steff
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I'll sleep when I'm dead
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Post by steff on Oct 31, 2011 14:12:34 GMT -5
Or, perhaps, there is an afterlife independent from God, one that we experience without God's input. Since our lives seem to play out with any interference, our transition to the next life may also occur without interference ... and without the fire and brimstone. It is simply a natural process. What that afterlife may be is anyone's guess, but we can make certain deductions. For instance, a true paradise would have to be unique to each individual, not a one size fits all affair. Perhaps our own belief influences the result or even shapes the next reality. However, the idea of going to Heaven, where our existence serves no definable purpose or where we simply "bask in God's glory" sounds equally as hellish as a lake of fire. I'm hoping for reincarnation.... I wanna come back as a well loved house cat.... ;D
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 31, 2011 14:14:58 GMT -5
FF, I am not the one wo is making the claim, you are. You state the bible is true, I need your reasons for stating this fact. Because the Bible tells me so.
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 31, 2011 14:15:37 GMT -5
( snicker)...Nanna! When you calling me? You got my #
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 31, 2011 14:16:51 GMT -5
Ok, well this convo has been very ummmmm....inlightning but I think I will go to get some things done and watch an Osteen video or something. Hagd Tosh...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 14:20:52 GMT -5
I wanna see, I wanna see!!! ;D I'm sure if you look it up, you can find it. But I don't think you care and I'm not trying to be a smart azz either. Just like I'm not looking up atheism. Not interested in it. Wrong. I have spent countless hours looking for evidence and none has presented itself. You have no idea of my background or studies. I suggest you keep an open mind and always, always ask questions.
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
And don't forget, Have Faith!
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Oct 31, 2011 14:23:23 GMT -5
dwij.org/forum/amarna/2_cmndmts_book_of_the_dead.htmlTexas, there are loads more. If you like detective stories then Moses is a good one, he may have been a priest of the Egyptian Pharaoh Amenhotep 1V, he first introduced monotheism but it was abandoned after his death in the 14 th century bce, maybe Moses had to leave and took monotheism with him. Coincidently Amenhotep wrote a psalm that is in the book of Psalms. The dates of Moses and Amenhotep are very very close. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 31, 2011 14:25:00 GMT -5
I'm sure if you look it up, you can find it. But I don't think you care and I'm not trying to be a smart azz either. Just like I'm not looking up atheism. Not interested in it. Wrong. I have spent countless hours looking for evidence and none has presented itself. You have no idea of my background or studies. I suggest you keep an open mind and always, always ask questions. My mind IS open to the Lord. I have no further questions to ask. Thanks again for giving me advice. Oh and try having Faith! While we're giving out unsolicited advice.
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:25:13 GMT -5
Thanks Tosh, I want to read those.. I did look up the Book of the Dead and didn't see anything, I will look those others up.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Oct 31, 2011 14:26:59 GMT -5
It's a lousy code. First of all, almost half of the commandments are religious in nature ... nonsense about worshiping "no other god," keeping the Sabbath holy, warning against idolatry, not taking the Lord's name in vain, etc.
Honoring your parents is a pretty minor rule, as well, especially if your parents aren't worth honoring. I would think that a parent who sends their kids off to do bad things isn't a parent worth honoring, no? Yet you'd be breaking a commandment.
But more to the point, it's what is NOT in the commandments that speaks volumes: Pedophilia, rape, torture, aggressive wars, terrorism, bullying, imperialism, slavery, indentured servitude, beating your wife/husband/children, even LYING didn't make the list. (And no, bearing false witness does not count as "lying" because that only covers a very specific type of lying, what we today call "perjury").
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 14:28:26 GMT -5
Wrong. I have spent countless hours looking for evidence and none has presented itself. You have no idea of my background or studies. I suggest you keep an open mind and always, always ask questions. My mind IS open to the Lord. I have no further questions to ask. Thanks again for giving me advice. Oh and try having Faith! While we're giving out unsolicited advice. Oh I see, my unsolicited advice to ask questions does not mix well with blind faith. lol My mind is open to EVERYTHING, I just need a little proof.
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:29:12 GMT -5
A lousy code? So killing others is ok with you? Screwing your neighbor? How about stealing? Its basic common sense.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Oct 31, 2011 14:29:39 GMT -5
I do not know God does not exist, I believe God does not exist.
You can not know God exists because this requires knowledge of existence, knowledge of existence requires evidence and you do not have any evidence.
