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Post by mslinda on Jan 8, 2011 9:35:46 GMT -5
that is my spouse...! I've been a long time lurker since 2007 and finally mustered the courage to sign on. Here is my dilemma- been married over 20 years to a "fly by the seat of your pants" kinda guy. We have been extremely fortunate as to coming into a very significant inheritance (over 7 digits) several years back. Our home was paid off, all our debts as well as a great nest egg. Well that lasted a whole 2 years, spouse thought the money would never end and well, you know, a fool and his money.... He refused to listen to any advice and since it was money from his side of the family, I didn't fight him. I know, I really should have but hindsight is 20/20. I have now had to return to work after staying home for many years, have a mortgage and just basically back to square one. It is very difficult to deal with the resentment and bitterness I feel every morning I wake up to go to work and see all the bills piled up again. I've been hanging on for the children but I just don't feel secure with him and am constantly worried about retirement and if he gets another hairbrained idea. Oh we also had trust accounts set up for the kids and that's also gone... Should I stick this out or move on for my sanity? The best part is he doesn't think he did anything reckless. To him, he's just one of the many that lost their .... in the real estate crash.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jan 8, 2011 10:37:27 GMT -5
You say you didn't fight him about spending this inheritance. Is there anything you have done to try to get him to change? In a lot of cases you really can't change the person, and if you are truly miserable and don't want to fight then don't stay just for the kids, IMO. But if you aren't ready to give up, see if you can get him to go talk to a counselor, financial planner, go to Ramsey's Financial Peace University, something that might give him a kick in the pants to see that he's destroying his family and his future.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 8, 2011 10:42:10 GMT -5
Should I stick this out or move on for my sanity? No one can really answer that one for you. How old are your children? FWIW, since it was inherited from his side of the family, there is little you could have done anyway. Somehow you need to focus on YOUR future, but whether you can do that with a financial albatross is a very tough question.
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Post by mslinda on Jan 8, 2011 10:44:28 GMT -5
Quote Queen, thanks for replying. I value your opinion since I've been following you and many of the other posters on Your Money for awhile. I;ve already approached him on the Dave Ramsey course but he's your Type A personality so that would equate to being a failure and requiring someone's help. No go...
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 8, 2011 11:00:11 GMT -5
A compulsive gambler will not be able to see himself as a gambler, the next 'sure thing' is always just around the corner. Maybe you can place some Gamblers Anonymous info where it will be seen (but not pushed). But like any compulsion - food, alcohol, drugs - the affected one is the one who must make the decision to recover. www.gamblersanonymous.org/20questions.html
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The J
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Post by The J on Jan 8, 2011 13:15:47 GMT -5
Either he's willing to work on the situation or he isn't. If he's willing to work on it, then you guys need to figure out how. If he's not willing to work on it, then you need to decide if you're willing to stay with him, despite it.
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Post by robbase on Jan 8, 2011 13:58:40 GMT -5
Our home was paid off, all our debts as well as a great nest egg. Well that lasted a whole 2 years, spouse thought the money would never end and well, you know, a
and since it was money from his side of the family, I didn't fight him.
Oh we also had trust accounts set up for the kids and that's also gone...
I am confused, if you didn't "fight" him since it was money from his side of the family, how did you lose the nest egg, kids trust accounts, etc.? Did those things come from the money from his side of the family too? If not, than you should have stepped in sooner and you are partially / equally to blame as well
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on Jan 8, 2011 14:36:54 GMT -5
why are you doing this now?? the time to act was before he lost everything. Right after he got the money sitting down with a financial planner.
The kids are only better off if you are willing to pretend everything is "okay" if not then children are better without constant even if it is quiet, animosity/tension in a house.
You DO realize that if you leave him you will have to work more/harder. The part that frightens me the most is that you think he was supposed to support you in the entirety and now you object to having to work. Does he object to having to have supported you? How much of the money did you spend?? Can you get him on board with IRA accts-for both of you-then if you do leave at least you have something to take-because I don't see this lasting after the last kid is out of the house without serious reconsideration.
