What to do when reason is not on the same page as

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2011 7:01:45 GMT -5 qofcc said:

We talked about it last night and again tonight, so far we have decided to wait because we both want to wait. But yes if it really means so much to her that in a few weeks/months she still can't forget about it and her hormones are kicking we might need to reconsider our plan and maybe change course.

If you guys are both on board with waiting 3 years, then maybe you can keep her mind focused on that goal by doing a countdown and having some milestones. Kind of like a long engagement before planning a wedding where you get to think about every detail and get excited about it. If you talk to her about your budget, start calling things like "credit card payment soon to be allocated to daycare" or "car payment soon to be allocated to diapers & formula", etc. Let her daydream about the things she wants to do and have and show her what they cost and let her start saving for those things. Let her think about where the 3 of you want to be living with a baby and what that might cost. Let her price out a working wardrobe of maternity clothes and start saving up for that. Do some couple things that would be difficult to do with a baby around and mention that you are doing this now because after you have a family it will be a long time before you can do it again, so both of you get to enjoy the waiting period. Maybe even label her birth control packets 36, 35, 34, etc. Let her know you're just as excited to have a baby as she is, you just want it to start happening after you guys accomplish certain goals. Maybe that will help get her on board with more of your goals.

Thank you maybe that will help. We no longer used birth controls because all 3 she tried before she had some reaction too:
- weight gain
- headaches
- mood swings
- 2 False positive pregnancy test
- boobs got bigger (I loved that one, she hated it)
- etc.

So now we just used condoms. And this morning she said "you'll just pull out" . Yeah did not happen, her cousin has 3 kids thanks to the pull out method, my brother is a father at 21 thanks to the pull out method. I DO NOT believe in the pull out method and my wife knows it.

So we talked about it and she started how 29 is old. How about 27 making some good arguments about we could make it work:
- If I get another promotion aka more money we will be done paying our debt sooner
- If she gets a promotion, making more money

I Said no not happening, so she paused it back to 28: How about 28 using the same arguments. with possible promotions (and fingers crossed no job losses) we could make it work.

I told her give me two years and we will talk about it again when we both 28 (April-May 2013) and decide then if we are ready.

As for the trips, we are doing a road trip to Niagara falls in August and in September 6th-11 we are going to Mexico.

I think doing our debt payment planning as future baby expenses money may work for her because she loves talking about how she would design the baby room, shopping for baby clothes, etc. So showing her how if we stick to the debt payment will allow us more money for the future babies might make her more willing to stick to a plan and curb her desire.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2011 7:01:45 GMT -5 qofcc said:

Let her know you're just as excited to have a baby as she is, you just want it to start happening after you guys accomplish certain goals. Maybe that will help get her on board with more of your goals.

I was thinking about that, too. You've mentioned how much she loves to shop, which doesn't help when you're trying to pay down debt. Your two big priorities before having kids seem to be her advanced degree and reducing debt. You can't do much to change the timing of the first, but the less she shops, the more you have to pay off debt. Maybe you can motivate her to save money by looking ahead at her bigger goals.


ETA: Oops- we were thinking/posting the same thing at the same time!

[qofcc]

So now we just used condoms

ok, so label the condom boxes... only 1000 more to go honey before we start trying for real... practice makes perfect

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2011 7:41:13 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 9, 2011 7:01:45 GMT -5 qofcc said:

Let her know you're just as excited to have a baby as she is, you just want it to start happening after you guys accomplish certain goals. Maybe that will help get her on board with more of your goals.

I was thinking about that, too. You've mentioned how much she loves to shop, which doesn't help when you're trying to pay down debt. Your two big priorities before having kids seem to be her advanced degree and reducing debt. You can't do much to change the timing of the first, but the less she shops, the more you have to pay off debt. Maybe you can motivate her to save money by looking ahead at her bigger goals.


ETA: Oops- we were thinking/posting the same thing at the same time!

Lol it's ok, I appreciate it.

We both love kids, we both want them, I just want to be on a better financial footing before I have them

[telephus44]

I really want to advocate again here for giving her a concrete date - like qofcc was saying about numbering the pill packs/condom boxes, or whatever. If you have a 3 year time frame, say "Ok, we will start trying in July 2014." She's already trying to get an exact date by bring up age - she'll be 28 (or 29, or 31, ...) at a specific month and year. That also shows her that yes, you are serious and aren't just putting it off. If you are impatient about something, it's harder to deal with "some day" or "a couple of years." So if you've agreed on 3 years from now, just agree that it will be July 2014.

