Does God exist ?

[Tosh]

i believe in god

I do not want to presume, can you define your god ?

[swamp]

I have no idea. The idea of God seems kinda silly. However, if he does exist, I'd hate to piss him of by saying he doesn't exist.

I was raised CAtholic, and told that you have to do "x" or you're going to Hell. Meanwhile the Protestants and the Jews don't follow the same rules. Why would God give a flying fuck whether or not I eat meat on Friday or screw my boyfriend as long as I'm nice to people and help out less fortunate? Why would the dude who goes to mass every sunday, follows the rules, and held up as a pillar of his community go to heaven when he screws people over in business or screws his secretary? Why does he let little kids starve?

There are 1 billion muslims in the world, and I can't believe they're going to hell just because they happened to be born in Saudi Arabia where you have to be muslim.

[Tosh]

I have no idea. The idea of God seems kinda silly. However, if he does exist, I'd hate to piss him of by saying he doesn't exist.

I believe this position is known as Pascal's wager.

I am not sure my belief in a creator would involve mankind's various guesses concerning its nature and wants, I have serious doubts that any creator myth in history represents the views of any superior being.

[Tosh]

I guess it is a bit presumptuous for humans to say there is only one god or creator, logically it takes two to create life.

[swamp]

I have serious doubts that any creator myth in history represents the views of any superior being.

Unless someone has a hotline to God, or he shows up, any "message from God" is subject to the interpretation of a human.

[roygrip]

I'm in the spiritual corner, a believer, God is all, all is God. A oneness with everything (not the whitehaired guy)

[kman]

Math proves the existence of God. The odds of what happened to me and my child are proof. No question.

What are the odds of meeting your child's birth mothers best friend on the day she is born? I don't know these people...private adoption


Think about this. Meeting the birhtmothers best friend...by chance..and discovering..that not only is this the day of birth ...but I am the adoptive parent

[kman]

The equivalent of this would be me winning 12 power ball lotteries.....money ...women .....yahts.....the things I could have done...oh well. Just happy to have a great daughter.

[diamonds]

Sept 17, 2011 21:05:24 GMT -5 roygrip said:

I'm in the spiritual corner, a believer, God is all, all is God. A oneness with everything (not the whitehaired guy)

.... Agree with you and a lovely way to put it!

[ktunes]

i believe there is a God...i believe there is a purpose for human life and our existence...i believe that humans have free choice in the matter...

by looking at current world conditions, we humans do not choose well...

[Tosh]

Math proves the existence of God. The odds of what happened to me and my child are proof. No question.

What are the odds of meeting your child's birth mothers best friend on the day she is born? I don't know these people...private adoption


Think about this. Meeting the birhtmothers best friend...by chance..and discovering..that not only is this the day of birth ...but I am the adoptive parent

Lovely story but improbable things do happen, good and bad.

The chances of getting hit on the head by a coconut and killed are 0.0000004%, yet 150 people a year die of this cause.

Proof of God or proof of probability ?

[Tosh]

Why must life survive? A random blob of chemicals has no underpinning to "survive" as surviving in itself or the notions of surviving are again subscribing supernatural thoughts to random nothings. There would be no more impetus to survive than not survive. It isn't a "thought" of a nothing.

A random blob of chemicals does not need thoughts to survive, its survival and reproduction are functions of its DNA sequence, its properties instruct survival at the genetic and instinctual level. We are also a random blob of chemicals who can think and are also genetically instructed to survive and reproduce, the evolutionary process transforms simplicity into complexity over vast periods of time.

However the question still remains whether the genetic life force is intentional or accidental.

[Tosh]

I disagree because i am not God. In order to be all in one or one in all, I would have to be God as well. And, while i am obviously right about most everything, i am not perfect so therefore not God.

The Kingdom of God is within you and all around you, so it is said.

[Tosh]

I can understand humans believing in an immortal soul, our consciousness feels external and the delusion has some basis.

