I DESERVE IT!

[whoisjohngalt]

Don't you think it is high time Cawi's wife grow up and start acting like, and taking responsibilities like the highly educated adult she supposedly is?

Why would she? Don't you remember all his posts about her parents giving her money any time she would pout and whine?

Seriously, Cawaiu, there is a saying where I come from that I'll try to translate the best way I can "your eyes saw what your hands were buying". You knew EXACTLY who your wife is long before now.

I think whenever one person expects another person to drastically change it's an unfair demand to make way AFTER the fact. She didn't change after you got married. She is the way she has always been. I am sorry to say, but I think you have a long road ahead of you.

Lena

[whoisjohngalt]

Oh, and to answer your question - the only time I used "I deserve it" card is when I want to get take out and my DH gets upset that I want to spend money on that, but not help his parents more. Well, I do deserve it, damn it, so I go and order my fried pickles!!

Lena

[formerexpat]

An "I deserve it" mentality leads solidly middle class people to be poor. Your income is $95k combined at the age of 25. Focus on living modestly, putting as much as you can into your retirement savings and paying down your student loan debt.

You'll appreciate it much more in 30 years when you're living comfortably and able to enjoy the money and spend it on things that are more meaningful than a new $400 coach purse that will need replaced in 2 years or whatever other junk your wife wants to buy that will be in the back of the closet in 2 years.

You might be 25 but your wife is acting like she's 18. She's supposed to be an educated woman and is not acting like one at all right now. Pouting and throwing a tantrum is not adult like, nor is it educated.

You guys better correct this now because there will be a whole new set of items that your wife / child "deserves" when and if you guys bring children into the world. There is a huge marketing and advertising campaign focused on middle class 20/30 somethings...strollers, car seats, baby clothes, toys, etc, etc. I can see it now, your wife will certainly deserve those 7 for all mankind maternity jeans at nearly $200 a pop, huh?

Every $1 you spend today is $30 less dollars that you'll have in 35 years.

[dragonfly7]

"I don't come from a well-to-do family, but yes, my mom pretty much told me that school would be my ticket to a good life with money...After college I struggled quite a bit, and I was floored by the fact that I couldn't get a decent job even though I had a college degree." - DITTO

DH and I are guilty of having our own "I DESERVE IT!" moments. We went to college, got degrees, and got married just like we were supposed to, and yet have had a difficult time securing jobs and have had five layoffs between us in the past five years. My biggest "I DESERVE IT!" moments come on days I'm frustrated about not having a job, or when job advertisements defy my expectation that if an employer is going to require a degree for the position, they should pay for it accordingly. (The part-time Rec Center position paying $8 per hour that required a Kinesiology degree comes to mind.) Also, my family was very poor and very frugal until I was about 14, and that mentality pretty much stuck.

DH has a long-running "I DESERVE IT!" mentality about buying video games, movies, and books whether we have the money or not. However, prior to age 14, his family was fairly comfortable, and there was usually money to buy these things pretty frequently. He ended up financially supporting his family the last two years of high school (parental illness), but the spender mentality remains.

We each know the other's spending mentality, and yet it is the thing we fight about most often because we have not found a perfect balance between them. Someone asked earlier if there was a way to "fix" your wife. I very much doubt it. However, with time and compromise, each of your mentalities could change. When we began dating, my DH was the most fiscally irresponsible person I had ever met (ignored, unpaid bills paired with insatiable entertainment spending), so when we later merged our finances, I was definitely going to be the one in charge of the money. Four years and many big fights later, we're each giving a little in different places. For example, DH has a child he tutors once a week. Even though money has been extremely tight, I started considering that his "allowance." His games and movies are to come out of that money, not our bank account, and I am not allowed to be mad about what he buys with it. Also, DH even learned to (*Gasp!*) price compare the games and will even buy used ones so the tutoring money will go further.

On my end, I find I am willing to give in the most when it comes to food decisions. I think because my family never went out to eat, so I still consider it an Event. I am learning to spend a little more money on convenient lunches (canned soup, chili, frozen meals) at the grocery store so I can feed him for 3-4 days on what he used to spend every day getting a fast food combo meal, and I seem to have established an "as long as there's a good coupon" basis for going out for dinner.

It's not perfect, but we have money tiffs rather than screaming matches now, and the bills get paid on time.

[suziq38]

Suzi, that must have been very very devastating to all of you. I am so, so sorry. I am so happy your son is doing well now.
Thanks, debtheaven.

ETA: I think Suzi's suggestion about getting the MIL to help with the SLs is an EXCELLENT suggestion. Of course her mom no longer "owes" her anything, but it's certainly one of the elephants in the room in your budget. I also say this because I know from past posts that education is extremely important in your families. Frankly her mom is going to be paying for something, it may as well be the SLs.

I think it would work if DW asked her mother for help, LOL.

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2011 18:23:52 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I'm with crone and a few others that say deserve just isn't relevant. Can you afford it?

