Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 17, 2011 14:02:25 GMT -5
Dark, she's doing what she knows. Maybe stepping outside that path is too scary or something. Maybe. All I know is that we both went through the same shit as kids. I swore that I'd NEVER raise my kids like that. I don't care what I have to do to avoid it, I'll do it. My sister went through the same thing, and chose to repeat the cycle. It's not just the job though, it's the guy too. If you don't want to raise kids with an abusive waste of flesh you can't date losers. I mean, it's not like she didn't have plenty of people around that she could look at to learn that lesson, yanno? To get this thread back on topic, we have Dox, who apparently refuses to work a job that pays decently and wants a man to support her and her kids in a fairly affluent lifestyle. Not really my dream, but whatever. Then she chooses to date and procreate with guys that don't make any money. Well no wonder you aren't happy, you're looking for a certain lifestyle from guys that don't earn enough to provide it. It'll never work. If you want to be kept 50's style housewife you have to date guys that make enough to afford that lifestyle. It's not rocket science.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Jun 17, 2011 14:11:33 GMT -5
I just don't get why girls choose the lifestyle. Hell, my sister did. Almost every time I talk to my mom she wonders why my sister spent her whole life watching my mom struggle, then went out and made all the same mistakes. I'd love to be able to explain it, but I just can't.
Still trying to figure it out myself, but could it be that they start out determined to do better than mom did and thinking they can (like all teenagers think they know more than their parents), but since they weren't part of a stable family growing up and didn't witness examples of good relationships, they don't have the sophistication to recognize the signs they are supposed to be looking for and the things to avoid? And maybe they don't have access to (or think they're not good enough to attract) the type of guy they should be looking for? Or they were hungry for a stable family life growing up and anxious to escape their disappointing home life and create a better one as an adult, but they don't have the skills to succeed at it, so they end up failing?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 17, 2011 14:15:29 GMT -5
I wonder the same thing about people who were molested as children and go on to become molesters. Why would you want to hurt children when you know firsthand how it feels? Is it some perverse form of paying it forward?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 17, 2011 14:16:59 GMT -5
Girls from that kind of family should have Norplant injected so they at least finish HS without getting knocked up. I have never understood why welfare recipients are not forced to get BC in order to recieve welfare. You can't feed what you have, then you aren't having anymore on taxpayer nickel.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 17, 2011 14:22:21 GMT -5
Still trying to figure it out myself, but could it be that they start out determined to do better than mom did and thinking they can (like all teenagers think they know more than their parents), but since they weren't part of a stable family growing up and didn't witness examples of good relationships, they don't have the sophistication to recognize the signs they are supposed to be looking for and the things to avoid? I'll give you not having many healthy relationships to use as models, but if she doesn't know the signs of things she should be avoiding she obviously wasn't paying attention growing up. I'm not saying I can spot an abusive drunk immediately from fifty yards or anything, but I did get to see first hand all the signs of that sort of thing over, and over, and over growing up, so did she. Maybe she did sub consciously feel that she deserved that, or couldn't get better, or whatever, but if she was honestly surprised the first time her douche of an ex got abusive she's a moron. I could tell there was something off about the guy when we met during our freshman year of high school.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 17, 2011 14:27:10 GMT -5
Moms and other family members sabotage their daughters in that environment. Some of my friends escaped their upbringing and they still get "uppity" comments and jealous snide remarks. Doesn't stop any of them from having their hand out, though. Plus, if you are a decently raised man, do you or your family wish to marry into trash?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 17, 2011 14:34:24 GMT -5
Plus, if you are a decently raised man, do you or your family wish to marry into trash? It's been my experience that kids from that environment either repeat the cycle, or are super motivated to avoid it all costs. I think it's part of the reason you see so many self made millionaires from really humble upbringings. The crappy childhood is the catalyst that provides the drive necessary to pull yourself up so far. The thing is, you can pretty much tell which kids are which by the age of 15 or 16. You might have a couple that get into drugs or gangs or something late, but for the most part you can tell which kids are going to escape and which ones aren't fairly early. So, a girl who wanted to escape doesn't have to find a middle class guy that's been decently raised, they just have to date the guys raised the same way they were that are going to work their way out of it, and avoid the ones that are on the path of repeating the cycle.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 17, 2011 14:37:35 GMT -5
I think it's easier said than done... and while it's frustrating to watch someone go down that path, I have to tell myself "There but for the grace of God..." My (channeling Molly here) wonderful DH and I dated throughout junior high and high school. I then dumped him for a borderline sociopath who is exactly like my dad. I was a smart kid - why did I do that? I don't know. Luckily I saw the light a couple of years later and my DH was willing to give me a second chance But I could have easily ended up exactly like my mom - even though from an early age, I swore I'd never be "dumb enough" to let that happen to me.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 14:50:36 GMT -5
Mid- diesel is where the money is. My ex does work on yachts, trucks, ships, anything with a diesel engine, and he specializes in cummins motors.