However there is no such basis for the belief in a creator, I need more than an old book to persuade me of any gods existence.

I can understand early sun worship, it makes primitive sense but a creator of 500 billion trillion planets is a big pill to swallow on its own.

[kman]

Sept 18, 2011 2:57:19 GMT -5 Tosh said:

Math proves the existence of God. The odds of what happened to me and my child are proof. No question.

What are the odds of meeting your child's birth mothers best friend on the day she is born? I don't know these people...private adoption


Think about this. Meeting the birhtmothers best friend...by chance..and discovering..that not only is this the day of birth ...but I am the adoptive parent

Lovely story but improbable things do happen, good and bad.

The chances of getting hit on the head by a coconut and killed are 0.0000004%, yet 150 people a year die of this cause.

Proof of God or proof of probability ?

Stand under a tree..probability exists. How many people have this happened to a year?..decade...milenium?

[kman]

Improbable story..Really? ..Dig deep tosh...cocnuts?
I had an encouter with the birthmothers best friend on the day she was born..

[Tosh]

OK, so you think we are just random blobs whose feelings, thoughts, actions and humanity are nothing more than a chemical reaction. So, then what? If that is how you wish to operate your life and how you view the world, then fine.

Please do not put words into my mouth thank you very much, my world view does not incorporate words such as " just " and " nothing more than ". The physical nature of our existence does not remove meaning, significance and purpose, nor does it demean human values and emotions.

Knowledge and truth are not barriers to human progress nor human spirituality, removing God from the equation does not mean removing feelings of love, empathy, compassion and altruism.

The principles and goals of Humanism are nearly identical to religion, the only difference between the two relate to their origins, natural or supernatural.

There is nothing insignificant about being human in the natural world.

[Tosh]

The concept of survival involves the notion that it is better to survive than not. To have this notion involves making a determination or judgment that one is better than the other. As for its properties that instruct survival, who instilled these properties and message code into DNA in the first place? The clay is not the same thing as the Potter.

This is one of the questions I am seeking an answer to, is life and its survival force simply an outcome of chemical serendipity or does it have intentionality.

[roygrip]

Sept 17, 2011 23:09:26 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

Sept 17, 2011 22:54:09 GMT -5 diamonds said:

.... Agree with you and a lovely way to put it!

I disagree because i am not God. In order to be all in one or one in all, I would have to be God as well. And, while i am obviously right about most everything, i am not perfect so therefore not God.

I disagree, I'm not saying this means I am God, I'm saying we're all part and parcel. A oneness, part of his plan, his being. His children, a part of. This planet, this universe, this world, a part of, the plants, the water, the air. God is all, all is God. It's my belief, it works for me. It's what feels "right" for me. There are just to many perfections in nature in my mind for there not to be. And formulized "religion" no matter who says their right, bothers me.. In getting sober and following 12 step, I had to "come to believe" a "power greater than myself" could help me out of my mess. 12 step DOESN'T say God (though for convienence they use it) This is the power I use. I couldn't do it myself ( I tried many times)

I'm also one of the ones who has died and seen the "light at the end of the tunnel" Tosh will (and that's OK) explain it away, but it's why I'm a believer
Again, I'm not trying to change anyones view, or be changed. I'm expressing my belief pattern, in my simple layman way.

[roygrip]

Sept 18, 2011 3:25:50 GMT -5 Tosh said:

I disagree because i am not God. In order to be all in one or one in all, I would have to be God as well. And, while i am obviously right about most everything, i am not perfect so therefore not God.

The Kingdom of God is within you and all around you, so it is said.

This is right down my alley, my side of the street. This is my belief system

God is all, all is God

[Tosh]

This is right down my alley, my side of the street. This is my belief system

Me too, we disagree on the definition of God, we do not disagree on the definition of good.

Peace and hellllllooooo, from your friendly atheist and Humanist.

