ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 17, 2011 10:02:07 GMT -5
So if they word it if you choose to seek the services of a medical provider,insurance is required,it is ok?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 17, 2011 10:07:52 GMT -5
Doctors are allowed to write off charity work. They also provide for so many such cases per year in their price structure.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 17, 2011 10:09:49 GMT -5
Doctors are allowed to write off charity work. They also provide for so many such cases per year in their price structure. Lawyers are allowed to write of charity work too, but it doesn't mean I want to. Charity doesn't pay the secretaries.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 10:13:35 GMT -5
So if they word it if you choose to seek the services of a medical provider,insurance is required,it is ok? No. Because then you're violating the Dr's right to choose by forcing him/her to accept insurance and refuse service to those without.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 10:15:01 GMT -5
So FY, if an uninsured person who can't afford to pay goes to ER with head trauma, you would turn him/her back and let him/her die in the name of freedom and liberty and choice? I wonder why you are not answering this question. heh heh heh
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 10:18:22 GMT -5
So FY, if an uninsured person who can't afford to pay goes to ER with head trauma, you would turn him/her back and let him/her die in the name of freedom and liberty and choice? I wonder why you are not answering this question. heh heh heh I'm not answering it because you're basing it off a lame ass assumption that I support leaving the poor and uninsured to die in the streets. I'm not playing your bait game.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 10:38:24 GMT -5
So FY, if an uninsured person who can't afford to pay goes to ER with head trauma, you would turn him/her back and let him/her die in the name of freedom and liberty and choice? I wonder why you are not answering this question. heh heh heh I'm not answering it because you're basing it off a lame ass assumption that I support leaving the poor and uninsured to die in the streets. I'm not playing your bait game. So you are fine with people making poor choices and then getting bailed out? After all the BS about freedom and liberty? Wow dude!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:43:02 GMT -5
How do you allign the idea that people need to make their own choices and deal with the consequences... without then leaving them to die in the streets if something happens that they don't have the assets to cover? ...
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 10:49:49 GMT -5
How do you allign the idea that people need to make their own choices and deal with the consequences... without then leaving them to die in the streets if something happens that they don't have the assets to cover? ... He doesn't. He is stomped and hence refusing to answer. This is why conservatives hate debates where rational questions are asked.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 17, 2011 10:52:35 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be true of mandated car insurance and auto insurers? Mandated auto insurance is to protect those that choose to insurance from those that don't. Mandated health insurance protects those that choose to insurance themselves from incurring costs related to those that choose not too.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 17, 2011 11:05:41 GMT -5
...fwiw, florida is not alone in his thinking...
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 11:14:46 GMT -5
...fwiw, florida is not alone in his thinking... I know. Conservative thinking in general is muddled.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 11:24:08 GMT -5
How do you allign the idea that people need to make their own choices and deal with the consequences... without then leaving them to die in the streets if something happens that they don't have the assets to cover? ... How? Because while I can view a situation with logic rather than pure off the wall emotional scenarios like above, I am able to see that sometimes people truly do need help. I have no problem helping when and where I can. I do so with my own time and money rather than demanding others do so with theirs.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 11:25:30 GMT -5
He doesn't. He is stomped and hence refusing to answer. This is why conservatives hate debates where rational questions are asked. I have answered the rational questions. I shrug off your troll bait though.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 11:29:27 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be true of mandated car insurance and auto insurers? For the umpteenth time, I'm not required to purchase auto insurance.
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txbo
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Post by txbo on Jun 17, 2011 11:52:13 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be true of mandated car insurance and auto insurers? For the umpteenth time, I'm not required to purchase auto insurance. The conservative argument for health insurance requirements as always is ridiculous. 1. Vehicle insurance is mandatory in all states and the operator is fined if not insured. Health Insurance should not be mandatory even though any serious illness would cost me and my company and possibly the government thousands of dollars to get the individual healthy again. Republicans do not believe in personnel responsibility and believe the government should pay for their lack of accountability. 2. A vehicle must get an annual checkup, and repaired if problem is found. People should not be required to do the same for ones body. 3. Vehicles must be licensed annually. I know and hate that I have two cars that require licensing every year, but I need both of them for our work, shopping, take the kids to school and sports, vacation and general errands. However, if someone brings this to my attention I use the straw man approach that insurance and license is only required if I drive. Ya right. 4. I must fill the car with gas weekly; I use the high octane only because it is better for my car. I must also maintain, change oil and filters, buy new tires and keep it clean. I ridicule the administration for wanting me to eat better so I can be healthier and not require so much medical attention. 5. My car has a major mechanical problem; thankfully, it is still under warranty. Thankfully, I have good medical insurance thru my company. I’m overjoyed that my state pays for my expenses now that I’m unable to work and take care of myself. I didn’t know that the federal government also contributes to my state for my care. I don’t need Obamacare because people like me do not need to be accountable because the state/country will make sure I don’t starve have housing and medical. That’s why I’m a far right wing republican.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 17, 2011 11:54:37 GMT -5