God exists is a false statement, you believe god exists is ok but watch it !! ;D
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:31:34 GMT -5
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:33:33 GMT -5
I do not know God does not exist, I believe God does not exist. You can not know God exists because this requires knowledge of existence, knowledge of existence requires evidence and you do not have any evidence. God exists is a false statement, you believe god exists is ok but watch it !! ;D False to You? Not me.. You as well! ;D
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Oct 31, 2011 14:36:24 GMT -5
It's the journey, not the destination, young grasshoppa! While you want to jump right to the end and wrap up the discussion in a few posts, we tend to learn more from people who do NOT agree with us. That requires a journey, not an instant teleport to the end of the book.
But while we're all being nice and blunt, I'll be the same. This topic may very well be dead since it seems there is way too much favoritism on this thread. For instance, the moment Weltz opens her mouth, the "ignore" button is slammed while Tosh says things far more "rude" but somehow Femme just can't quite bring herself to putting him on ignore. My posts are usually ignored even though I'm not "officially" on anyone's ignore list. Joey's Apple receives a free pass just like Tosh.
I think this thread is more enlightening for its high school social dynamics than for its discussion on religion.
Perhaps those who do not engage in flirtatious banter in between debating points get kicked to the curb?
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Oct 31, 2011 14:39:05 GMT -5
Yes, it's a lousy code. That does not mean I think killing or stealing is "okay" with me. But those two, as well as the commandment against perjury, are the only three really worth anything. The other seven could have included some of the other big no-nos like rape, child abuse, torture, or even cruelty to animals would have been better than "keeping the Sabbath holy."
I think you know what I meant, so even asking if I thought killing was "okay" was a bit disingenuous, don't you think?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 14:41:16 GMT -5
Tosh. Hi. Aside from our not being able to, thus far, give you an adequate response, why is the above question so important to you? I am asking this of you in all sincerity.. Without an ounce of sarcasm. Oops... Seriously, Tosh, why so important to you? I quit trying to convince you, or anyone else of, or why, my faith in God and choose to believe in God and his Son Jesus, as a child does his parents.. And He ( Jesus) called a little child to Himself and put him in the midst of them, And said, Truly I say to you, unless you repent (change, turn about) and become like little children [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving], you can never enter the kingdom of heaven [at all]. Whoever will humble himself therefore and become like this little child [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving] is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. – Matt 18:2-4Call or label me whatever fills your blank.. The simplicity of my answer will always remain the same.. Re: Does God exist ?A resounding yes! My proof? "Simply because He (God) said so in his word, which I, in childlike and in adulthood manner, choose to believe!" Kinda to simple for you Tosh, huh? I know you will have an answer just for me..
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Post by jemima on Oct 31, 2011 14:44:38 GMT -5
Perhaps Tosh has a sparkling aura?
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:44:47 GMT -5
Shiriana, Weltz is not a nice person and has been called out for it. She belittles and is rude
I like Tosh, and Joey.. we may not agree, but they have not been rude, but engaging and there is a difference.
I like to learn and know and look up the links that Tosh provides.
Whats wrong in flirting anyway? I like flirting..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 14:44:51 GMT -5
It's the journey, not the destination, young grasshoppa! While you want to jump right to the end and wrap up the discussion in a few posts, we tend to learn more from people who do NOT agree with us. That requires a journey, not an instant teleport to the end of the book. But while we're all being nice and blunt, I'll be the same. This topic may very well be dead since it seems there is way too much favoritism on this thread. For instance, the moment Weltz opens her mouth, the "ignore" button is slammed while Tosh says things far more "rude" but somehow Femme just can't quite bring herself to putting him on ignore. My posts are usually ignored even though I'm not "officially" on anyone's ignore list. Joey's Apple receives a free pass just like Tosh. I think this thread is more enlightening for its high school social dynamics than for its discussion on religion. Perhaps those who do not engage in flirtatious banter in between debating points get kicked to the curb? That is an interesting observation Shirina. First let me say I always enjoy your posts and find you to be very logical and you always bring something to the table. I have found over my years of posting on message boards that when you discuss politics or religion sometimes (depending on the participants) it is good to show your human, or humorous side so as to not cause hurt feelings and to bring things to a more sociable level.
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:45:58 GMT -5
Perhaps Tosh has a sparkling aura? Exactly, while others just wreak! ;D
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Oct 31, 2011 14:48:06 GMT -5
LOL! No, that is not the "easiest" position to take. When it comes to religion, it is one of the hardest since you have believers on one side and die-hard atheists on the other both trying to knock you to their side of that fence.