I like the traditional office job, as opposed to working on cars for a living. I was not being sexist, and I have no problems with women mechanics. Its just not for me. I like wearing jewelry to work and not grease.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 17, 2011 14:50:59 GMT -5
Oh... Should I be apologizing for being an engineer? *rolls eyes* I should probably double apologize since my DH stays home with DS and I'm an engineer.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 14:53:31 GMT -5
Dark, your not even close to pegging my upbringing.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 14:56:28 GMT -5
Swasat, my brother and ex work for the same company. My brother is my exes boss. My brother is not the owner. They both make great money.
Oh and boats , ships, and container equipment at ports are worked on by mechanics, not engineers. My dad is a retired engineer.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 17, 2011 14:56:50 GMT -5
Mid- diesel is where the money is. My ex does work on yachts, trucks, ships, anything with a diesel engine, and he specializes in cummins motors. I like the traditional office job, as opposed to working on cars for a living. I was not being sexist, and I have no problems with women mechanics. Its just not for me. I like wearing jewelry to work and not grease. But could you do it for a year or so to fix your debt issues? Would your brother hire you and pay you more than you're making now? Is he closer to your house so you'd be able to cut the gas costs some more?
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Jun 17, 2011 14:59:29 GMT -5
Beth - that would require Dox to do something she doesn't "want" or "like" to do. If I've learned nothing else from all these threads by her and about her, she basically does whatever she wants to do despite great ideas from everyone else.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Jun 17, 2011 15:01:00 GMT -5
Sorry everyone - I'm getting very cynical about Dox. I don't believe she wants to change. And she seldom answers peoples questions except for one liners every once in a while - just enough to keep it going.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 15:03:02 GMT -5
Sroo, the $72 is a monthly average of all the months we have been Divorced. I do get more than that a month now, but I did not get cs when we first seperated until the divorce was final.
I get approx. 1/3 of the states guidelines as per our agreement, which is why it does not match his income.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 15:04:09 GMT -5
No i would not work for the same company as my brother.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 17, 2011 15:10:00 GMT -5
Just a thought. I'd go by the state guidelines as opposed to whatever you agreed upon for whatever reason. I don't think you have the right to waive cs anyway.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 17, 2011 15:11:36 GMT -5
Now I don't know where doxie lives or anything, but why, oh why, are we assuming that traditional female jobs have to be low paid? Or is it that doxie doesn't want to have a job with more responsibility?