[swamp]

::So we talked about it and she started how 29 is old. How about 27 making some good arguments about we could make it work::

As an advanced maternal age mommy (36 when the first was born, 37 for the second) tell you're wife she's got plenty of time. I'm glad I didnt' have my kids in my 20's, I was in no way ready to be a parent. My life is not your life, and I understand that, but I'm just telling you that you can have babies later in life and everything works out fine.

[zibazinski]

I am also in my 50's but school were different then. Some schools were more affluent than others but all were safe and offered you basic education. Now you have to move to an expensive area to get good schools. That costs money. A LOT of money. I have friends in Birmingham schools (Detroit suburb) and their modest (and I am not kidding about modest) 3 bedroom, 3 kids and the boys share a room, JUST the taxes are 10k a year. They would have liked to finish the basement to add more living space and another bedroom/bathroom but their taxes would have gone up. A LOT. Even though their home value has decreased, their taxes haven't and there are always those millages that get passed even though no one says they vote for the inceases. So C is right that they need to have their ducks in a row money wise. No way Mrs. C is going to work after baby, only Mr. C thinks that and she will pop another out asap so it is best for them to have ducks in a row and just using condoms is not a good idea btw. Not enough protection. Soak those condoms in a spermicide.

[Deleted]

I have no business chiming in on this thread since I don't have kids or plans to have kids, but that has never stopped me before...

I think Snerdley is right to a degree. There will never be a perfect time to have kids, but some times are more right than others.

Since cawiau is frugal, it may be tough to pick an exact date right now: I suspect he won't want to waste that last box of condoms, so exact mileage may vary.

April/May 2013 sounds like a lovely time to start a family, and plenty of time for planning and dreaming in the interim. Best of luck to you both, cawiau.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2011 8:29:33 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

There is never a right time or good time to have kids. Sometimes you just have to jump in. Life has a way of working out.

Exactly. Could we have waited until DH got a librarian job to get PG? Sure! Could we have waited until DH's wage freeze was over? Yes! But we can do it now, so why wait until things are perfect? Plus we want to have 2-3 kids and my baby shop is closing in 6.5 years (when I hit 35).

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Could we have waited until DH got a librarian job to get PG? Sure! Could we have waited until DH's wage freeze was over? Yes! But we can do it now, so why wait until things are perfect?

The difference is that the OP's wife has $100K in student loans, at a payment of $1000/mo. So her student loans are taking any breathing space that they could possibly have in their budget, when combined with their other expenses.

[midjd]

Carl, I want to warn you...if you are solely relying on condoms you may become a parent sooner than you think .

I also had awful problems w/hormonal BC, but have had the Paragard IUD for about 4 years now and it's great. It is good for 10 yrs but you can remove it whenever & start trying immediately. And that way you can give her an exact date ("you'll take your IUD out in April 2013")... There are other non-hormonal options out there if an IUD won't work. But if I were opposed to having kids immediately, I wouldn't be depending on condoms alone!

[daylight]

As much as I would be pretty excited if I used qofcc's method, Mrs. C. did not strike me as a similar type of person. Then again, you have to start somewhere to show the advantages of not succumbing to instant gratification.

[zibazinski]

No kidding. Watch for pin pricks in those condoms. I'd keep them someplace non accessible to anyone else but you, Mr. C, or you are going to have a baby "accidently."

[giramomma]

Jul 9, 2011 8:28:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

::So we talked about it and she started how 29 is old. How about 27 making some good arguments about we could make it work::

As an advanced maternal age mommy (36 when the first was born, 37 for the second) tell you're wife she's got plenty of time. I'm glad I didnt' have my kids in my 20's, I was in no way ready to be a parent. My life is not your life, and I understand that, but I'm just telling you that you can have babies later in life and everything works out fine.

I had fertility issues at age 25, which worsen with age. I won't do IVF. But even less evasive fertility treatments are fairly expensive. We're looking at spending 4-6K to get knocked up. And I'm not quite advanced maternal age yet.

[moneymaven]

No kidding. Watch for pin pricks in those condoms. I'd keep them someplace non accessible to anyone else but you, Mr. C, or you are going to have a baby "accidently."