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greenstone
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Post by greenstone on Jan 8, 2011 14:44:43 GMT -5
Like you, I was a long-term lurker and rare poster on the other site, but am jumping into the fray here.
I am sorry you are in this position, watching someone squander a 7-figure inheritence would be unimaginably difficult. I would agree with others that it is unlikely that your husband will ever change his financial ways enough to make you feel secure. If you want to remain with him and have a life and raise your children together, can you explain to him that you need to financially separate from him? As a long term reader of YM, you must have seen the numerous threads on couples who have separate finances and most say they do it because it brings peace and harmony to the relationship because they are not worried about the others spending. Is your husband responsible enough that he would pay his share of the monthly living expenses, and then could fritter away what was left of "his" money? Yes, there still might be some resentment because you would be the only saving for your future, but at least you would have a better sense of security. Could you set up and both contribute to education funds for the children that can only be accessed with both your signatures? Tell him upfront that come hell or high water, the answer is no, so don't bother asking. If he isn't willing to make these changes to keep his family intact, then you have your answer as to whether or not you should stay.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 8, 2011 14:49:15 GMT -5
OMG, you poor thing. How awful for you. Why does this happen to good people? That other's bad choices always hurt the innocent along with the guilty. So wrong but so common. How old are your kids? Need more info for others to help. Also, think of going to WIR.
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Jan 8, 2011 15:16:20 GMT -5
As a long time lurker, realize that some posters will be obsessed with telling you that it's your fault, that you should have lived your life differently, etc. Ignore those people, don't reply to them. They've already ignored, in your original post, that your DH refused to listen to your advice. Start responding to them and you will end up spending more time justifying past actions than figuring out how to deal with today's reality.
I always liked Dear Abby's (or was it Ann Lander's) favorite question. Are you better with him or without him? Think through all the financial issues. But also think through all the non-financial issues. Does he make you feel loved and needed? Is in involved in the lives of your children? What would your life be like as a single Mom? Can you financially separate from your husband while still being married to him? Is that an option? Or would he financially sabotage you? Can he live within a budget?
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jan 8, 2011 15:28:01 GMT -5
Hang on hang on, not so fast. You're here now, and the past can't be changed, it can only be learned from.
If I'm understanding the OP right, you had a mortgage, and CCs debt. You got a 7 figure inheritance from his side of the family, paid off debt and mortgage, put away trusts, and got into rentals or other money making activities. You quit your job and let your husband be the breadwinner. Either he was actually making money, or he was actually using the inheritance (then the trusts, then a mortgage, and then more CCs) to fund your lifestyle.
Sounds like he never actually changed his ways, there just happened to be enough money to sustain them, until there wasn't.
So what is he doing now? If the inheritance is all gone, is he using new debts to 'turn things around'? Is he working? What are your respective earning potentials.
How you proceed depends on what you think will get you the most success. If you have an income problem (ie: what comes in is simply not covering what it costs to live) then you have to figure out how to increase that. If you have a spending problem, then that needs to get under control. Success usually happens the quickest with a combination of both approaches.
The usual advice involves one or more of the following: Keep a spending journal and track every penny, learn how to save money on the things you normally buy (coupons, brew own coffee, conserve utilities, drive smarter...).
Others are focusing on the possibility that your spouse is not financially compatible with you right now, and there needs to be some harsh tough love to get things straightened out. You have to make some decisions first about just how far you are willing to go to make that happen.
It is unlikely you can "change him", but you can change how you react and what you will accept, which in turn may cause him to change how he treats you and the family.
You can also post a line by line account of what comes in and what goes out, and people here can help you find ways to save. The usual culprits are things like overpaying for a tv/internet/phone package with premium everything, or having an enormous cell phone bill, or too much eating out. Car payments are also a big drain.
