Helping out a friend

[ca]

Hey all, I haven't posted on this board yet but could use some the old YM advice.

I have a friend who has had a rough life. He lived across the street from me when we were kids, and we became close friends because no other kids aside from our siblings lived in walking distance. His mother passed away before I met him, and his stepmother was borderline abusive (for example, she cut out the faces of his mother in old photos and treated him poorly compared to her own children). His father got cancer, and also died, leaving him with the stepmother.

My family took him in for about a year while we were in highschool until he could move in with his mother's sister, and my family moved away but we stayed in touch over the last 15 years or so since highschool.

Anyway, cut to now, I'm pretty succesful but this guy who I love like a brother is down and out. He never finished university and has worked retail and other minimum wage jobs ever since. He is now living in a long term hotel (has been since last summer) in the Carolinas and on unemployment. I read books like "Nickel and Dimed" and others on the working poor and I feel like I'm reading about him.

He doesn't tend to hold jobs because of his attitude towards "authority", although he is quite bright he's never focused. I feel like he should have a job he can do without constant supervision because he cannot handle being watched.

I just don't know what I can do to help him out, or if I should at all. His laptop broke and he has no money for a new one, and it was a primary source of job hunting and entertainment for him. I feel like buying him a new one to help him out but I don't want to take away his pride. I don't know that it's my place. His aunt has been diagnosed with dementia now and has no money to help him out, and he has no siblings or family left.

I hope he is getting job counseling down there (is it mandatory for unemployment checks to be getting job counselling in the long term?).

Anyway, thanks for reading. Any opinions or advice welcomed.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I feel like he should have a job he can do without constant supervision because he cannot handle being watched.

My brother claims to have "authority problems' but what it really translates to is "I haven't grown up past the age of 2 and I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do."

[Gardening Grandma]

I wish I could say something hopeful, but it's unlikely that he's getting any kind of job counseling. The states are all having severe finanical crunches and those kinds of programs (if they exist) are among the first to be cut.
How old is your friend? How often do you have contact with him? Does he call or email? Do you have rapport? Sometimes all one can do is offer moral support (and please don't discount the value of that)

[ca]

I agree with ya dramaqueen, no arguments there. I honestly think he has some mental health issues that are undiagnosed and untreated, but it could just be he needs to suck it up and better himself. To read Nickel and Dimed tho, she makes a good case that these people sometimes are unable even with a great attitude and work ethic to pull themselves up without help.

He and I grew up so upper middle class in Westchester, now I can't believe he is going without medical and dental check ups and living in a motel. There but for fortune go I...

[The J]

Tough love would say that he made his bed and now he should sleep in it. But it can be difficult. You know better than us what he will and won't accept, due to his pride, and what you feel comfortable doing. Personally, I'd offer a sympathetic ear, but I'm not sure how much help I'd give -- this isn't a temporary problem caused by catastrophe, but a long-term pattern that he seems to have little incentive to break. Lots of people have issues with authority. You suck it up because that's what you have to do in life sometimes.

[ca]

Jan 18, 2011 12:01:04 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

I wish I could say something hopeful, but it's unlikely that he's getting any kind of job counseling. The states are all having severe finanical crunches and those kinds of programs (if they exist) are among the first to be cut.
How old is your friend? How often do you have contact with him? Does he call or email? Do you have rapport? Sometimes all one can do is offer moral support (and please don't discount the value of that)

He's 33 now, and I haven't contacted him in a few months until yesterday and I found out that he's now unemployed again and sounding very down. I know I cheer him up and give him hope when we talk, I get a lot out of it to because we had a lot of fun happy times as kids together and I love to reminisce.

Sad they would cut job counseling when there is a recession, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Thanks for the replies guys.

[zibazinski]

Just be careful not to go beyond the conversation stage. Don't buy or gift him anything or offer your home as a temp place to crash or even find him a job. There ARE jobs, he just doesn't want one. It's a tough life out there but there are options for him but none that he chooses to do. You can't "fix" that.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've read Nickled and Dimed too and there is one key difference in them and him: they are WORKING.