WOW. Really? If Carl really has no faith in his wife, why is he married to her? Why start a family with such a person?

DH and I took over 3 years to get on the same page about when to have children. We both wanted children, but at different times. First he wanted them, then backed off. Then I wanted them and backed off. Then, we both mutually agreed that the time was right to stop BC in May 2010. NO WAY would I EVER be dishonest with DH about taking BC to get pregnant.

I am certainly not saying women would never do this and despite the court of public opinion towards Carl's wife, I have to say I hope he has better judgment in character to choose a spouse who wouldn't do such things.

[swamp]

Jul 9, 2011 17:24:41 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 9, 2011 8:28:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

::So we talked about it and she started how 29 is old. How about 27 making some good arguments about we could make it work::

As an advanced maternal age mommy (36 when the first was born, 37 for the second) tell you're wife she's got plenty of time. I'm glad I didnt' have my kids in my 20's, I was in no way ready to be a parent. My life is not your life, and I understand that, but I'm just telling you that you can have babies later in life and everything works out fine.

I had fertility issues at age 25, which worsen with age. I won't do IVF. But even less evasive fertility treatments are fairly expensive. We're looking at spending 4-6K to get knocked up. And I'm not quite advanced maternal age yet.

I have polycystic ovarian disease, so I've got fertility issues too. It took 3 years for me to conceive and I needed some assistance, but my age didn't have anything to do with it, I would have had the same problems had I started at 25. I posted to show Carl that older women can and do have children, adn 30 isn't old.

[Deleted]

Yes, Swamp, but increased risk of Down's syndrome accompanies mothers in their late 30s. There are often increased fertility problems as well (although, as you explained, that wasn't your difficulty). I think 29 sounds great although I don't officially get a vote.

I got pregnant at 22 and had the baby at 23. It wasn't planned; I wasn't supposed to be able to get pregnant (no periods) so we weren't using ANY birth control. It wasn't perfect timing, trust me. We were building a new house, and I promptly got fired by the private school I was working for (it was summer) since it was "easier" to hire teachers for a full year than to find qualified subs. Fortunately, I got unemployment for almost the entire 9 months (recession back then as well). My OB called the first child a miracle; when I promptly got pregnant with the second within two months of "trying," we decided to preclude further "Acts of God."

My point is that having kids when you are younger is also awesome. I wasn't a teen mom. I graduated from college at age 20 and had already taught two years. My kids were fairly close together in age so I didn't have to do babyhood twice as long. I am not a baby person. I love them three and up. I got a divorce at age 47 or 48 . . . my daughter was in pharmacy school and my son was past his first year of college. It didn't eliminate the hurt, but it alleviated it. My daughter once thanked me for giving her a "normal" childhood because I had tried to divorce my ex when she was in fifth grade and caved to her tears. It helped that he wasn't a bad guy.

So Carl, set your goals but also figure out how old you might want to be when the kids (and there will be at least two, I'm sure) are out of the house. Sometimes it helps to work backwards.

[midjd]

I am certainly not saying women would never do this and despite the court of public opinion towards Carl's wife, I have to say I hope he has better judgment in character to choose a spouse who wouldn't do such things.

I don't think she'd do that either (though hormones do some crazy, irrational things to otherwise normal people). But even without pinpricks, condoms are not super-reliable... the failure rate with typical use is something like 24%, 10% with "perfect" use.

[zibazinski]

The pressure she is getting and the feelings she is having plus she doesn't like her boss. One of those is enough to push you over but all 3?

[telephus44]

I don't think she'd actually poke holes in the condoms - I suspect that cawiau is a better judge of character than that! But I have wondered if that's part of the reason they use condoms - as far as I know, most men would prefer not to wear them, but it does give HIM control over the BC - I mean, he's not going to "forget" to put one on if he doesn't want kids yet. Note that she told him to "just pull out" this morning..

[muttleynfelix]

Jul 9, 2011 6:43:19 GMT -5 achelois said:

I am 59, so I suppose things have changed a lot since I was young and having children. I was one of seven children my parents had, so I was used to caring for little ones. We were not rich, so not focused on "nice things", although we had what we needed--decent clothes(although not tons of them) and decent food and a rain tight roof over our heads.

When I had my kids, we incorporated them rather seamlessly into our lives without a lot of the fuss, muss and bother that seems to go on these days. I don't remember their having been all that expensive--at least not until they became teens :-).