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Post by cheapcat on Jan 8, 2011 16:47:30 GMT -5
A long term friend has a similar problem. Her husband constantly spends more than he earns, maxing out credit cards & getting new ones. She didn't find out about this until a year after they were married, but things have continually gotten worse. He could barely make the minimum payments on his CC so they rolled everything into a $38,000 2nd mortgage, & he swore he would never run up CC again. I thought they were doing better, but the other night she told me that he has maxed out 4 more CC. She thinks he might have to declare bankruptcy on his CC & worries about how that will affect her, but isn't doing anything about it. Don't hold out any hope that your DH will change. Separate your financial lives as much as possible. If he wouldn't let you have any say on how he blew through over $1,000,000, he should have no say on how you spend your paycheck. Set up your own retirement account through work & put away as much as you can. Split shared living expenses like the mortgage & utilities & keep any CC accounts separate. If he is an authorized user on any of your CC, have him taken off. Have him remove you from any joint CC, though this might not help if you live in a community property state. You really need to go to individual counseling & marriage counseling to work through this.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 8, 2011 17:31:43 GMT -5
Cheapcat gave you very good advice if you decide that you are going to stay with the financial train wreck. I just wanted to add - FIND OUT WHETHER YOU ARE in a COMMUNITY PROPERTY state!!!. Because, if you are, then you can be held liable for any and all debt he runs up - with out without your signature or even knowledge. If you are in a CP state, you need to see an attorney to find out how to protect your financial future from being onboard the wreck.
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motherto2
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Post by motherto2 on Jan 8, 2011 17:43:25 GMT -5
I'm sorryto hear about the lost money and opportunities. I'm sure things are difficult right now, but if you persevere, it can get better. Alot of good advice here, but ultimately you have decide if you can keep investing in this relationship. I understand your bitterness, but some questions you need to ask yourself. Is your DH helping out by getting a job and bringing in money or is he in total denial of your circumstances? What kind of income were you and DH capable of bringing in prior to the inheritance? Can you go back to that if it was a decent living? Does he help out around the house and with the kids, or are you left holding those bags also? Most importantly, if he is unwilling or unable to change, can you accept that and continue in this relationship. When I had to make the hard decision to separate from my ex, (he was the one unhappy and had other "interests", but our history made it impossible for him to leave so he wouldn't be the one at fault). I went through a period of thinking I only had to wait another 10 years and the kids would be out of school and then I could leave, but then it dawned on me that I wasn't being fair to myself, and ultimately the kids (he refused counseling). Fast forward, 10 years later, both of my kids realize they were so much better off not living with their father for so many reasons. You need to think short term, but you also need to think about your decision (whatever it ends up being) in the long term.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jan 8, 2011 20:09:11 GMT -5
Do you and your husband communicate well? Do you have an idea what he is thinking? Is this financial ignorance, or selfishness, or something else entirely?
My ex-husband could not and still can not handle money. He overspends. He doesn't grasp that you can't get ahead while paying obscene amounts of interest. So there is that, but also when we were married, he was not part of our team. He thought of himself and what he wanted, not about his wife or children.
What is your husband's point of view? Is he selfish? If so, there's nothing you can do about that. Is he ignorant about how to handle money? That can be fixed. Does he realize he had financial security for himself and his family and he threw it away via mismanagement? Or is he in denial?
I am sorry for your troubles.
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pushingit
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Post by pushingit on Jan 8, 2011 20:59:14 GMT -5
Who are you people and what have you done with the real YM'ers?
All I can read in this post was "I had it great. No job, Bills paid, the sweet life. Then my husband's money ran out so now I want to leave because paying my own way sucks."
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jan 8, 2011 23:36:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry. That's a rough situation.
I think, barring your husband experiencing a "come to jesus" moment, you're going to have to accept that staying in your marriage means no financial security. Take some time and think about it. It's not the end of the world that you have to work now, but consider carefully: will you be able to build enough savings to retire? Does that answer change for divorced vs. married?
Question: how did your husband obtain a new mortgage on your paid-off house? Did you not have to sign off on that? It sounds like you're very frustrated because your husband is excluding you from what should be family financial decisions. It's a little hard to tell what the ratio of steamrolling over you/extracting reluctant consent from you/totally ignoring your input is from the detail you've given, though. I'd recommend counseling, preferably for both of you but definitely for you so you can get some clarity and perspective. Assuming your husband refuses couples counseling, a meeting with a fee-only financial planner might be a little more palatable--and might open his eyes to reality a little bit.
