Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery

[chiver78]

Aug 23, 2012 13:48:02 GMT -5 @mox said:

As long as they turn THEIR PROBLEM into a problem for others, then they don't have the problem and don't feel a need to change (again, in their mind). Put THEIR PROBLEM back on them...that is when they will decide to get help or not!

yup, I agree.....except that now I'm being tuned out. probably because I let her know that I'm still trying to sort out how I feel about her poor choices putting me nearly in some serious danger.

it just sucks.

[mox]

"except that now I'm being tuned out"

Typical response. I know. Game playing.

[Jake 48]

Aug 23, 2012 13:43:35 GMT -5 @mox said:

"what's the best way to try to get through to her?"

If she is in denial, there isn't. They make it all about them. You are the bad guys with the problem...she is not (in her mind anyways). JMO Ultimately, it is up to them to face reality and get the help they need. When they do that, be supportive.

Chiver,
Mox says it well and I would just like to add that
I've been down this road several times with DSD, until they are ready to face the truth you will watch them to continue the down hill slide. They have to hit rock bottom and when they do it is only their true friends/ family that will be there for them. Sometimes you have to take a passive approach until they are ready. good luck,

[mox]

I wish my sis would tune me out...for the rest of her life! Which won't be long...IMO

[mox]

"They have to hit rock bottom"

And that can take a long, long time. My sis has pretty much burned all her bridges. We are doing the tough love/intervention approach. Basically, we ALL will have nothing to do with you until you change your ways. If you choose to change your ways, then you will have our support (emotional). Period.

[mox]

After what I have been through with my sis, I no longer find it that difficult to simply walk away from HER PROBLEM.

[mox]

To be honest, I AM FED UP! And so is the rest of the family...

[chiver78]

hugs, moxie.

I could overlook everything else and be passive until she needed me/us, but this badmouthing thing is kind of pissing me off. I haven't gotten any more details than a heads-up that it was going on from one of the other small group of caretakers. I would hope that my friends would know something is a bit off, but wow. should I expect more of the same along this downward spiral?

[mox]

It's hard to like my sister...she has few, if any, redeeming qualities. A mean drunk. Manipulative and lying. Doesn't care who she hurts...family included. It's all about her and getting money for her addictions. Hard to believe she is from the same family...seriously.

[mox]

"but this badmouthing thing is kind of pissing me off."

It's what they do best. Blame everyone else and deny they have a problem.

Thanks chiver, Jake.

[mox]

"should I expect more of the same along this downward spiral?"

Yep.

[mox]

I am so ticked off just thinking about her (that's what she does to us)...glad I am going out for a fun night. Take care, chiver.

[Jaguar]

Aug 23, 2012 14:05:44 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

hugs, moxie.

I could overlook everything else and be passive until she needed me/us, but this badmouthing thing is kind of pissing me off. I haven't gotten any more details than a heads-up that it was going on from one of the other small group of caretakers. I would hope that my friends would know something is a bit off, but wow. should I expect more of the same along this downward spiral?

It's everyone else's fault and NEVER theirs. Good Luck Chive.

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2012 13:54:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Aug 23, 2012 13:48:02 GMT -5 @mox said:

As long as they turn THEIR PROBLEM into a problem for others, then they don't have the problem and don't feel a need to change (again, in their mind). Put THEIR PROBLEM back on them...that is when they will decide to get help or not!

yup, I agree.....except that now I'm being tuned out. probably because I let her know that I'm still trying to sort out how I feel about her poor choices putting me nearly in some serious danger.

it just sucks.

I think you just have to remember that your real friend is there behind the alcohol. That her poor choices weren't choosen by your friend but were choosen by the addict. And, that your friend most likely really loves you but is in a downward spiral where she cannot see the damage she is doing to herself and others. It isn't uncommon for them to seek out people to enable their addiction. For now, i would keep in touch and just check in and be there and understand things could get worse before they get better. The real problem with addiciton is that if they could quit, they would. But, they cannot make a decision to quit while they are still addicted. So, it is a terrible, terrible cycle. One can only hope that some insight breaks through and she will submit to help.

And, i am not against calling the law on friends and family. If my kids were using drugs, i would absolutely have them arrested because having them sit in jail and get off drugs is a far , far better scenario than going further down the road of addiction.

[chiver78]

thanks, shooby. that's what I need to remember - she's in there somewhere.

[Deleted]

Exactly! Don't lose sight of that. And, she may push you away and you may have to step away for awhile as well. I guess i am saying to always just keep that door open because down the road of life, she might realize the hurt and pain inflicted and come back to her senses. It really is a terrible thing to see someone go down that path. I honestly think there should some point where people are involuntarily committed to treatment for their own good.

[Deleted]

I am sad to report yet ANOTHER addiction related death in our community of a young 20something man. Ugh. We have to stop gnashing about whether this is a "disease" or not and start taking action. We don't find someone along side the road who has just been run over and is bleeding and dying and then just leave them there to "seek treatment" when they are ready. We presume they need and want help and we scoop and go to a top notch facility. It is TIME for our society to "scoop and go" with addiction.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

You can't make a person quit - they have to admit to their addiction and WANT help before treatment will do any good - it's not at all the same as someone being struck by a car and needing help.