They don't get paid a lot but they are at least trying. Your friend isn't even trying, I really doubt he was doing actual job hunting with his laptop, more likely doing the minimum he has to do to keep his check coming in.

I agree with J it sounds like it's a long term habit he sees no interest in breaking. People who have "authority" problems have either gotten themselves booted out of enough jobs they are now blacklisted or always find some reason why they cannot work for "the man".

If he were ambitious he could start his own business if he has that much of an issue working regular joe jobs, but instead he is living in a hotel playing on his laptop. I understand not everyone is cut out to run their own business, but given what you are posted it's unlikely he's ever going to find a job where he isn't going to be faced with "authority".

I would lend an ear within reason because I can only take so much "poor me" before I snap. I wouldn't be buying him anything and I would not be giving him any money because that could backfire in my face and I'd end up being his "provider", which is a very hard role to get out of.

[ca]

Thanks guys again for your responses. I do feel a bit guilty when I talk to him about my life, given where we both are and how wee were very alike back in gradeschool.

I was hoping in job counseling (if he were in it) they could find him a job without much supervision, I don't think he is actually lazy--I've seen him do hard work, he just gets such attitude towards anyone he perceives as telling him what to do. Like you all say, it's his own doing, but to be fair he's had a rough go of life and probably should be on medication or in therapy but has never gotten any.

Anyway, you all make good sense in saying not to give him money or shelter (I live in Canada so can't offer him a place) to become his provider, he should be his own provider and has to learn that. I was thinking the laptop would be okay because it would help him look for work and I can't imagine being cut off from the world like that (I'm so plugged into facebook for example)...but I think I do agree with you guys.

(Also, he doesn't really whine or anything like say "poor me", he's too proud for that, but apparently not too proud to take unemployment.)

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've seen him do hard work, he just gets such attitude towards anyone he perceives as telling him what to do

He is an adult not a two year old. He knows by now what having a job requires of him and he's still finding himself unemployed.

If he isn't seeing the pattern and adjusting his attitude so he can get and keep a job, then there is nothing you can say or do for him that will help.

but to be fair he's had a rough go of life and probably should be on medication or in therapy but has never gotten any.

To be fair I know there is a lot that goes into mental illness, but at the same time your friend is an ADULT and eventually things become crutches and excuses we use to not change things.

IMO there is only so long you can blame a "rough life" for your situation before it becomes an excuse to never improve.

[thyme4change]

Have you sat and talked with him about working. If you can be creative, you might be able to help him figure out something he could get excited about.

I remember talking with a guy - he was living with his mom, and she would get him up every morning to go out as a daylaborer, because she thought he was lazy. He insisted he was a night owl, and getting up at 6 am was just "not him." I suggested he search for a bartending gig. He was young and decent looking and liked the night life. It seemed to fit. He bounced around at several bars, but eventually got on at a more "nightclub" type place and made really decent money. I'm no career counselor - but for some reason, no one ever thought to have this kid turn his hobby into his job.

[whoisjohngalt]

I am ALL about hard work and personal responsibility and such, but some people just can't handle life. Doesn't matter how smart or capable they are. They just can't. Some people can't get over their past.

How much can you donate to his cause?? The reason I am asking is bc may be it would be helpful for him to talk to someone. This whole "problem with authority" thins is the biggest BS I've heard. But there might be other issues that he is not dealing with may bc he is not aware of them or doesn't know how. May be talking to a shrink or something can help.

Giving him stuff won't accomplish anything except make you poorer and leaving him at the exactly same place he was before.

Lena

[ca]

I don't think he'd go to a shrink, but it would be nice. You guys all make sense, again thanks. I'll see if I can help him with his resume and look online for suitable jobs (any links for good job sites in Greensboro?) and give him all the moral support I can. But no laptop or cash donations!