I ask this because I started as a medical receptioninst. Later I became an admin at a manufacturing company (my desk was in the warehouse next to the line. I loved wearing jeans to work), but after 3 years of making ~13.50/hr and realizing there was no advancement, I left. I went to a much larger company- back in to health care (traditionally female) as an admin making almost $19/hr. I've been here six years, two promotions, and now I'm an office manager (traditional female role) making more than double what I started at. I'm not making what Dark does, but I make enough to be the sole earner in my family, own a home, have two paid for cars (one bought new and not cheap) and still afford to send DH to school paying cash out of pocket. Granted, I went back to school to get my MBA, and we didn't have the easiest path to get here, but if you're good at what you do and willing to work at the areas your not as good at, admin jobs can pay very well.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 17, 2011 15:12:06 GMT -5
No i would not work for the same company as my brother. lol. I could work with my younger brother but not my older one. And I don't think I could work with my younger sister but I could with my older one.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 17, 2011 15:12:56 GMT -5
Sorry everyone - I'm getting very cynical about Dox. I don't believe she wants to change. And she seldom answers peoples questions except for one liners every once in a while - just enough to keep it going. Change can be hard. And scary. And extremely worthwhile.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 15:13:21 GMT -5
You can't waive child support, but it can be an agreed upon figure. We have a great situation, with no conflict and I do not want to rock the boat by going back to court.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 15:17:06 GMT -5
Shen- i don't really think my salary is all that low. I think I make pretty good money for just having a hs education.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 17, 2011 15:17:41 GMT -5
Doxie, that's exactly what my mom said. She got the same amount in child support for 12 years (while my dad's salary more than doubled). And you know what? I wish she had had the courage to rock the boat. Maybe then my childhood, and my siblings' childhood wouldn't have been so shitty.
And you know what else? My dad ended up taking her back to court anyway. So she not only lost out on tens of thousands of dollars that could have supported us, she still had to face him in court, and had to pay an attorney $1500 to argue that my dad should be required to pay child support until my siblings are out of college.
You can avoid the issue, but you're not doing yourself (or your children) any favors.
Sorry if this is harsh, but I have literally heard the EXACT SAME WORDS coming out of my mom's mouth. And her children suffered because of it.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 17, 2011 15:28:50 GMT -5
Mid- my kids have less than some and more than others but I think they have plenty. I would even say my daughter is more on the spoiled side.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 17, 2011 15:31:26 GMT -5
I'm just saying, if I were $40K in consumer debt, I wouldn't be turning my nose up at increased child support payments.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 17, 2011 15:36:19 GMT -5
I don't think it is Doxie's EX's job to make up for her spending habits and her poor second marriage. She should have married an earner not a learner.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 17, 2011 15:37:26 GMT -5
Yes, but the child support guidelines are not based on the custodial parent's needs or spending habits - only the number of children x the noncustodial parent's income. For CS purposes, it doesn't matter if she's a miser or a spendthrift.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 17, 2011 15:39:52 GMT -5
Dark, your not even close to pegging my upbringing. Maybe not the upbringing, but the attitude seems exactly the same. Let's do a recap of your threads shall we? In the first one you complained about your husband not being willing to make more money. Then we got to hear about how you can't trust him with your kids, especially at his parents house, and how his family are all toothless hillbillies anyway. We've heard an endless barrage of things you aren't willing to cut or change about your lifestyle, with no plan whatsoever of how you're going to make it work, nothing you're willing to change, and the occasional mention of how your husband should be making more money. You put a lot of blame and expectation on him, while you refuse to trim your lifestyle even though you chose to marry a guy that can't support you the way you want. You guys aren't on foodstamps or anything yet, but if either of you lose a job, you get a divorce, or one of you get's sick, you will be in pretty short order. Shen- i don't really think my salary is all that low. I think I make pretty good money for just having a hs education. Maybe, but I think your cost of living is too high for your current combined income, so maybe instead of whining about how your husband won't accept a higher paying job that he doesn't want, you take off the jewelry and put on some mechanics overalls if you have to. Didn't you say multiple times in your first thread that you would take a higher paying job in a heartbeat, while complaining that your husband wasn't going on interviews you set up for him? That's a rhetorical question by the way, I distinctly remember you saying that. I could go copy and paste it, but I'm lazy.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 17, 2011 15:41:06 GMT -5
K for Dark, I had forgotten about that...
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