You might as well be saying you don't think that insurance should exist. No, that's not what I'm saying. When you choose to jump into "the pool" you do so with the knowledge that you may be paying for the loss of others. When you do not have that choice, you're now being sharing that risk by force. IMHO, forcing an individual to share somebody else's risk is wrong. But, by refusing to join the pool, then you force us to bail you out & subsidize you later should you come down with cancer or a horrible illness. How is this fair - the only other option is to literally turn people out from the ERs when sick because they didn't have the foresight to join the pool. If you make everyone join the pool because then there is no bailing people out later who were choosing not to share the risk because they didn't want to pay for others. One way or another a sick person is going to get covered by other people's losses. I would like to have them in a system they have been paying in prior to getting sick rather than subsidizing their ER visits & waiting until they are so broke they can get medicaid for their problems.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 11:55:11 GMT -5
For the umpteenth time, I'm not required to purchase auto insurance. The conservative argument for health insurance requirements as always is ridiculous. 1. Vehicle insurance is mandatory in all states and the operator is fined if not insured. Health Insurance should not be mandatory even though any serious illness would cost me and my company and possibly the government thousands of dollars to get the individual healthy again. Republicans do not believe in personnel responsibility and believe the government should pay for their lack of accountability. 2. A vehicle must get an annual checkup, and repaired if problem is found. People should not be required to do the same for ones body. 3. Vehicles must be licensed annually. I know and hate that I have two cars that require licensing every year, but I need both of them for our work, shopping, take the kids to school and sports, vacation and general errands. However, if someone brings this to my attention I use the straw man approach that insurance and license is only required if I drive. Ya right. 4. I must fill the car with gas weekly; I use the high octane only because it is better for my car. I must also maintain, change oil and filters, buy new tires and keep it clean. I ridicule the administration for wanting me to eat better so I can be healthier and not require so much medical attention. 5. My car has a major mechanical problem; thankfully, it is still under warranty. Thankfully, I have good medical insurance thru my company. I’m overjoyed that my state pays for my expenses now that I’m unable to work and take care of myself. I didn’t know that the federal government also contributes to my state for my care. I don’t need Obamacare because people like me do not need to be accountable because the state/country will make sure I don’t starve have housing and medical. That’s why I’m a far right wing republican. Awesome post!
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 11:56:14 GMT -5
No, that's not what I'm saying. When you choose to jump into "the pool" you do so with the knowledge that you may be paying for the loss of others. When you do not have that choice, you're now being sharing that risk by force. IMHO, forcing an individual to share somebody else's risk is wrong. But, by refusing to join the pool, then you force us to bail you out & subsidize you later should you come down with cancer or a horrible illness. How is this fair - the only other option is to literally turn people out from the ERs when sick because they didn't have the foresight to join the pool. If you make everyone join the pool because then there is no bailing people out later who were choosing not to share the risk because they didn't want to pay for others. One way or another a sick person is going to get covered by other people's losses. I would like to have them in a system they have been paying in prior to getting sick rather than subsidizing their ER visits & waiting until they are so broke they can get medicaid for their problems. What if they are very responsible users of Medicaid like Krikkit? The other 40M who are irresponsible, kick them out.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 12:23:00 GMT -5
1. Vehicle insurance is mandatory in all states and the operator is fined if not insured. Could you please point me to the federal mandate that every individual purchase auto insurance or be fined by the IRS? Again, could you please point me to the federal mandate that every vehicle receive a checkup? I'd like to inform our state government that they are in violation of federal law since we don't have an annual inspection here. Really? How ridiculous is it to argue for supporting federal mandate that applies to every citizen for the simple reason they exist by comparing it to state laws that only apply to those that choose to engage in a specific activity?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 12:26:09 GMT -5
Don't such state laws prohibit liberty and freedom on part of the person who wants to drive without a license, registration, and insurance? When are freedom loving conservatives going to be up in arms against such a monstrosity?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 12:33:15 GMT -5
Don't such state laws prohibit liberty and freedom on part of the person who wants to drive without a license, registration, and insurance? When are freedom loving conservatives going to be up in arms against such a monstrosity? Absurdity does nothing to strengthen your argument. Where's mkitty with her strawman rants when you need her?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:34:56 GMT -5
So, you are for people not buying isurance until they need it? Or are you against the pre-existing condition clause, etc... as well as the mandate. I was under the impression it was the mandate you found unconstitutional.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 12:45:55 GMT -5
Don't such state laws prohibit liberty and freedom on part of the person who wants to drive without a license, registration, and insurance? When are freedom loving conservatives going to be up in arms against such a monstrosity? Absurdity does nothing to strengthen your argument. Where's mkitty with her strawman rants when you need her? That doesn't answer the question though. heh heh heh
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txbo
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Post by txbo on Jun 17, 2011 13:15:55 GMT -5