Finally, I second both cheapcat and gardeninggrandma--FIRST, absolutely find out if you're in a community property state! If not, and you decide to stay married, then you should follow cheapcat's advice to protect yourself as best you can. If you're in a community property state, then while married, he is equal owner of anything you earn and you are equally liable for any debts he incurs (and vice versa).
What did he spend all the money on? (Just nosy.)
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greyscience5
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Post by greyscience5 on Jan 9, 2011 0:54:29 GMT -5
Who are you people and what have you done with the real YM'ers?
Hahaha. I too was wondering why everyone was being so compassionate and nice all of the sudden. Especially without knowing a lot of the details.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 1:07:05 GMT -5
I will be honest.
a) It was his money, so you had no say in how he spent it legally. I understand how it would be frustrating to watch him spend it all but what can you do.
b) How can you resent him for having to carry your share of the financial burden? I mean most wives now days have to work just like you do. Remember, it wasn't your money to begin with, you shouldn't have counted on it.
c) I am going to go with WeWillBackGowron on the idea that your husband never changed, you guys just got lucky and received a nice chunk of money. His income remained the same but you guys continued spending like the money will last forever never re-adjusting your expenses.
d) Isn't the house under both your names? How did he re-mortgage it without your signature? If you did agree to it, you are as guilty... that should have been one of the major red flags that you guys were in trouble.
e) Did he finally see the light now that all the money is gone? Is he on the same page as you?
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 9, 2011 2:33:56 GMT -5
The part that bothers me is taking trust funds set up for the children. I guess he needed the money after putting it in but that just seems wrong if he had told them about it.
You know him so you should know what he was thinking. If he was selfish entirely and still being that way with earned money I would divorce him. If he was merely foolish and bought a bunch of real estate that he couldn't rent out and lost it all so had to mortgage the house and take the trust funds I would feel sorry for him knowing he was really sorry.
If you still respect him at all or love him even if you can't respect him you might financially divorce him but still sleep in the same room. Setting up two households is expensive so if you can continue to live together it will save money. If you are in a community property state and he is a selfish jerk divorce him. If not just stop combining finances. Pay the bills you care about or a share of all the bills.
I have a rather selfish live in boyfriend, he is generous but thinks of himself first. I asked what he would do if he won mega millions and it was all what he wanted for himself land and a larger boat. My first thoughts were gifting people money that I cared about and funding trust funds for him and other people. It just doesn't dawn on him to take care of other people as a first thought. He inherited and didn't tell me how much sure I would have wanted some and spent it all immediately on a new truck. So we don't talk about money, if he overdrafts a bank account and I get the mail I just say you got a letter from the bank and don't try to help. I save for retirement, own the house and live my life my way then he pays me a set amount each week. As long as he pays we don't have words but we don't have the same money style and never have arguments. I like having him around so don't send him away for being bad with money.
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so1970
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Post by so1970 on Jan 9, 2011 3:57:37 GMT -5
a) It was his money, so you had no say in how he spent it legally. I understand how it would be frustrating to watch him spend it all but what can you do.
i agree with this statement, but would like to ask ,how was life before the extra money came into the picture? if the money had never showed up would you have still quit your job? it sounds like there has been a tough 2 year period that has resulted in you having to return to work and you are bitter. if you think about it you may realise that you both contributed to this delima.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 9, 2011 8:18:27 GMT -5
Op, where are you?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 9, 2011 9:16:39 GMT -5
People that don't know how to attain a million dollars, have no idea how to manage / keep it if they somehow end up with it.
When you say "we", I assume you mean it was from his side of the family-- otherwise I would also assume that you would have stood up for yourself.
You say YOU have gone back to work- has HE gone back to work?
Anyway the bottom line for me is that I'm all about forgiving people for making mistakes. It's kinda hard to forgive someone that won't acknowledge and own up to a mistake, however. You have to find a way to sit him down and have a little come to Jesus talk with him about the absolute financial trainwreck he presided over. At the very least he needs to acknowledge that he made some major mistakes.