I sometimes think people make it harder on them selves than it has to be.

Maybe when I'm 59, I will say that we incorported DS seemlessly into our lives. But from my perspective with a 17 month old, it has been a very very difficult transition emotionally from being me and DH to being me, DH and DS. Financially it has had some difficulties too, but much more emotional. I still don't feel I have this whole working mom thing down.

[achelois]

I guess I was more used to it having come from a large family myself; Whenever a new kid came along you just moved over a bit and made room. I always had worked. I just didn't find it that hard. I will say that I was very organized at that time--slacked off a bit now:-)--and was pretty energetic.

We did not upgrade our house or our car, I used cloth diapers, breast fed and pureed stuff in the blender. Famiy donated a crib that was passed around whenever anyone needed it We raised most of our own food anyway, so not much extra expense.

I had a great daycare provider who ended up being with the boys for 12 years; she had boys the same ages as mine and they were close. I was very fortunate in that respect. My care provider kept the boys in her home, so I dropped them off before work and picked
them up after.

What emotional difficulties are you having? Hope it will work out.

Eta:when I was pregnant with my younger son, I was attending classes at night for electives for nursing school. I went on Wednesday nights at the time. Went one Wednesday, had the baby the Saturday after that and was back in class the next Wednesday. Organization. . The instructor told me that he feared I would give birth in class. ;D

[swamp]

I was an emotional wreck for a few years. 2 kids in quick succession, second one colicky, and trying to work. It was ugly. I just started feeling like myself last year.

[zibazinski]

Everyone is different but C wants to be out of debt, somewhat, and more settled as to where they are going to live. Those are worthy goals. Mrs. C is what? 25? Her eggs are more than viable.

[Deleted]

- LOL at the comment about my wife witholding sex to get what she wants. She tried that before and she caved in first lol. My wife loves/wants sex as much as I do, if not more sometimes.

- Also my wife maybe a lot of things but her honesty/integrity will never be questioned. She will never try to trick me into being her baby daddy.

- We did the condoms until about 5-6 years ago when she went on the pill. For 4 years or so she tried different ones and there was always something like I mentioned above. She wanted to get on the IUD but her last ob/gyn would not do it saying something about she would have prefered that my wife had 1 child first. So we started to use condoms again since last year. Since she has a new ob/gyn (we moved) I will ask her to ask about it again.

[zibazinski]

There's a LOT of stuff out there. One of my DD's friends went military right after HS and got Norplant because it isn't always easy to be on the pill or other forms when actively serving. That was 6 years ago, she is married now and they want a child. Her doctor says it'll just naturally wear off so they are just waiting and saving for that. But that is a longer term thing, more like 5 years so not for you. Probably would have been good for when you were first married. I would be very careful with just condoms, though.

[midjd]

She wanted to get on the IUD but her last ob/gyn would not do it saying something about she would have prefered that my wife had 1 child first.

Mine said the same thing... but when I moved to NY and started using a different one, she said that it was quite a bit easier to insert them into women who have had children, so most who don't want to deal with the hassle will just say no. If you haven't had kids, they will give you misoprostol (sp?) which opens the cervix. It's not a pleasant procedure, but more than worth it for 4 years of not having to worry about BC

She should definitely ask her new OB/GYN about it. I think my history of problems with hormonal BC is what convinced mine the IUD was a good idea - sounds like your wife is in the same boat.

[gusitarenker]

I second the Paraguard! I got it after I had DS, and I love it. I know my doctor prefers that you have a child to get it, but he is willing to do insertion for women who haven't had children as well.

[Deleted]

Thanks everyone, I will ask her to ask her new ob/gyn about the different options out there.

[Deleted]

If she told her mom she could have a baby now, if only it wasn't for those school loans... my guess is they would be paid off by next week.

Swamp... not everyone has forever.... my mom tried to have babies again at 38-40... and could NOT sustain a pregnancy... don't know when exactly she 'passed the threshold'... but not everyone finds it easy later.

Natural methods do not have to be so crude as 'pulling out' ... Get a book on the Billings Method... I got pregnant on the pill and with a condom... We've been using natural for a decade now and no more babies... It also helps for later... once she knows her body and the days to avoid having sex... later she'll know exactly which ones she should be doing it... without expensive ovulation kits...