[zibazinski]

He can use a computer in the library and there ARE jobs out there but you actually have to show up to work and (gasp-horrors) someone will probably tell you how they want the job done. You can't FIX his attitude, only he can. If he gets hungry enough, perhaps that will change his attitude.

[thyme4change]

Would he consider something like long-distance truck driving? I know there are pre-reqs to that, and I know that the industry is more competitive than it use to be, but if he doesn't have a wife/kids/family, etc, and he likes to be in charge of his own self - nothing more self-sustaining than being alone on the road. Sure, there is a schedule that he would have to abide by - but if it is for him, he might have a nice little life going on.

Another type of thing is if he could get himself started on some type of business. I tell the story often about the guy I met who installed windsheilds. He worked with a company that took the order and kept the glass on inventory, but they had 3rd party guys who would come out to the customer's home or work, and change out the windows. This guy told me that he was in with 2 different glass companies and he made close to $100k per year - and that was about 10 years back. He had to do some sucking up, and he had to talk to people, and he had to own his own tools and his own truck - but he thought he had the greatest life ever. Another guy I talked to that felt he had freedom was a guy who had a pest control company. I think that was a franchise. These types of jobs all have barriers to entry - but might be more attractive than being hired meat.

[whoisjohngalt]

CA,
the problem is that if he "has an issue with authority" I can't imagine him doing well, no matter what job or business he does. If it won't be this boss, it will be a different one and if not a boss, it will be a customer, etc etc.

May be he truly needs to hit rock bottom to go up?

Lena

[ca]

Lena - I keep thinking he IS at rock bottom, given how we both grew up solidly upper middle class in Westchester...I would feel rock bottom in his shoes, but maybe as Zibazinski says he will have to go hungry before this happens. Unemployment will run out and he'll have to take foodstamps and welfare cheques, maybe that will do it.

I don't think he would be successful at running his own business, and the start up costs would probably prohibit that in any case; I'm sure his credit is ruined with unpaid student loan debts.

He's also had a problem before that sent him into rehab (alcohol) and I think he has a gambling problem too. *sigh* I read what I am typing and it really does seem like a lost cause!

[whoisjohngalt]

So here is story of someone who "I" thought hit rock bottom.

A guy, lost his computer job around 2000, was in his early 50's (college educated, MIT grad school educated, etc) but... couldn't find another job - had some "quirks" about him. So, continued living on cc's, his family completely gave up on him, he only had my parents and another couple who would give him $$$ for medicine and some food. So, at some point he got evicted, he just left his apartment with NOTHING on him, but his clothes. This other couple that was helping him found him in McDonalds, just sitting there. They took him to homeless shelter where he lived for 4 yrs!!!! He was thriving there. Yep, he would "write" his thoughts and sermons, and whatever else. No one expected him to get a job (I don't know why) Then, somehow, either bc of his age or "mental" condition, he got some kind of govt assistance and now living in Sect 8 housing, getting check every month and doing "well".

I think if that couple didn't find him at McDonals, he would be dead by now. I don't think he would do ANYTHING to help himself. Some people are just a bit "out" there. I am hoping your friend is not like that and can pull through. Good luck!!

Lena

[phil5185]

I feel like he should have a job he can do without constant supervision because he cannot handle being watched.

As I was reading thru the posts, I had the same thought as Thyme4change - ie, trucker.
When I drove an 18-wheeler, there were times I didn't did see or hear from supervision for over a week. You pick your hours, drive by, drive by night, just so you get there on schedule. Dress anyway you want to, shave or not, etc.

[zibazinski]

Except SOMEONE in authority is going to teach him to drive the big truck.

[ca]

He grew up in NYC area (moved there after Westchester) and never learned to drive, sadly! The trucking thing would be ideal I think for him too...I don't know if truckers will take someone who just got their licence for the first time in their 30s? Maybe something to consider.