I think you both need to get into marital counseling and hopefully that includes financial counselling from someone who is NOT SELLING YOU INVESTMENTS, and who has already been successful themselves.
Otherwise, it's going to be tough to make this work. In fact, short of him owning up to his mistakes and taking some responsibility, I'd say you're going to have to leave for more than your sanity-- you're going to have to try to escape with your life. The fact of the matter is that it's highly unlikely you'll see any social security or medicare and you have ZERO financial security and stability right now. Getting your financial house in order has got to be top priority for you both right now.
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Urban Chicago
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Post by Urban Chicago on Jan 10, 2011 12:02:49 GMT -5
Inheritances are tough because they can go to just one half of a couple.
If he is willing to sit down and talk about this, I'd be asking him how whoever left him the money would have wanted it to be spent. I'll bet they did not want to see it all blown in the first 2 years! I know it's too late for the inheritance now but it may be a wake-up call for your husband. You may also want to discuss how your husband's relative amassed that much money in the first place and how to replicate the achievement.
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yhw
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Post by yhw on Jan 10, 2011 12:29:30 GMT -5
There is sooooo much more to this story. But there is no doubt you both you need to be on the same page. Start communicating! What are your short term and long term goals? What are your goals for your children, retirement?
Your DH does sound short-sighted and immature. However you say "you didn't fight it" . I think that actually translates to : " I went along for the ride.. it was really, really fun, but now we're in trouble financially and I want someone to blame".
Without knowing more of the story, I think you're both to blame, and you both need to fix it. Together. So that's where you start: Finding out what paths you both want to go on, and if you want to go down them Together.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jan 10, 2011 12:49:21 GMT -5
...:::"I'd be asking him how whoever left him the money would have wanted it to be spent.":::...
That question could go either way. It could work in your favor for its shame value (as you said, it was to provide a good future, not get blown on get-rich-quick schemes). It could also backfire, because he might just say "it was for whatever I wanted to do with it".
I also suspect that at the time (if he was indeed buying rentals) the husband didn't think he was mis-managing the money. He probably thought that RE was on sale (if the purchases were in 2008, such was a reasonable viewpoint). Hell I can remember Paul himself also posting about how the greatest RE fortunes in recent history were going to be made from purchases during this bust.
As to whether she used to work or not, that is not clear. From the OP:
...:::"I have now had to return to work after staying home for many years":::...
If the millions only lasted 2 years, I'd hardly call that "many". If they've been married for 20 years, she could very well have been a SAHM out of mutual decision long before the inheritance. So I'm not so sure that they got the inheritance and she quit her job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2011 20:17:59 GMT -5
There is definitely more to the story... but OP is as much to blame for the situation as her husband.
You cannot be going along for the ride while all is good and dandy and only start complaining when things start going south.
I feel you should have raised your voice and be heard when the following happen: a) Credit card debt adding up b) having to take on more loans c) having to mortgage to house again
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Post by mslinda on Jan 11, 2011 17:44:09 GMT -5
Thanks for all the replies/advice. Some additional info to clear things up- I had been a SAHM prior to receiving the inheritance. DH had always been employed and still is. The children are now teenagers and close to entering college. In the beginning, we actually did visit with a financial adviser and conservatively invested half the money. I figured that was it... however his ego was not satisfied with those returns and got caught up in the whole real estate boom. As others have mentioned, I am at fault since it was my family's financial future at stake as well. And I take complete responsibility now there was no joy ride. One day DH comes home and announces his new investments. In a manner of months, it all went down hill. After that, I did put my foot down but the major damage had already been done. DH won't ever agree to any financial counseling. He has admitted that he made a huge mistake and I pity him because his parents intentions were for a secure financial future for his family. The scary part I deal with is will he do this again because it is in his nature to take risks and ask questions later. He is drawn to anything that will make him a quick buck even if it means losing.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 11, 2011 17:46:07 GMT -5
Then you need to protect yourself and your children. Making bad investments can happen to anyone, not learning from them is serious.
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