that at some point a new people pushed their way in and they would have had to be the followers of Yahweh.

Or would that be the Habiru, Hittites - or the Egyptians themselves who, at one time, 'shared' Canaan with the Hittites. Egypt south, Hittites north.

Canaan was always being overrun. It was the main route between Asia Minor and Egypt and had fertile lands.
Going back in history Mesopotamia was ruled by (major rulers): Sumerians, Akkadians, neo-Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians,Hittites, Babylonians again, Mitanni, Assyrians again, Babylonians again, Assyrians again, Babylonians again and for a change the Persians, Greeks and the Romans. Though for a short time the Hasmoneans had a small kingdom in Palestine. Most of the above included 'Canaan' in their conquests.

The Bible is our only source of the Exodus. Anything else is purely down to personal interpretation.

[trevorw2539]

Ahamburger. The facts are there with the Tower of light. Alexander the great did use the same tactic, but instead of fleeing, the Greeks attacked the Egyptians.
?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

NP Trevor. From what I can tell we are basically at the same place with the story of Exodus. My assumption would have been that there were pissed off folk in Egypt that were making money, they would have funded the original Exodus that Moses would have planned.

The militias that roam around in that area today are the ones carrying out a Jihad or just plain terrorizing people. Look at Mali, Somalia, ect.

The Tower of Light, that is how armies light up their sites at night, fire/smoke signals have been around since BC. The Persians, sorry not the Egyptians, were expecting a night attack and Alexander waiting until the morning to attack.

militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswarsto1000/p/Wars-Of-Alexander-The-Great-Battle-Of-Gaugamela.htm

The whole point with the first post was to get to where we are right now honestly. The fact is that Moses leading that Israelites out of Egypt would have been a battle. Something like this would have had to happen because Judaism stated somewhere and grew. We know for a fact that JC was Jewish so we know it started BC. What's interesting is how the Exodus relates into all of the rest of the information that I have presented that we have a much better account of.

Good Sabbath to you.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I know it's been a long time since I've posted to this thread, so I will quickly recap. The OP was about a History program that theorized the Exodus was more of a battle, than a group of people wandering through the desert.

I touched on how the founding fathers seen the revolution of the late 1700's as their Exodus. How the founder of the Illminati in Bravaria believed what he, the masons, and the other various secret societies of learning and the arts were doing was bringing on a world that was true to the word of Jesus of Nazareth.

I also went into detail that the socioeconomic structure that we know today started during the time known as Pax Roma(the exact period in time that Jesus walked this Earth). That a Tyrant named Augusts is given credit for installing this structure through the Empire, and how the assumption is clearly laughable considering the fact he was a brutal tyrant, with dictatorial aspirations.

Once again just to recap, the fact is it's physically impossible that Augusts installed the "love not war" socioeconomic structure in Rome. First of all, he wasn't responsible for starting the war that brought on the subsequent division necessary to have it be the one and only world economic structure. Secondly, again, it was the true word of Jesus of Nazareth that the founding fathers based this new world upon, not Augusts.

So the question is, did God Bless America?

Consider the facts: since the USA was created empires and dictatorships around the globe have crumbled. Slavery, which has existed for our entire existence, is slowly being eradicated. Most importantly however, if it were not for the USA, Israel would not exist today and more than likely the Jewish people would have been eradicated. Why is Israel the most important point? Like ktunes said on the first page of this thread, it's about Abraham and God.  I came across this website the other day that I will post below, it goes in depth into Jewish scripture and prophecies, it just really explains what part the messiah plays in Gods kingdom on earth; aka the Messianic age....

14 FACTS THAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISRAEL

The facts are clear to me; because of the USA's key part in Hebrew scripture, God has Blessed her and her people.

[Virgil Showlion]

Most importantly however, if it were not for the USA, Israel would not exist today and more than likely the Jewish people would have been eradicated. Why is Israel the most important point?

Bear in mind that Israel of the Bible refers to the twelve tribes descended from Jacob. The modern-day nation of Israel comprises mostly the Jews, descendants of Judah, only one of the twelve.

And in fact, because the Jews and the Benjaminites split from the other ten tribes of Israel relatively early in the Biblical chronology, "Israel" and "the House of Israel" in most places in the Bible doesn't include Judah. The histories of Judah and Israel are given separately. The two even fought with each other on occasion. Only in a select few places does "Israel" refer to all twelve tribes.

As for the video in the OP, I share many of the same reservations as Trevor. It's an interesting theory, but there's no shortage of interesting, thinly-substantiated theories about ancient history to go around.

I do share your view that America and the British Commonwealth have been tremendously blessed. Those blessings are in fact prophetic, as are the curses pronounced on those nations if they turn away from God's Law.

[sesfw]

I do share your view that America and the British Commonwealth have been tremendously blessed. Those blessings are in fact prophetic, as are the curses pronounced on those nations if they turn away from God's Law.

IMO the blessings we have been given are because we follow the Law of Peace and Love that God taught and sent Jesus to teach.

Peace and compassion for each other is the only way to really live successfully.  Otherwise we are fighting amongst ourselves for existence. 

Very simplistic and naïve I know ....... but ...... I wish.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I understand what you are saying about the tribes in the early days Virgil. Like you said though, there are references to all 12 as "Israel". By the time Judiasm was forced onto the gentiles by early Christians, there was only the one tribe left, as Trevor pointed out in a different discussion. These remaining decedent's of Israel are the tie to Abraham and the covenant.

sesfw, the promise that God gave to Abraham can only be fulfilled by the Messiah. It's not only living by the true values of the Messiah the gives the west it's prosperity, it's our economic structure. This was also given to us by the Messiah, and that is where the other half of the story comes in. Not only did God send JC to preach peace and love, he sent him to do something about it. That is why, even in the NT, there are quotes where JC is talking about war and division, not peace.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

As far as the battle in the OP, even trovor addmitted they would have been armed for battle. That's the point, from Exodus to America to now, it's been a bloody uphill battle for freedom. I will admit Virgil, I was a little to optimistic on a peaceful resolution to this 2000 yr old war. Putin is a maniac! However, think about this my friend. The post war period in NA was a time of economic prosperity and optimism. A world wide post war period, well, that would be the Messianic age.

[Virgil Showlion]

By the time Judiasm was forced onto the gentiles by early Christians, there was only the one tribe left, as Trevor pointed out in a different discussion. These remaining decedent's of Israel are the tie to Abraham and the covenant.

The remaining tribes didn't simply disappear. After being taken into captivity in Assyria, they spread to the far reaches of Europe, forming the basis for many of Europe's modern-day nation states. For example, the Anglo-Saxons (literally 'SCs sons' since the Hebrew has no vowels, meaning 'Isaac's sons'), mainly of the tribe of Ephraim, settled in Britannia. You can trace the Danes, the French, the Spanish, and many others back in similar ways. Even the Scottish. Robert the Bruce refers to his Israelite heritage in the Scottish Declaration of Independence.

The Jews and Benjaminites may be the only tribes that kept their identity after being taken into captivity, but the covenant applies to vastly more than just them. God still knows who's who, of course.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Haha, very true and all good points. Look at how many Jewish folks have immigrated to Israel since it's reincarnation. Tribes assemble!