Death Panels Are Only The Begining

[handyman2]

The biggest crowd at our local hospital on the weekends is drug addicts looking for pain killers for free. Do you think they are going to buy health insurance? No insurance company is going to touch them
If the government wants to save money they could close many of the VA hospitals except those on base and contract to private hospitals for basic services not related to recent war wounds and save a ton of money. My neighbor has to drive 100 miles to the nearest va for his annual checkup.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 21, 2011 20:36:04 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Jan 21, 2011 18:59:29 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

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believe that having 30 million or however many more people on insurance will make the ERs less crowded with emergencies?
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Krickett..Possible in AZ with the large amount of Illegals you say you have there, and i believe , and still there say in 2014 when the health care will be fully up and running...you still may have busy ER's..the illegals aren't covered.
However , for the rest of us, and you too, you will be covered, either paying your fair share if qualified financially or subsidized , either way your covered, have your own private Doctor and use the Emergency room as it is meant for, for emergencies. Check ups, Physicals, follow up care , normal illnesses , you don't have to decided not to get care, or figure if have to go for grand babies for example, sell , hock , figure out where $ coming from, just make a appointment , hang around waiting room as most of us do, and just go and get care and hopefully if something chronic, be seen in follow up and constant monitoring, blood tests and other tests if needed so it is cured or controlled as it should be so you feel better, live better and hopefully live heather and longer.
Tell me the down side of that?

Where are all the doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc going to magically appear to handle 30+ million more people? Making a doctor's appointment will be 12 months or more out...so how will anyone get the tests, treatments, etc to feel better, live better and live healthier longer?

{Tsk, tsk } You are ALLWAYS so negative, my, my..well then we will open our borders to foreign Doctors till our colleges of Medicine catch up, and then just think of the growth opportunity of training all those medical people to treat the 30 Million...like Detroit booming all over again..you have to learn to lighten up, there is all ways a golden pot at the end of the rainbow filled with good things for those who just believe..." Tommorrow, Tommorrow ...come on there , join in .... ;D

[Loopdilou]

What will most likely happen is that our system of giving health care will fundamentally change. Nurse practitioners (who are practically doctors themselves and actually are the only people able to give medical treatment in some small rural communities already) will become much more common and handle a lot more routine care. The same thing will (and SHOULD) happen in the dental industry. If one actually got their teeth cleaned every 6 months (or even more often) by a far cheaper dental hygienist, then dental care wouldn't be as expensive. Specialized doctors will still be heavily sought after, but they won't be as swamped.

I think it sounds like a good plan, personally.

[traelin0]

I have said many times over that the laws of supply and demand with respect to nationalized healthcare can be called, politically incorrectly of course, "death panels". Healthcare is an economic service. There are not enough providers and medical care to service everyone equally. Therefore, there will be "executive decisions" made to determine who gets what. There are even complex statistical analyses that have been performed to determine one's productive ability, given various demographics. It's even what auto insurers do to determine what rates are going to be.

The good thing about Obamacare is that it will hurt the generation which caused most of our ills the worst.

[Loopdilou]

With or without nationalized health care, there are executive decisions. Right now insurance companies (who care only about profits) make them... so you're effed unless you're fabulously wealthy.

[ugonow]

True, I could see how one could say it redistributes wealth. But, it doesn't do it in the way most people would mean when talking about redistributing wealth - take from the wealthy & give to the poor (food stamps, welfare, EITC, etc).

Yeah, I agree with you, I was splitting hairs.

I did not say medicare takes from the rich and gives to the poor. Medicare takes from the working or a certain age group and gives to another age group or those not working. Redistribution does not have to mean from the rich to the poor.It is wealth redistribution from one group for the benefit of another. People should save for their retirement,which includes enough to pay for their own premiums.Anyone crying about Obamacare and condoning Medicare is just making a political vendetta against Obama. Medicare is much more costly.

[traelin0]

Jan 22, 2011 1:59:05 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

With or without nationalized health care, there are executive decisions. Right now insurance companies (who care only about profits) make them... so you're effed unless you're fabulously wealthy.

LOL, you have to be kidding me. I am NOT fabulously wealthy and I have never been uninsured, nor has my family. Good grief, the stuff that passes for "fact" on the boards.

[Deleted]

Which is fine traelin, as long as you have a medical problem that the insurance company will pay for... but if they deny you a test, or a procedure... you can access it only if you can pay for it... exactly the process of supposed 'death panels' ... the point is that someone is already making decisions about what they will and will not cover... right now its the FOR PROFIT corporation... i fail to see how that is in any way 'better'... ?

And not everyone has insurance all the time... fewer and fewer employers offer it every year... and then luck of the pre-existing condition enters the picture...

[traelin0]

I have NEVER not had something covered except for one time when I screwed up a claim. I pay a premium for my PPO coverage. If people are having all these problems with medical care, which I seriously doubt because I have literally never met a person in this situation, then perhaps they should improve their skillsets.

I realize that tying insurance to employment is stupid and antiquated, but giving the govt. more control over the system is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. The govt. has caused most of the problems with our system as is. I don't when Americans will finally "get it", but a major reason this country is in full-on, rapid decline is the socialism that is collapsing.

[Deleted]

I think giving insurance companies more control over health care is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face... I'd prefer MY government, of which i am a part, and which i actively communicate with an exert influence over, be the ones to set standards... rather than the FOR PROFIT entities...

[traelin0]

Jan 22, 2011 11:47:38 GMT -5 oped said:

I think giving insurance companies more control over health care is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face... I'd prefer MY government, of which i am a part, and which i actively communicate with an exert influence over, be the ones to set standards... rather than the FOR PROFIT entities...

The funny thing is, support of Obamacare gave the biggest of the big insurers more control over healthcare. I understand it's hard for most Americans to believe our govt. is corporatist, but hopefully the appt. of Immelt to head Obama's economic advisers will wake more people up. Thank God this nightmare will end sooner rather than later. There is not and has never been a free lunch. One cannot expect to improve one's lot in life by stealing from his neighbor; it is bound to end in one way or another, either by the producers moving abroad or closing up shop entirely. And that is exactly what is happening.