We can afford it… it just with everything it is not leaving us with much room to save.
Moving to a different, less glamorous apartment will leave us with $500-750 extra a month.

Jan 17, 2011 9:01:21 GMT -5 resolution said:

Is your wife feeling better today now that she has had a little time to think things through? I know it can be hard when your illusions fall away. Her meltdown could either be her coming to the realization that her assumptions were wrong or it could just be the spoiled fit that people are saying it was. I am hoping for your sake that she just realized that a lot of her assumptions were wrong and that it hit her hard.

I know I had a couple moments like that in college when I realized that just being in college didn't give me the direction in life that I had expected. My parents had always told me to go to college, but once I was there I had a few "what now?" moments. I could see if she had been told over and over to do certain things and then realized that they didn't work, it could be a real shock.

As to what we deserve - we deserve things like dignity and the respect shown by fellow human beings. Deserve doesn't really apply to objects, those are things we buy and not deserve.

Yes she is definitely feeling better and as you stated she was just coming to the realization that while she has work hard… it will take some times for her to be able to afford everything she feels that she “deserves”
We talked about it some more and she just feels that everyone around us our age (friends, cousins, families) are able to purchase such nice things, or live in nicer places and how come we can’t do it. As I explained to her she may not have the whole picture, maybe they are in debt to their eyeballs, or have received money from family or just maybe are getting paid more than we are making both combined.

It is still a work in progress and hopefully she will join the good side one day because looking at the numbers in black in white is not doing it. It’s like the posted below said:

Jan 17, 2011 12:00:51 GMT -5 telephus44 said:

cawiau, I think your problem is with your wife's internal beliefs about money. She does believe that because she did all thard hard work and followed the right path that she deserves these things. And even if she logically understands that you don't make enough money to afford them, and that you need to save money, she still has an inner core belief that she did her part of the bargain and she deserves this stuff.

You can see it all the time with other people and situations - I went to a prestigous law school, so I should be making big money, etc. As society, we have these unspoken expectations - do X and you'll get Y. If you work hard and go to school, then you will have material success. If you buy a house, you are building wealth.

I forget which guru called them "money scripts" but they are basically your fundamental, often unconscious beliefs about money. She doesn't need to see a budget written in black and white, or have a carrot dangled over her head, or work in a soup kitchen - she needs to work on changing this belief that because she worked hard and has advanced degrees, she deserves material success. And honestly, I'm not sure how you can make someone do that.

This is my wife to a T. She did everything right, she followed the script… so where is the gold at the end that they promised her? Basically she is feeling like she was cheated out of something.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2011 19:16:39 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think its that they can't afford the apartment. Its just that they can't afford the apartment, and save for a house in the time period which they would like to be in a house (and get a phd, and have babies... etc.)... I think they might just be having different priorities on that list.

Basically this… we are not broke at the end of the day… we could afford to stay in the apartment easily but we will need to do the following
- Reduce 401K contributions
- Postpone buying a house for a long while
- Postpone having kids
-Keep fingers crossed that neither one of us ever lose our jobs

I don’t like the idea of making 93K/year combined and at the end of the year we have nothing to show for it but a mountain of things or asking ourselves where did all the money go.

Jan 17, 2011 16:20:43 GMT -5 Angel! said:

cawiau - Maybe I'm wrong here, but aren't you & your wife maxing out your 401Ks or coming pretty close?

While I agree that the "I deserve it" line of thinking will get you no where & your wife has trouble understanding what you can really afford, do you think that maybe you are pushing her too hard the other way? Just from what I read on your posts, it sounds like you are starting to develop more of a parent / child relationship. She whines & complains & wants to spend - you lecture & insist that you don't spend money. If this is really the pattern that is starting to develop, then you need to get a handle on things because you are working against each other & you will both start to resent the other.

You need to start working together & get on the same page financially. You both will need to compromise for this to work. You can't expect her to change 100% to your way of thinking. The reason I brought up the 401K is because if you are truly maxing it out, then that is awesome for your age, but maybe you should consider contributing a little less & put some of that towards a slightly nicer apt that makes your wife happy. There needs to be a balance that makes you both happy. Ri

We are both contributing 20%... not maxing them yet, hopefully we will one day.
And yes we are trying to find that middle ground but it has been hard; but we are still trying. I will admit that she has improved a lot since I met her 8 years ago or married her 2 years ago. And I am trying to accept that maybe we don’t have to save as much as we are and it’s ok to splurge a bit here and there…
We just have two different mentalities when it comes to money in general and I can honestly say that 90% of all the fights we’ve ever had has been about money. Everything else we seem to agree on, even politics most of the time which is odd because I am a republican and she is a democrat.

Jan 17, 2011 17:25:03 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Maybe the wife just needs a hug. Sometimes it is ok to be sad and cry about what you don't have without expecting to get it. When I wanted a baby and couldn't conceive I cried some but didn't blame anyone or expect them to hand me a baby because I wanted one.

