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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 14:05:00 GMT -5
Zib, it's about potential profit margin. Same as any other location decision.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Feb 7, 2012 14:10:00 GMT -5
Everyone doesn't ring up purchases with a modern register. If someone buys food at a farmer's market set up for a few weeks at a Botanical Garden during the Fall Harvest or if a farmer sells produce out the back of his truck a lot of that recordkeeping goes by the board. Yes and no. In order to use food stamps at a farmer's market, they need to have a fancy pants EBT machine. (Also popular with the debit card carrying masses) But no UPC codes to scan, so in that sense, you are right. I've seen a variation of the WIC voucher used at the Farmer's Markets -- Maryland. One gets special vouchers for use at the Farmer's Market (a one time deal for a certain amount of money), I think it is like $15 or $18.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Feb 7, 2012 14:13:34 GMT -5
That is based on the assumption that all those receiving food stamps do not work. A lot do work. They don't make enough after paying for housing and utilities to buy food. No, but I'll bet most have Internet connection, cable and cell phones, at least the ones I know receiving it do. And yes, if you qualify for certain programs, i.e., food stamps, etc., you can get a cell phone with a certain amount of minutes, subsidized internet from Comcast, etc. You can't just assume that they are actually paying for those things.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Feb 7, 2012 14:35:57 GMT -5
..... and the prices are higher for things like bread and milk. Aren't the prices higher for nearly everything in urban centers? Yes, you should see the prices for things at the CVS around the corner from where I work compared to the CVS where I live (Frederick County). It is ridiculous. The one grocery store that I know of that is close (Dupont Circle) is Whole Foods and a Safeway that is also in the same area. But that is the "good" side of town and less than 20 blocks from the K Street Corridor. Even the Whole Foods have a huge prepared foods section ... and I see a lot of people "eating in." An example about proximity -- within a two mile radius from my house, I have 3 grocery stores that I can actually walk to, and have, during Snowmageddon -- Giant Eagle, Weis, Aldi and a Giant until it closed this past May. Five mile radius, I have those three I just named, in addition to Giant, Super Fresh, Walmart, Mom's Organic Market, CostCo, Sam's and this Co-op store I sometimes frequent, where they have grains, etc., in bulk, so I can just get a scoop of something in that I don't have to buy a whole container, in addition to local organic produce, meats, cheese, butter, etc. I've even found an Asian Grocery store .... very small, but it even has fresh vegetables...not a whole lot, but some.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 7, 2012 14:45:42 GMT -5
Maybe I should move to Florida if the law passes and start a black market in baked goods. No need for black market baked goods. This bill wouldn't make them illegal. So you don't think I could make some money selling cookies and cakes coding them as 80/20 ground beef and veggies?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 7, 2012 14:46:55 GMT -5
Carrot cake...
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 7, 2012 15:03:49 GMT -5
I just don't see how you add all these requirements without discouraging small vendors from dealing with foodstamps at all and these vendors are where the better food comes from. All what requirements? The only requirement being discussed in the OP is buying junk food with food stamps. Not sure that's much of a concern for a farmer selling produce.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 7, 2012 15:07:00 GMT -5
Because they have to keep records and submit them so the government can tell they are selling carrots and not cakes. That seems costly for small vendors. They have to do this anyway.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 7, 2012 15:13:36 GMT -5
So you don't think I could make some money selling cookies and cakes coding them as 80/20 ground beef and veggies? Depends on how well you bake. Considering your target customer base would be food stamp recipients, the big unknown is how long you be able to get reimbursed from Uncle Sam. With the speed and efficiency of government, you should be good for a decade or three. The sensationalism of 'Donut Mills' would be a nice change from our usual Pill Mills though.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 7, 2012 15:16:32 GMT -5
Do they have to break it down into exactly what they sold? Just curious. Good question, but I would assume they would. How else would the government can tell they are selling carrots and not toilet paper?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 7, 2012 15:17:13 GMT -5
Be nice if this economy picked up enough so that food stamps were unnecessary entirely. That, we can all agree on.