[thyme4change]

I think the alcoholic thing is worse than the new to driving thing. But, who knows - if he is sober and there is some type of schooling he can go through. But, as zib points out, this is going to have to be something he wants bad enough that he will put up with the training period. He has to be able to keep the long term goal in mind.

[Frappuccino]

I hope he gets counseling. His losses early in life probably really messed him up. He needs to change his "problem with authority" attitude before he will ever successfully keep a job, and maybe counseling will help with that. Please don't try to rescue him, too many people get hurt doing that.

[stantonjane]

For the history you have with him, i would help a bit. Can you afford a used laptop to send him, with an excuse you no longer needed it and want to email him. We dont know that he doesnt want to turn his life around, and a computer can help. Maybe his next job will be from craigslist. It sounds too soon to write him off.

[zibazinski]

Talk about just general things with him and don't get involved listening to his problems. They are self induced. Lots of people have lousy childhoods but they can and do rise above it. You are a good person which is why you are still involved in his life but you can imagine that others have let him go and for very good reasons.

[ca]

Thanks for more responses guys. I am torn, the advice here is kinda saying both things. I can afford to send him a used laptop, it wouldn't dent my monthly budget too much and the purchase would probably bring me a great amount of happiness (selfish I know), I would just worry about being a rescuer/enabler/etc.

@rebeccca - I totally agree with you. His problem with authority is all to do with his "evil" stepmother from his childhood, and I'm sure counselling would help him recognize this and not to extrapolate that to all authority figures in his life or he'll never hold a job.

@ziba - it's hard to turn off listening to his problems, even if they are self induced--they are self induced because of problems from his childhood that were not his fault at all, and it's hard to rise above a horrible childhood even though some people are just plain resiliant enough to do that. But I greatly appreciate your take on this, you're likely right.

[zibazinski]

He has to want to change and he doesn't. You can't FIX that.

[Firebird]

CA-- I haven't read all the responses yet but I know EXACTLY what you mean because I have a similar friend/sibling in my life. If your relationship with this guy is anything like mine with my friend, then a laptop would be an extremely generous gift, and very much appreciated by him. I don't think it counts as charity if it's your quasi-family giving it to you.

(Plus, as I said, your friend sounds like mine-- and if that's true, he's likely a bit of a mooch anyway. No offense intended, just reading between the lines of your OP and going from my own experience. I don't mean the term in a bad way.)

However-- can't stress this enough-- DO NOT let this guy sucker you into giving him money or inviting him to live with you "until he gets on his feet." Those things will end badly. Ask me how I know.

Be supportive, gently steer him toward jobs that you come across which might be suitable, etc. Only you know exactly where the line is in your particular relationship (and personally, I don't think a laptop is out of line if you can afford it-- I think that's really nice). I would strongly suggest that you draw the line before actual money is involved, though.

[Firebird]

Also, the other posters make good points about laziness, standing on own two feet, making excuses, etc. The reason I say that a laptop is okay with me (IF you can afford it, and I'm not talking about top of the line, maybe $500 tops) is because it really is pretty difficult to get a job in this day and age without regular access to a computer. Yes, I know-- you can always go to the library. Well, if he doesn't drive or live within walking distance of one, that's not going to happen-- and besides, it's best not to put some personal information on a public computer.

Sure, he might NOT use it for job hunting-- but that kind of thing is out of your control. I have zero sympathy for people who can't get their life together because of an unaddressed mental health issue or simple laziness. Those things can be fixed, and NEED to be fixed in order to live a functional adult life.

By buying him a laptop, you are throwing him a line. It's an opportunity. If he doesn't take it, then he doesn't take it. That's his loss. At least you tried. BUT if he's smart and does take it... then great. Either way, it's not on you whether he gets his life together. You're simply giving him an option.

[zibazinski]

I'm just worried that in doing that, the OP opens himself up to more contact which isn't a good thing really for his kind heart.