By far, the "easiest" position is to do what everyone else is doing because that invites warm and fuzzy feelings of acceptance and social approval. Becoming a Christian in a nation where 80+ per-cent of people believe in the Christian God and where being religious is somehow part and parcel to being American, oh how easy it would be to rush down to my nearest church and embrace faith.
But I can't do it because I can't believe. It is not an act of defiance or rebellion. I just can't do it. There are too many glaring and obvious reasons why it doesn't make sense. I have tried to express some of them here, most having been met with chirping crickets and blowing tumbleweeds as a response.
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:49:03 GMT -5
It's the journey, not the destination, young grasshoppa! While you want to jump right to the end and wrap up the discussion in a few posts, we tend to learn more from people who do NOT agree with us. That requires a journey, not an instant teleport to the end of the book. But while we're all being nice and blunt, I'll be the same. This topic may very well be dead since it seems there is way too much favoritism on this thread. For instance, the moment Weltz opens her mouth, the "ignore" button is slammed while Tosh says things far more "rude" but somehow Femme just can't quite bring herself to putting him on ignore. My posts are usually ignored even though I'm not "officially" on anyone's ignore list. Joey's Apple receives a free pass just like Tosh. I think this thread is more enlightening for its high school social dynamics than for its discussion on religion. Perhaps those who do not engage in flirtatious banter in between debating points get kicked to the curb? That is an interesting observation Shirina. First let me say I always enjoy your posts and find you to be very logical and you always bring something to the table. I have found over my years of posting on message boards that when you discuss politics or religion sometimes (depending on the participants) it is good to show your human, or humorous side so as to not cause hurt feelings and to bring things to a more sociable level.And that is what Tosh' does, Femme, does and I like to do.. humor.. Weltz? will never happen
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Post by jemima on Oct 31, 2011 14:49:23 GMT -5
On my top ten hate list.
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gavinsnana
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If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
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Post by gavinsnana on Oct 31, 2011 14:51:15 GMT -5
Gotta run.. Errands.. Enjoy Happy Halloween.. for you Tosh..
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Tosh
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Post by Tosh on Oct 31, 2011 14:55:51 GMT -5
Heart, it is an excellent question, one I will answer with all sincerity.
I am a student of philosophy and psychology, I am fascinated by the reasons behind religious belief, it is universal.
I am a realist, I look for my answers in the natural world and my worldview is based on what exists, I see religion as the last remnants of a post cognizant fearful mind.
It is no coincidence that all religions offer immortality in one form or another, I believe death denial is the main reason people believe in a supreme being.
Morality is simply death avoidance, immortality is death denial, add them together with a father figure and you have religion.
I genuinely believe supernatural beliefs are an obstacle to human evolution and well being.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 14:56:29 GMT -5
That is an interesting observation Shirina. First let me say I always enjoy your posts and find you to be very logical and you always bring something to the table. I have found over my years of posting on message boards that when you discuss politics or religion sometimes (depending on the participants) it is good to show your human, or humorous side so as to not cause hurt feelings and to bring things to a more sociable level.And that is what Tosh' does, Femme, does and I like to do.. humor.. Weltz? will never happen That is your opinion, I have no problem with Weltz and find that it works both ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 14:57:06 GMT -5
Gotta run.. Errands.. Enjoy Happy Halloween.. for you Tosh.. Happy Halloween!
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Oct 31, 2011 14:57:53 GMT -5
No she's not. I've been reading her posts and she has not been rude. She has asked some tough questions. That is all.
At the very least, she hasn't been any more rude than Tosh, and I dare say, Tosh's posts are far more controversial. Femme herself was getting all frustrated with Tosh, but the way in which Femme reprimands Tosh is like a being beaten with a feather, but when Weltz posts, she beats her with a titanium rod. I could, in theory, go back and pull countless examples from past posts to prove this without a doubt ... but I'm hoping people will see what's going on and save themselves the embarrassment of having past posts displayed.
Nothing ... if you like flirting. I'm not a flirter, especially on message boards. It's not what I come here to do. More to the point, however, I've found myself stalked in RL several times because I was flirtatious on the internet, so I am not eager to repeat those mistakes. I'm not suggesting anyone on THIS thread would become a stalker, but it's going to take more than this to bring my guard down. Thus, I keep things strictly business most of the time.
But I do not think the willingness to flirt should be a prerequisite for joining in a discussion.
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