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gavinsnana
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 7, 2012 15:19:08 GMT -5
Include Alcohol and ciggies too.. And McDonald's, Burger King. after all Michelle Obama is against the big bad Burger joints! ;D
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 7, 2012 15:46:06 GMT -5
One problem with our social safety net is that they don't make it unpleasant enough to prompt many people to get off the arses. Frankly, I have no problem haivng food stamps become as restrictive as WIC. And frankly, we all know that the only reason WIC is that restrictive is because the government didn't have any reason to trust poor folks to buy healthy food.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 7, 2012 15:54:15 GMT -5
One problem with our social safety net is that they don't make it unpleasant enough to prompt many people to get off the arses. Frankly, I have no problem haivng food stamps become as restrictive as WIC. And frankly, we all know that the only reason WIC is that restrictive is because the government didn't have any reason to trust poor folks to buy healthy food. Nice opinion but, wrong interpertation of the data. It is restrictive because it is designed to provide the needed caloric intake and "vitamins" that the designated foods provide. Beans, rice, fruits (banana's and apples mostly), milk (the most expensive item besides baby formula), breads and peanut butter are great sources of protiens for creating that full filling on smaller actual amounts of food. I believe they still use this same regimine on recruits in basic who have weight challenges.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 7, 2012 16:00:13 GMT -5
Shouldn't food stamps have the same goal - necessary caloric intake and vital nutritional value to people who can not afford it.
But instead, we offer gobs of empty calories in the name of freedom (at the taxpayer's expense.)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2012 16:03:47 GMT -5
How about the prices are so high because of the shoplifting and other related crimes in bad areas? Try to even get employees to work there. They either steal or would quit because of the danger working there. I know a branch in a bad area of town where the employees will quit rather than go there to work. That's when you know the company wants to get rid of you, when they send you there. Transfer to hell. I'm sorry the bad areas have trouble getting decent stores but whose fault is that?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 7, 2012 16:41:12 GMT -5
Or we could have so much administrative paperwork that people would get less food, good or bad, entirely. I would want to know about the expense before signing up for this. Well, since most stores participate in WIC, it would be pretty simple to just have food stamps fall under the same criteria. Having one criteria for food stamps and another for WIC makes things more complicated,
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2012 16:48:06 GMT -5
Isn't WIC just for those who have kids under 5?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 7, 2012 17:13:14 GMT -5
When you talk to anyone who grew up poor in the 'welfare cheese' era, they'll tell you that not having to eat something that disgusting was a huge motivator for wanting to better themselves. Sometimes, things that cost more in the short run cost less in the long run.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 7, 2012 17:16:42 GMT -5
I liked the big blocks of government cheese when I was a kid. I've had conversations with my siblings about how you just can't find anything that tastes quite like it anywhere anymore. It's what I grew up on. To me that's what a grilled cheese sandwich is supposed to taste like. Everything else is alright, but not quite the same thing.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 7, 2012 17:39:12 GMT -5
The boxed powdered milk over breakfast cereal was not so hot!
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 7, 2012 18:15:24 GMT -5
You know, when we're talking about forcing Catholic hospitals to do elective abortions and Catholic adoption agencies to adopt out to gay couples, most of the left leaning folks on this board say "You take the King's shilling, you do the king's bidding", but when we talk about having any kind of restrictions on what folks buying food on the government's dime, the same people say the government shouldn't restrict what these folks buy with the government's money. Curious isn't it? Actually, I am a liberal. I think the food stamp program should be regulated. I don't think you should be able to buy soda and a whole lotta other crap with food stamps or ebt cards.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 7, 2012 19:03:42 GMT -5
"So far as I know, you can't buy soda etc. with them now."
Yes, you can.