Perhaps a hug and being told she is worth the stars and the moon and if they could afford them she would be handed everything on a silver platter would make her feel better. She is worth it and deserves all the best in life and he loves her enough to have married her. Unfortunately they have to prioritize like the rest of us, she knows it, she offered to give up her apartment, she doesn't have to be happy about her loss and what she can't have yet.

Thanks crone and I did hug her… by the end of the day we were watching Knight and Day, while eating the Chinese food we ordered earlier and drinking wine. I guess that moment in the car it just all hit her and she had a meltdown and cried. She is still up for giving up the apartment and moving to another apartment … she admits she doesn’t want to do it but understand we need to if we want to reach our goals for the next 3-5 years.

[suzwantstobefree]

It is not uncommon to fight about money in a marriage. You both are bringing into it different values and goals. It would really be great if you took a money management class together and work on this one issue. BTW - I loved Knight and Day -- me and my boyfriend laughed so much

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2011 3:13:43 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Jan 17, 2011 19:16:39 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think its that they can't afford the apartment. Its just that they can't afford the apartment, and save for a house in the time period which they would like to be in a house (and get a phd, and have babies... etc.)... I think they might just be having different priorities on that list.

Basically this… we are not broke at the end of the day… we could afford to stay in the apartment easily but we will need to do the following
- Reduce 401K contributions
- Postpone buying a house for a long while
- Postpone having kids
-Keep fingers crossed that neither one of us ever lose our jobs

OR ... stop eating out 3 times a week, eating out lunches, stop buying so many 'things', stop pampering the puppy... etc... Its not like you only have the one thing in your budget that keeps you from saving more.
Now yes, generally speaking, i'm for reducing the SET expenses, like housing. However, i would want to be sure 1) that you actually be ABLE to save that much by moving (ie. you will not at the same time be paying more for transportation, ammenities, hook up fees, etc.) and 2) you actually WILL save that extra... and not just have the 400 less in rent go to MORE eating out and buying things, etc...
my fear is if you don't stop those spending habits in their own right, that bringing in more money will not ultimately help your bottom line any.... when you try to tamp down the BIG 'i deserve its' ... and don't tend to the underlying habits, it just tends to create lots of little 'i deserve its'... (ie. because i live in that crappy apartment, i deserve to do 'this' or have 'that' every day... and then poof... there goes the extra 400$..

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

"Squirrel!"


...we've had very very few "fights" over money... we do an allowance system, or mad money, or fun money, or whatchamacallit... every month, like clockwork, we each get an equal amount of $ to blow on whatever, no questions asked... the main accounts pay for all the main things... and we do discuss those expenditures and such... I highly recommend it...
...best wishes to you newlyweds...

[happyscooter]

I understand how someone could think they deserve something. I am like one of the other posters in the fact that I have always worked hard, gave to others-money, time, energy, and watched people who didn't do that get ahead in life.

Yeah, I know. Life's not fair.

[Angel!]

Jan 18, 2011 2:48:04 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

We talked about it some more and she just feels that everyone around us our age (friends, cousins, families) are able to purchase such nice things, or live in nicer places and how come we can’t do it. As I explained to her she may not have the whole picture, maybe they are in debt to their eyeballs, or have received money from family or just maybe are getting paid more than we are making both combined.

I'm guessing she would feel much better if she could see the whole financial picture of the people that are making her jealous. Most likely a lot of debt combined with 0 savings.

We had friends that I knew couldn't make much more than we did & were in a very similar situation with kids & such. We were finishing our basement at the same time they were renovating most of their house. They were doing everything top of the line - expensive carpet, expensive paint, $800 for a single set of curtains, very expensive furniture throughout the house, huge flatscreen TV, & they bought 2 brand new cars that had to set them back at least $60K. DH was upset that we weren't doing the same & it bothered me a little too because we were doing most of our work fairly cheaply & weren't buying new furniture or anything.

Then one day he was talking to the husband & found out that they had taken a 2nd mortgage on their house & had racked around 40K in CC debt that they were only making the minimum payments towards. The husband admitted he was worried about their debt level. After that DH stopped asking me why we couldn't afford to live like them.

[Clifford]

If the apartment is such a concern, and you have no kids, have you considered moving out of the HCOL area entirely? All of the job boards seem flush with jobs around your current wages. Move to a LCOL area and get a very nice apartment, or save enough for a home in a shorter time. You said she may see the others who live in the nicer places in the HCOL area and compare herself to them (on the outside). You could move someplace where your wages can afford more, and find new friends who better match your circumstances. 25, no kids, degreed...the world is your oyster. Go find some pearls.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

<<< You could move someplace where your wages can afford more, and find new friends who better match your circumstances. 25, no kids, degreed...the world is your oyster. Go find some pearls. >>>

...well said...