Unless you've had to put someone into rehab for their substance of choice (and more than once), you don't know the physical and mental struggle it is to beat - and the addict (whether alcohol or drugs) has to be mentally 100% on the page to go though with their treatment to the end and then follow after-treatment steps and checkups to make sure they don't relapse and undo all the hard work. It's a LOT tougher than it sounds - and can't be at all compared to someone having an ACCIDENT and needing medical assistance.

[Deleted]

You cannot make a rational decision that you really want to quit using until you quit using. That is the paradox. Yeah, there are few people who can and do quit and tough it out. But, people are dying. Our approach is not working.

[roygrip]

Aug 23, 2012 13:43:35 GMT -5 @mox said:

"what's the best way to try to get through to her?"

If she is in denial, there isn't. They make it all about them. You are the bad guys with the problem...she is not (in her mind anyways). JMO Ultimately, it is up to them to face reality and get the help they need. When they do that, be supportive.

AMEN MOX!!!! Right on the nose!

You cannot "make" anyone liswten, particularly and alcoholic/addict. You can present, you can encourage, but for the most part, they will only listen when the want to. Denial, rationalizing, etc. You the people wishing to help, as Mox says become the bad guys. You must stand aside and let the chips fall, sadly, this side of an intervention (which only works if they want it) Alcoholics must reach their own bottom!

[roygrip]

Aug 23, 2012 14:58:54 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Aug 23, 2012 13:54:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

yup, I agree.....except that now I'm being tuned out. probably because I let her know that I'm still trying to sort out how I feel about her poor choices putting me nearly in some serious danger.

it just sucks.

I think you just have to remember that your real friend is there behind the alcohol. That her poor choices weren't choosen by your friend but were choosen by the addict. And, that your friend most likely really loves you but is in a downward spiral where she cannot see the damage she is doing to herself and others. It isn't uncommon for them to seek out people to enable their addiction. For now, i would keep in touch and just check in and be there and understand things could get worse before they get better. The real problem with addiciton is that if they could quit, they would. But, they cannot make a decision to quit while they are still addicted. So, it is a terrible, terrible cycle. One can only hope that some insight breaks through and she will submit to help.

And, i am not against calling the law on friends and family. If my kids were using drugs, i would absolutely have them arrested because having them sit in jail and get off drugs is a far , far better scenario than going further down the road of addiction.

Another Winner! Every addict/alcoholic must find their own bottom (sadly) Be there when she hits!

[roygrip]

Aug 25, 2012 14:47:54 GMT -5 @shooby said:

I am sad to report yet ANOTHER addiction related death in our community of a young 20something man. Ugh. We have to stop gnashing about whether this is a "disease" or not and start taking action. We don't find someone along side the road who has just been run over and is bleeding and dying and then just leave them there to "seek treatment" when they are ready. We presume they need and want help and we scoop and go to a top notch facility. It is TIME for our society to "scoop and go" with addiction.

Sadly, you can lead the "horse" to water, but cannot force him to drink. The Disease (yes I'm a believer in that it's a disease) is spiritual, physical, mental. We as addicts (I speak from my own heart) are spiritualy bankcrupt. It was all about me. I was physically addicted to both the drugs and alcohol. And mentally addicted as well. For a person to seek recovery (and stick to it) All issues need to be addressed simultaneously!!!! This is why most fail. Just taking away the dope, or alcohol doesn't do it. The problem lies in the person doing the drugs, that's what needs to be addressed

[roygrip]

By the way new season started on my shows, I"VE BEEN DOIN' 60 hr weeks since mid July!

[roygrip]

Aug 25, 2012 15:00:25 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

You can't make a person quit - they have to admit to their addiction and WANT help before treatment will do any good - it's not at all the same as someone being struck by a car and needing help.

Unless you've had to put someone into rehab for their substance of choice (and more than once), you don't know the physical and mental struggle it is to beat - and the addict (whether alcohol or drugs) has to be mentally 100% on the page to go though with their treatment to the end and then follow after-treatment steps and checkups to make sure they don't relapse and undo all the hard work. It's a LOT tougher than it sounds - and can't be at all compared to someone having an ACCIDENT and needing medical assistance.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! Drugs/alcohol are but a symptom of whats going on inside. Those issues need to be dealt with, the "why" of why this person is using and became an addict. In my case it was low self esteem (for no reason at all) Non the less, the drugs "empowered" me at first, made me feel like superman. Then they consumed every waking minute of my life. I detoxed, cleared my head, then worked the 12 step program with a great sponsor and grand sponsor, dealt with those issues as well as some counseling. 11.5 years of sobriety, and I still work on myself. I stay, "in recovery"

[Deleted]

Good morning roy! Haven't chatted with ya in awhile!

[roygrip]

Sept 2, 2012 9:27:08 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Good morning roy! Haven't chatted with ya in awhile!

Got a little time off (finally) hope all is well sweetie! ;D

[Deleted]

I missed ya! What is new?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Welcome back, roy - glad you're doing well.

[mmhmm]

Great to see you've found a bit of time to share with us, Roy! It's good to be busy, but it's nice for us to hear from you and know you're doing well! Hugs!

[femmefatale]

Welcome back, Roy!