Does God exist ?

[Tosh]

didn't post very often on that forum but did occasionally lurk and I remember your ID and the Dude Abides one...I think that was it.

My, you do have a good memory, I believe that was in the bad old days, I have mellowed some what since then.

I am a born again atheist.

[Tosh]

If that's you jumping down someone's throat then I think I prefer "cerebral" people.

I have not always been as polite, I used to be an infamous troll.

I retired about 2 years ago.

[Deleted]

Good for you! My pacifistic tendencies are a byproduct of my extreme laziness.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2011 11:15:04 GMT -5 cael said:

Sorry, should've clarified! UU = Unitarian Universalism, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_universalism

Archie I love that Douglas Adams passage, haha!

The thing about Unitarian Universalism is that it really isn’t a religion at all; not in the sense most people understand. You can be a Catholic UU, a Protestant UU a Muslim or Jew UU, in fact you can be an atheist UU. I think it was founded by some old hippies that said…”hey, what’s so funny about peace, love and understanding”. They appear to be very well meaning. Their beliefs and goals are admirable. They sort of remind me of the beauty pageant contestant who, when asked what her greatest wish is, she answers, without missing a beat…world peace.

"We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote
• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

[mmhmm]

Oh, and I am most certainly not a member of the 'Dana Crew". I wonder where that group of imbeciles ended up. Actually I don't.

They were beginning to turn on each other near the end. They may be in a land-fill somewhere.

[Tosh]

They were beginning to turn on each other near the end. They may be in a land-fill somewhere.

I had some interesting exchanges with them for a while, they decided it wasn't worth it.

[swamp]

Sept 19, 2011 10:57:18 GMT -5 domic said:

Yes there is a God. The only way to Him is through Jesus Christ, and it nothing to do with any good deeds or being a good person.

Serial killers go to heaven to meet Baby Jesus as long as they've accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, but Ghandi goes to hell. Somehow that just doesn't seem right.

[Deleted]

Did anyone else think of Dark's thread after reading that?

[Tosh]

Serial killers go to heaven to meet Baby Jesus as long as they've accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, but Ghandi goes to hell. Somehow that just doesn't seem right.

If you are selling Jesus as a demi-god to polytheistic pagans, promising them immortality regardless of their other beliefs and actions, was not the daftest idea.

After Christianity flopped with the Jews, the religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus, they had to sell it somehow-somewhere.

[Tosh]

Did anyone else think of Dark's thread after reading that?

There is only one unforgiveable sin in Christianity, denying the holy spirit.

That is why death row is full of born again Christians.

[Deleted]

Love it!

[Tosh]

I find Christian anti-semitism quite baffling:

Jesus was a Jew, his family were Jews, his followers were Jews, his audience were Jews, he preached nothing new ( Judaism) and he was killed by the Romans for his Jewish nationalism!!

I have heard of spin, but anti-semitism takes the biscuit, the people who wrote the Jews killed Jesus were not even present at his death and were not even Jews.

[swamp]

Sept 19, 2011 13:15:55 GMT -5 Tosh said:

I find Christian anti-semitism quite baffling:

Jesus was a Jew, his family were Jews, his followers were Jews, his audience were Jews, he preached nothing new ( Judaism) and he was killed by the Romans for his Jewish nationalism!!

I don't quite get it either.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2011 13:15:55 GMT -5 Tosh said:

I find Christian anti-semitism quite baffling:

But you understand Antisemitism in general?

[Tosh]

But you understand Antisemitism in general?

Is this a riddle ?

[Deleted]

If I say yes will you answer it?

[Tosh]

If I say yes will you answer it?

Nope, but I will answer your question if you define antisemitism in general, there is not much antisemitism in general in India or China.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2011 11:44:14 GMT -5 Tosh said:

didn't post very often on that forum but did occasionally lurk and I remember your ID and the Dude Abides one...I think that was it.

My, you do have a good memory, I believe that was in the bad old days, I have mellowed some what since then.

I am a born again atheist.

Ah yes, the troll wars of 2009, they will remain legendary until some alien species discovers them in the year 3535 and will interpret them as some sort of strange courting ritual.

We are completely off topic, but you know who I really enjoyed reading on that board: Jan Thomas. She, with her Oxbridge education, always indignant about this or that with a particular hatred for a certain individual who must have been on some sort of social assistance and was always going on about how many children were dying every day.

I remember she also had some choice words for one of the Scottish poster, to paraphrase…’a violent, uncouth, ill mannered savage’. LMAO

She was outstanding in her insults. But enough about that.

I may head to the Market and Politics boards and defend Obama, it is a thankless job, but someone has to do it.

[Tosh]

We are completely off topic, but you know who I really enjoyed reading on that board: Jan Thomas. She, with her Oxbridge education, always indignant about this or that with a particular hatred for a certain individual who must have been on some sort of social assistance and was always going on about how many children were dying every day.

