Death Panels Are Only The Begining

[ugonow]

Open your eyes,people.Sarah Palin is owed an apology from the state run media-----washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2010/12/death-panels-are-just-first-step

[Angel!]

Per my previous postings on the subject - this entire article uses the slippery slope logical fallacy to try to convince us that end-of-life counseling & living wills will somehow lead to death panels where we have to plead for our lives. Ridiculous.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

However, determinations will be in place to decide if treatment options for someone, say in their early 70s provide a cost benefit.
Such as say hip or knee replacement. While not life or death, these decisions will be made by bureaucrats.

[ugonow]

determinations will be in place to decide if treatment options for someone, say in their early 70s provide a cost benefit.
Such as say hip or knee replacement.

These details that are hidden within this monstrocity,such as mandatory access to your savings accounts, your medical records being put on the internet for all to see,and government dictated treatments among many others will not be known to the masses until they come across them.

[Angel!]

Jan 21, 2011 12:49:26 GMT -5 ugonow said:

These details that are hidden within this monstrocity,such as mandatory access to your savings accounts, your medical records being put on the internet for all to see,and government dictated treatments among many others will not be known to the masses until they come across them.

Wow, seriously? Do you actually believe the crap that you are spewing? I suggest you spend some time actually reading the bill rather than believing everything you read on blogs.

[Deleted]

these decisions will be made by bureaucrats.

So, in private insurance companies... who makes these decisions? ... hmmm...

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

So, in private insurance companies... who makes these decisions? ... hmmm...

Insurance companies employ nurses and doctors who review and approve claims, and authorize payments.

[Deleted]

How do I get a seat at the other side of the death panel table?

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Wow, seriously? Do you actually believe the crap that you are spewing? I suggest you spend some time actually reading the bill rather than believing everything you read on blogs.

You mean, blogs like this where many of the posters blindly believe this law will save the country?

[Deleted]

lol... ok... and they LOVE to insure 70 year olds who need hip replacements... we should definately be opting for a full private sector health care solution...

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

and they LOVE to insure 70 year olds who need hip replacements... we should definately be opting for a full private sector health care solution...

70 year olds(and up) are likely on medicare.

[Angel!]

One nice thing about this bill is that it allows the govt to spell out stuff that must be covered by insurance companies. There will be more consistency between insurance plans, so you won't suddenly discover your plan doesn't cover a hospitalization.

Everyone keeps going on about how the bill somehow will keeps people from getting treatment, but don't focus on the fact that this already happens all the time with insurance companies & the bill is actually forcing insurance companies to cover certain standards items.

Ever worked at a place that provided "insurance". Some cheapo plan that call itself insurance, but provides benefits like $50/day towards your hospital bills. This bill will eliminate this "insurance" plans & make it so everyone is eligible for insurance. No more getting denied due to pre-existing conditions or getting a plan that covers everything but your pre-existing conditions.

You keep going on & on about the supposed death panels, but fail to focus on the fact that insurance companies as they exist today are a sort of death panel in themselves. Depending on your circumstances, they don't have to insure you & they don't have to cover all your conditions. Sure you can go to the ER, but that won't do a lot of good if you have a growing brain tumor that needs surgery.

[Deleted]

Yes... because there they at least get care... in the private sector we wouldn't have to worry about 'death panels'... they just wouldn't have insurance... so it wouldn't be a problem... no one would qualify...

Not to mention that paying a doctor to discuss end of life options and living wills, etc. does NOT constitute a 'death panel'... and everything in the OP link was a supposition of what they 'thought' it 'meant' for the future.... no fact... no grounding in reality.

[Angel!]

Jan 21, 2011 13:02:54 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Wow, seriously? Do you actually believe the crap that you are spewing? I suggest you spend some time actually reading the bill rather than believing everything you read on blogs.

You mean, blogs like this where many of the posters blindly believe this law will save the country?

I don't know if you are referring to me, but I don't blindly think this will save the country. I do think it has a lot of legislation in it that is desperately needed & will do a lot of good for people with health problems.

There are some things that I disagree with in the bill, but "death panels" & "mandatory savings account access" or "medical records on the internet for all to see" aren't some of them because these things aren't even in the bill.

[ugonow]

quote]Everyone keeps going on about how the bill somehow will keeps people from getting treatment

[/quote] Actually,I have refuted the notion in the past that the government will dictate what treatments you can have. In government run plans,they dictate what tax payers will pay for.You are free to use your own money to pay for anything else you want. ,just as insurance policies dictate what they will pay for and you are free to pay for anything else you want.[

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Yes... because there they at least get care... in the private sector we wouldn't have to worry about 'death panels'... they just wouldn't have insurance... so it wouldn't be a problem... no one would qualify...

One can always buy insurance. The biggest problem with the health care industry it the federal govt's meddling in it. Now the exact people who have caused the problems, proclaim they have the solutions to fix the very problems they have caused.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

I don't know if you are referring to me, but I don't blindly think this will save the country

Lighten up, will you. The federal govt has yet to run anything efficiently and/or been able to control costs. The fed govt is the problem. Unlimited access to health care, at any time and any cost, is a disaster.

[ugonow]

I agree.We must deregulate the insurance and healthcare industries. They are the only ones that can deliver quality,affordable healthcare to the masses. We have to take the shackles off them and let them be profitable and police themselves in order to deliver it.

[Angel!]

One can always buy insurance.