There are also places like sub shops that sell deli meat where you can use your EBT card to by ready made subs to order. You shouldn't be able to do that, but the small mom and pop stores have gamed the system.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Feb 7, 2012 20:00:31 GMT -5
"So far as I know, you can't buy soda etc. with them now." Yes, you can. There are also places like sub shops that sell deli meat where you can use your EBT card to by ready made subs to order. You shouldn't be able to do that, but the small mom and pop stores have gamed the system. You sure can. You can also buy kool aid and anything edible. No matter how un-nutritious it is.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 7, 2012 20:24:50 GMT -5
You know, when we're talking about forcing Catholic hospitals to do elective abortions and Catholic adoption agencies to adopt out to gay couples, most of the left leaning folks on this board say "You take the King's shilling, you do the king's bidding", but when we talk about having any kind of restrictions on what folks buying food on the government's dime, the same people say the government shouldn't restrict what these folks buy with the government's money. Curious isn't it? There was a great Daily Show story on drug testing welfare recipients and how that program saved Florida negative $200,000. Realistically, I think that is how this would go. It is a nice idea to keep people from eating junk, but I don't think there is a cost effective way to do it - so this would be a high cost, low benefit way to erode our libertarian values. The math just doesn't work for me. Truthfully, I don't think it would cost that much compare to the amount of fraud, waste, medical bills it would save. I have always been a strong supporter of choice. People have the right to make choices, even if they are not good ones. However, these EBT cards are loaded with tax dollars and there is almost no oversight. When we give these entitlements to folks who present themselves as needy, and they qualify for the assistance, there are expectations. I believe that many folks abide by those expectations and feed their family with proper food and use a budget to make sure their benefit lasts them the month. Unfortunately there is a segment of the population that abuses this assistance and it is a way of life. "Joe" ( fictitious name") lives on public assistance. He had a psychotic break at the age of 22 while trying to go to college. He spent one year at a state mental facility, got better, and went into the community with all the supports he needed to put his life back together. Except he didn't really do that. He was able to get Social Security disability. Not a lot, because he didn't have much of a work history, but paired with the apartment he gets for about $120.00 a month through a subsidized unit, the $180.00 in food stamp benefit each month, the free masshealth insurance which covers all of his medications save for about 10 bucks a month, the food pantry access, the clubhouse which provides him with clothing, cheap breakfast ,lunch and dinner when he wants it at a buck a meal, the nearly free transit pass, the free para transit rides to all of his Dr's appointments and the 2 dollar each way road runner services. Joe is able to smoke cigarettes, since the bodega down the street will convert his EBT funds. What food stamp benefit "joe" has left, he goes to the larger grocery store, spends the remainder on cases of soda. Probably 15 to 18 cases. Joe also gets his apartment painted yearly before the HUD and DMH inspections take place, as well as any furniture he needs replaced from him and his friends abusing the stuff. Oh, I fogot to add, he also gets a homemaker once a week to help him clean the place, except he doesn't help. So, on your dime and mine, Joe is a smoker, drinks full calorie soda, we pay to haul his overweight ass around because he's got diabetes from obesity and we also pay for his diabetes meds. He has a housekeeper to do his laundry and once a week cleaning. "Joe" is a happy camper on us. "Joe" also has a whole bunch of friends just like him. I have absolutely no problem supporting those in need with my tax dollars. I do however have a huge problem with the folks like "joe" who will ultimately be the ones responsible for the heavy wave of regulation needed to the EBT program to insure that it will be there for folks who really need it and don't abuse it.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 7, 2012 21:24:42 GMT -5
Well if their plan is to eliminate sugar in their diet they will have to rule out a lot of food stuffs. Many foods have sugar in them including bread. things are getting crazy arn't they?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 8, 2012 2:24:50 GMT -5
I've always wondered why we have both food stamps and WIC too. Why not one program? WIC actually signs a contract with certain food manufacturers. Baby formula is a big one. It changes every so many years, but a contract bid is put out to the producers, and usually whoever offers the best rebate back to the state wins the contract. In Indiana, last year Gerber won the contract, knocking Enfamil out of the program. I believe the cereal manufacturers do the same thing, although the Wic program demands a higher nutritional content in the cereals, ie, whole grain, no sugar, etc. Wic vouchers used to not specify specific gallon milk. It used to be "cheapest available milk" and did not matter whether it was whole, skim, or 2%. Now whole milk is not allowed on some vouchers. Too fat for most children of a certain age. I believe the younger children's vouchers still allow whole milk Wic vouchers are very strict on what can be bought. Wic has also slowed down the cheese allotments and are switching to five or ten dollar "produce vouchers" also. Food stamps, the sky is the limit, as much fat, sugar and preservatives as you can bare to devour. Keep the masses happy, you know.....
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 8, 2012 2:30:21 GMT -5
"So far as I know, you can't buy soda etc. with them now." Yes, you can. There are also places like sub shops that sell deli meat where you can use your EBT card to by ready made subs to order. You shouldn't be able to do that, but the small mom and pop stores have gamed the system. Food stamps also permit the purchases of vegetable garden seeds (for planting a garden) as well as believe it or not, Jack o Lanterns at Halloween. I always thought it was supposed to be the "pie pumpkins", but alas the last couple of years, I have been behind person(s) paying with the ebt card.....a cashier once told me, the store cannot be sure they will not cook the big pumpkin into a pie......
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