Yes, good old Jan had a soft spot for a 17 year unemployed chap with 5 kids, CGF was one of his many nomenclatures, he was obsessed with me and dying children.

My full ID used to be Toshmanta, which is a misspelled anagram of Jan Thomas, it was supposed to be Joshmanta, lol.

We became good friends.

[Tosh]

Chrisitian antisemitism is a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion.

The NT is antisemitic, if you preach antisemitism then you will get it in abundance, the Christian faith has only taken their foot off the neck of the Jews in the last 50 years or so.

Islam is still dithering.

[Tosh]

Read the Bible, you will find your answer there

I have read the bible my friend, there is no reason to believe it is true and voluminous reasons to believe it is false.

The bible is not evidence nor proof that god exists, therefore it does not answer the question " does god exist " ?

You and many others have faith the bible is true, I do not share this faith, if you can tell me why you think the bible is true then you may be able to answer the question.

[swamp]

I doubt there are many Christians who are anti semitic though you can find extreme examples of all kinds of things if you look.

the KKK. the neo nazis, the skinheads.........

[Tosh]

You will need to find that peace yourself, Until you do, there will be no answer that satisfies you

If you do not know why you think the bible is true, that's ok, I cant find the passage either, hence my dilemma, I do not share your faith.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2011 18:42:46 GMT -5 @rj said:

Sept 19, 2011 18:39:55 GMT -5 Tosh said:

If you do not know why you think the bible is true, that's OK, I cant find the passage either, hence my dilemma, I do not share your faith.

I know why I believe, and I will not justify it to you. If you really want to know the answer, you will have to do the leg work. It will not come unless you truly want a relationship with God, and that's between you and him.

Oh good fycking lord, and here I thought Rick was one of the cool kids. Hey, whatever floats your boat and gets you through your day and night.

Will I get reprimanded for speaking my mind...cowers, waiting, waiting to get admonished from one of the overlords.

Maybe this god thing is not such a good idea in polite company. The problem is, I'm often impolite.

[Deleted]

[Tosh]

I know why I believe, and I will not justify it to you. If you really want to know the answer, you will have to do the leg work. It will not come unless you truely want a relationship with God, and thats between you and him.

Please calm down, I am simply asking you why you consider the bible to be a true account of historical events, the bible says there is one god, why do you believe the bible ?

[roygrip]

And the beat goes on!

[Tosh]

Sorry. You are crossing the line there. The NT is not antisemitic. And, if you want to have a real, honest, and well thought out discussion then fine. If you hear to just spout your nonsense and toss up unfounded BS, then i am not playing.

Afternoon Snerdley,

Only someone who has not read the NT would claim it is not antisemitic, only someone who is unaware of the origins of Christianity would claim antisemitism in the NT was nonsense.

I do not spout unfounded BS, I study the NT and early Christianity, and you must take into account the historical context the gospels were written.

The gospels were written to convert Roman pagans, they were written after the split between the early Jewish followers of Jesus and the converts of Saul of Tarsus.
The gospels were written to strengthen the claim of a divine Jesus and to discredit the counter claims of the Jewish church.
The Jewish church and the Jewish followers of Jesus ( including the disciples) were monotheists, they did not believe Jesus was divine. You must realise that the terms Messiah and Son of God to a Jew does not indicate divinity, Jesus was a Jew and a monotheist.

The oldest gospel is attributed to Mark ( actually it is unauthored) , it was not written by an eye witness but was written some 30-35 years after the death of Jesus.
It was written by a Roman Christian convert and was intended for a Roman audience, naturally it does not portray Rome as the enemy of Jesus, the executioner of Jesus and opposing the teachings of Jesus.
You are not going to get many Roman converts if they think the empire disapproves of the religion and its leader. Therefore the blame for the death of Jesus is placed not on Rome but the Jews, Jews did not execute people for claiming to be the son of God nor a messiah. If Jesus claimed to be God he would have been stoned for blasphemy, there would be no need to involve Rome. Jesus was crucified by the Romans, this is the penalty for sedition, Jesus was preaching against Roman oppression, he was a Jewish nationalist ( Messiah).

By the time the gospel of John was written ( John was illiterate) some 60-65 years after the crucification, the enemies of Jesus ( and God) are collectively referred to as " Jews".
Finally in John 8:37-39 the Jews are products of the devil.

"If you were Abraham's children, you would do what Abraham did. ... You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.

The antisemitism of the NT must be considered in its historical and theological context, the trouble was Christians took it literally for nearly 2000 years.

[Tosh]

And the beat goes on!

Afternoon Roy, some rather tetchy people on this thread, not conducive to polite discussion.

[Deleted]

I see you've met Snerd, then.