Not always an option. Insurance through employers doesn't have to cover pre-existing conditions if you have been uninsured for over 63 days. Individual insurance can outright reject you even if you were previously insured or choose not to cover your pre-existing conditions even if you were previously insured.

No private insurance would take someone with MS or diabetes or cancer & pay for the expensive continuing treatment of these conditions.

[ugonow]

The fed govt is the problem.

It's worse than that.The government is the enemy.

[Angel!]

Jan 21, 2011 13:16:27 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Unlimited access to health care, at any time and any cost, is a disaster.

This bill doesn't provide unlimited healthcare, at any time, at any cost. People will still have to pay for their insurance & pay for their portion of the copays & coinsurance.

[ugonow]

Forcing people to buy insurance is unconstitutional. Everyone in the US has healthcare,just go to the ER.When was the last time you had to step over bodies of uninsured people?

[Deleted]

You think without medi programs that elderly people would be able to buy insurance? ... what bottom line oriented public company would insure the people who actually COST money? ... and if they did... do you think those insurance companies wouln't have 'death panels'... they'd say upfront... hey, we won't cover your heart, or your prostate, etc...

[Tennesseer]

Jan 21, 2011 13:25:53 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Forcing people to buy insurance is unconstitutional. Everyone in the US has healthcare,just go to the ER.When was the last time you had to step over bodies of uninsured people?

Tape shows woman dying on waiting room floor

July 01, 2008

Surveillance video shows a woman lying on the hospital floor for almost an hour before anyone helped her.A 49-year-old woman collapsed and died on the floor of a waiting room at a Brooklyn psychiatric hospital and lay there for more than an hour as employees ignored her, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, which on Tuesday released surveillance camera video of the incident.



Esmin Green was involuntarily admitted to the psychiatric emergency department of Kings County Hospital Center on June 18 for what the hospital describes as "agitation and psychosis."

Upon her admission, Green waited nearly 24 hours for treatment, said the civil liberties union, which was among the groups filing suit against the facility last year seeking improved conditions for patients.

articles.cnn.com/2008-07-01/us/waiting.room.death_1_hospital-staff-hospital-employee-kings-county-hospital-center?_s=PM:US

[Angel!]

Jan 21, 2011 13:25:53 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Forcing people to buy insurance is unconstitutional. Everyone in the US has healthcare,just go to the ER.When was the last time you had to step over bodies of uninsured people?

Access to an ER does not equal healthcare. Have a good friend that works in a hospital in the Bronx & she is constantly amazed at the number of people that visit the ER for asthma attacks, most of which would never occur with some basic preventative medicine. But, they don't have insurance so they don't get preventative care. Instead they just call & ambulance & head over to the ER every time they can't breath. That isn't adequate access to healthcare.

[ugonow]

Medicare is another lib wealh redistribution program where one group has their money consfiscated for the benefit of another. It is not my fault you did not save enough for future insurance premiums. I also believe anyone on medicare screaming about Obamacare only make it look like a vendetta against Obama,not a statement over government healthcare.Obama care is a pimple on the butt of the constitution and budget compared to medicare.Medicare is just as unconstitutional and much more costly.

[Angel!]

Medicare is another lib wealh redistribution program where one group has their money consfiscated for the benefit of another.

Not really, medicare eligibility isn't based on your income or financial status. Everyone with an income pays equally into it (even the poor). So, it really isn't a wealth redistribution program at all.

Edited because I realized only SS taxes have the cutoff for high income, but my point remains the same since qualifications for the programs isn't based on your financial status.

[Shirina]

Medicare is another lib wealh redistribution program where one group has their money consfiscated for the benefit of another.

I really don't care. I really don't. Not only is it immoral to allow people to suffer for the sake of personal profit, wealth is redistributed constantly in an upwards direction. Why not do a cruise around the internet and see how many companies are posting record profits while laying of thousands of workers. Why? Because layoffs increase stock prices, and that makes shareholders happy. In other words, the salaries of those laid off employees have been effectively redistributed to the shareholders.

So ask me again if I care if money is being redistributed so sick and disabled people can get the help they need?

It is not my fault you did not save enough for future insurance premiums.

It's also not my fault that you have no morality or compassion. Didn't your alien leaders teach you that before sending you here?

Medicare is just as unconstitutional and much more costly.

Unconstitutional, eh? Well, hell's bells, let's just get rid of all government assistance, then. I'm sure that would make you happy.

This kind of crap makes me sick to my stomach. It definitely makes me ashamed to be an American.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Not really, medicare eligibility isn't based on your income or financial status. Everyone with an income pays equally into it (even the poor), actually those with high incomes pay a lower % into medicare than those with lower incomes. So, it really isn't a wealth redistribution program at all.

Yes...and no. As one earns more income, they continue to pay. An individual earning $100,000 pays more than someone who makes $30,000. In that respect it can be said that this is a wealth redistribution program.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

I really don't care. I really don't. Not only is it immortal to allow people to suffer for the sake of personal profit, wealth is redistributed constantly in an upwards direction. Why not do a cruise around the internet and see how many companies are posting record profits while laying of thousands of workers. Why? Because layoffs increase stock prices, and that makes shareholders happy. In other words, the salaries of those laid off employees have been effectively redistributed to the shareholders.

Wealth moves in the direction it is earned. Layoffs occur due to downturns in business. This is not any sort of revelation.
Last time I check, slavery has been outlawed in the US.