I am registering a vehicle for the first time in Florida. Is automobile insurance mandatory? Yes. If you own a vehicle with at least four wheels and are registering it, you must have Florida insurance. I was involved in an automobile crash caused by someone else. Who can I turn to for help in recovering damages to my vehicle and for my injuries? The sole purpose of the Bureau of Financial Responsibility is to ensure that people are responsible for their actions involving motor vehicles. We do this by making sure everyone has insurance to pay for the damages they cause, or they may cause, when they own a motor vehicle or register a motor vehicle. We will help you recover your damages and be compensated for your injuries. The following information goes into greater detail on how we help people in these situations. www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.html
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 13:25:03 GMT -5
You may not have meant krickitt, exclusively, florida yankee, but krickitt isn't the only person in this country to whom such things happen. There but for grace could go you, or I, under the wrong circumstances. We may be more fortunate, and have more assets, but ... well, there are many who try very hard but don't have the assets we have. As I said, something must be done about the malingerers, but people who are legitimately working and trying to survive don't deserve to be dumped in the local Dempsy dumpster because they can't afford medical insurance and meet with an untimely catastrophe. We, as those who do have assets, have some responsiblity toward our fellow citizens, IMO.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 13:37:58 GMT -5
I am registering a vehicle for the first time in Florida. Is automobile insurance mandatory? Yes. If you own a vehicle with at least four wheels and are registering it, you must have Florida insurance. I was involved in an automobile crash caused by someone else. Who can I turn to for help in recovering damages to my vehicle and for my injuries? The sole purpose of the Bureau of Financial Responsibility is to ensure that people are responsible for their actions involving motor vehicles. We do this by making sure everyone has insurance to pay for the damages they cause, or they may cause, when they own a motor vehicle or register a motor vehicle. We will help you recover your damages and be compensated for your injuries. The following information goes into greater detail on how we help people in these situations. www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.htmlThank you for making my point. It is a STATE mandate for those residents wishing to operate a car on FL roadways purchase insurance...and only liability is required to protect others from damage you may cause and can't afford to pay for. They don't much care about the damage you may do to your own personal property. You are not required to purchase an automobile insurance policy simply because you are a citizen of the united states or the state of FL.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 13:42:23 GMT -5
I am registering a vehicle for the first time in Florida. Is automobile insurance mandatory? Yes. If you own a vehicle with at least four wheels and are registering it, you must have Florida insurance. I was involved in an automobile crash caused by someone else. Who can I turn to for help in recovering damages to my vehicle and for my injuries? The sole purpose of the Bureau of Financial Responsibility is to ensure that people are responsible for their actions involving motor vehicles. We do this by making sure everyone has insurance to pay for the damages they cause, or they may cause, when they own a motor vehicle or register a motor vehicle. We will help you recover your damages and be compensated for your injuries. The following information goes into greater detail on how we help people in these situations. www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.htmlThank you for making my point. It is a STATE mandate for those residents wishing to operate a car on FL roadways purchase insurance...and only liability is required to protect others from damage you may cause and can't afford to pay for. They don't much care about the damage you may do to your own personal property. You are not required to purchase an automobile insurance policy simply because you are a citizen of the united states or the state of FL. So, if you don't have medical insurance, and can't pay, and come to the ER with head trauma, and get supported by the taxpayer, you are not doing harm to the taxpayer? Unless you want to send back such folks, but you already said that you don't.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 17, 2011 14:50:01 GMT -5
Thank you for making my point. It is a STATE mandate for those residents wishing to operate a car on FL roadways purchase insurance...and only liability is required to protect others from damage you may cause and can't afford to pay for. They don't much care about the damage you may do to your own personal property. You are not required to purchase an automobile insurance policy simply because you are a citizen of the united states or the state of FL. So, if you don't have medical insurance, and can't pay, and come to the ER with head trauma, and get supported by the taxpayer, you are not doing harm to the taxpayer? Unless you want to send back such folks, but you already said that you don't. Exactly. Either we are all ultimately part of the same risk pool & pay for others whether they are insured or not, or we start turning people away who seek treatment because they are uninsured. Since no one is actually suggesting that we start turning away people from the ER's, then doesn't it make more sense to get everyone paying into the system?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 17, 2011 15:05:07 GMT -5
Since no one is actually suggesting that we start turning away people from the ER's, then doesn't it make more sense to get everyone paying into the system? C'mon Angel...do you honestly believe everyone will be paying in to the system? If they cannot afford to pay for medical care and/or insurance now, what makes you think they will be able to afford to pay for it when the mandate kicks in? Before RomneyCare was enacted, estimates of the number of uninsured in Massachusetts ranged from 372,000 to 618,000. Under the new program, about 219,000 previously uninsured residents have signed up for insurance. Of these, 133,000 are receiving subsidized coverage, proving once again that people are all too happy to accept something "for free," and let others pay the bill. That is in addition to 56,000 people who have been signed up for Medicaid. The bigger the subsidy, the faster people are signing up. Of the 133,000 people who have signed up for insurance since the plan was implemented, slightly more than half have received totally free coverage. Just because you're shifting the cost around doesn't mean the problem is fixed. It's a smoke and mirrors, slight of hand magic trick...it's a myth and just like romneycare, Obamacare does absolutely nothing to address the true problem of health care which is rapidly rising costs of medical care.
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