[Tosh]

Life is an epic, it does not lose its importance or beauty because it is a human epic and not a divine epic.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2011 23:01:51 GMT -5 kman said:

Improbable story..Really? ..Dig deep tosh...cocnuts?
I had an encouter with the birthmothers best friend on the day she was born..

Her best friend was having a baby. Perhaps she went to the hospital to support her.

The Bible is not just an "old book" if that is what you are referring too. It is a composite of many books spanning time and various authors. Perhaps you need to educate yourself on that as well.

It's still older than I am, so it's old to me.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2011 5:49:11 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

Sept 18, 2011 3:18:52 GMT -5 Tosh said:

A random blob of chemicals does not need thoughts to survive, its survival and reproduction are functions of its DNA sequence, its properties instruct survival at the genetic and instinctual level. We are also a random blob of chemicals who can think and are also genetically instructed to survive and reproduce, the evolutionary process transforms simplicity into complexity over vast periods of time.

However the question still remains whether the genetic life force is intentional or accidental.

OK, so you think we are just random blobs whose feelings, thoughts, actions and humanity are nothing more than a chemical reaction. So, then what? If that is how you wish to operate your life and how you view the world, then fine.

Thank you! This blob thinks we're worm bait.

[roygrip]

Sept 19, 2011 7:27:28 GMT -5 Tosh said:

This is right down my alley, my side of the street. This is my belief system

Me too, we disagree on the definition of God, we do not disagree on the definition of good.

Peace and hellllllooooo, from your friendly atheist and Humanist.

And that's Ok to disagree, over tea, we might see we're not so far off. have a great day Tosh.

[Tosh]

The Bible is not just an "old book" if that is what you are referring too. It is a composite of many books spanning time and various authors. Perhaps you need to educate yourself on that as well.

I am well aware of the history of both the Jewish Scriptures and the NT, please calm down and try avoid the personal insults, it weakens your case.

The point I was endeavouring to make is that there are millions of old books that make extraordinary claims, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The existence and contents of an old book are not evidence of the ordinary nor the extraordinary.

[cael]

Swamp and thyme

I was raised UU and love my church and religion ;D we are encouraged to search for our own meaning and our own truths and support others in their searches and in whatever they believe. At this point I'd say I'm agnostic, I tried for years to convince myself to believe in "God" (the Christian god), and felt badly that I couldn't make myself believe it. So now I really don't know! I like discussing and listening to others talk about it though

[Tosh]

Improbable story..Really? ..Dig deep tosh...coconuts?
I had an encounter with the birth mothers best friend on the day she was born..

Yes I know, you said already.

What can I say, improbable and seemingly inexplicable things do happen, it is a logical fallacy to take this premise and conclude it proves God exists.

Our primitive ancestors found most things inexplicable and attached spirits to them, I had hoped we had grown out of this way of thinking.

[Deleted]

I believe the Bible is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so helped by God to cause me to believe..

God is the only one who prepares the heart to believe in him! No amount of back and forth opinions or truths, as we see truth, will change until God removes the veil..

That's my/the truth and I'm sticking to it.

[Tosh]

I was raised UU and love my church and religion we are encouraged to search for our own meaning and our own truths and support others in their searches and in whatever they believe. At this point I'd say I'm agnostic, I tried for years to convince myself to believe in "God" (the Christian god), and felt badly that I couldn't make myself believe it. So now I really don't know! I like discussing and listening to others talk about it though

Hello, welcome to the God thread.

Can you tell me what UU stands for ?

Do not feel bad about thinking in a straight line, if people like you did not question things then we would still be dancing for rain.

I have a lot of time for some Christian values, however the more one studies the evolution of morality one discovers they are mostly universal values that have been around for thousands of years.

The reason people like a lot of the preachings of Jesus is precisely because they are universal.

I used to be an agnostic but I have studied history, religion, biology and evolutionary psychology for 5 years, and in my mind the God of Abraham does not exist.