handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jun 9, 2011 20:44:59 GMT -5
Actually you can buy insurance for legal services they are called retainer services.. The established doctors will be there cash only which will eleminate many patients. With a medical degree costing upwards of half a million dollars today you won't see many new ones you can bet.
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 9, 2011 20:52:35 GMT -5
I cannot believe any one on this post believes what they prepose. First medical R&D have absolutely nothing in common with the insurance industry. Cash only would eliminate at least 75% of the healthcare market and make hospitals and doctors a premium if you could find one. The insurance industry is not the problem. People keep hitting on them but look at where healthcare would be without it. Want to go to a cash only system. A sure way to kill healthcare. The insurance programs are what keep hospitals open and doctors in their offices. Insurance companies disappear and so will hospitals and medical professionals. Get serious folks. There is no insurance for legal services yet there is no shortage of lawyers. Get real. Doctors will still be there when insurance companies disappear. Great riposte! K
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 9, 2011 21:04:48 GMT -5
Actually you can buy insurance for legal services they are called retainer services.. The established doctors will be there cash only which will eleminate many patients. With a medical degree costing upwards of half a million dollars today you won't see many new ones you can bet. A retainer service is not an insurance service. If there won't be many US doctors we will import them. It works for every other field of work. British, Canadian, Australian doctors don't have to pay so much to get their degrees. By the way, how did the medical system in the USA work before there was insurance? There were plenty of doctors then, no?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 9, 2011 21:05:54 GMT -5
Legal degrees are not cheap either.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 9, 2011 21:15:19 GMT -5
FIRST THING, KILL THE LAWYERS!
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 9, 2011 21:18:57 GMT -5
Actually you can buy insurance for legal services they are called retainer services.. The established doctors will be there cash only which will eleminate many patients. With a medical degree costing upwards of half a million dollars today you won't see many new ones you can bet. A retainer service is not an insurance service. If there won't be many US doctors we will import them. It works for every other field of work. British, Canadian, Australian doctors don't have to pay so much to get their degrees. By the way, how did the medical system in the USA work before there was insurance? There were plenty of doctors then, no? I don't think there were as many doctors. Certainly not all the specialized physicians. Certainly not the level of research. Pushing back life expectancy. I guess it's good. Many American children get to know their great grandparents now. Honestly, for myself, I'd rather go back to a less medically advanced state. Somehow, despite, success stories in all areas medicine to me has become a monstrous thing. Quality of life has to do with the soul of a person. If these scientific advances don't advance the quality of spiritual life what's the point? Just clinging to a random rock in a sea of gas.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 9, 2011 21:49:11 GMT -5
The golden age of American Health Care is about to begin. Don't believe the fear mongering.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 9, 2011 22:09:34 GMT -5
The golden age of American Health Care is about to begin. Don't believe the fear mongering. When is the golden age of American tax cutting going to come?
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jun 9, 2011 22:13:59 GMT -5
RAVINGLUNATIC: If you expect the golden age of tax cutting is coming you are truly a lunatic. I wish it was coming to. Sorry
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 9, 2011 22:25:37 GMT -5
The golden age of tax cutting for the rich has been the last 30 years- a disasterfor everyone else. Almost OVER!! ;D
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 0:10:59 GMT -5
The golden age of tax cutting for the rich has been the last 30 years- a disasterfor everyone else. Almost OVER!! ;D How so?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 0:13:02 GMT -5
RAVINGLUNATIC: If you expect the golden age of tax cutting is coming you are truly a lunatic. I wish it was coming to. Sorry I expect nothing from politicians. However I will not vote for a tax and spend conservative. We need real conservatives running on a platform of gutting SS, Medicare, Medicaid, military, farm subsidies, DoE, everything. A scorched earth policy is what we need.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 10, 2011 1:52:51 GMT -5
FIRST THING, KILL THE LAWYERS! EEEK! No!!
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jun 10, 2011 9:17:23 GMT -5
FIRST THING, KILL THE LAWYERS! EEEK! No!! Only the bad ones. But I do think our litigious society has caused prices of a great many things to increase. Back to the OP, I don't know if health care would be 'better' that is a pretty subjective term, however, without a 3rd party payer such as insurance, prices would surely be lower.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 10, 2011 9:18:31 GMT -5
short answer: sure. Isn't everything else?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jun 10, 2011 9:24:29 GMT -5
Insurance should have never morphed into a health care payment system, it should have remained what insurance was meant for; when you have unexpectedly high health care costs.
Also on the retainer service, some jurisdictions have ruled it is insurance, killing some innovative ways to provide low costs health care.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 11:54:45 GMT -5
Bottom line, we need to lower health care consumption, and the easiest way to do that is to outlaw insurance, as then most people won't be able to afford healthcare. That will enable the rich like ME to get better services, and I am all for it.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 10, 2011 12:10:40 GMT -5
ravinglunatic ... I am reasonably sure if you called your doctor's office and offered to pay cash and twice what your insurance pays for an office visit, your doctor might be willing to squeeze you in before 2 months. ;D Why should I have to pay twice? Seriously? This is the basics of capitalism - you want faster/better service, then pay for it. You are mad you are on a waiting list, but aren't willing to pay any more than anyone else on the list, so you are stuck. Pay a little extra & they might move you up. You're rich - use that to your advantage & get better healthcare than the rest of us. Heck, many rich people have their own personal doc, maybe you should try that. As a side note - I might consider looking for a new doc. A lot of it depends on location, getting into a doc in TX was a disaster. But, where I live now I can pretty much always get in within a day or two. One doc here has walk-in hours every day from 5 AM - 11 AM, but I'm not a huge fan of his so I only go there if I absolutely have to.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 12:16:24 GMT -5
Why should I have to pay twice? Seriously? This is the basics of capitalism - you want faster/better service, then pay for it. You are mad you are on a waiting list, but aren't willing to pay any more than anyone else on the list, so you are stuck. Pay a little extra & they might move you up. You're rich - use that to your advantage & get better healthcare than the rest of us. Heck, many rich people have their own personal doc, maybe you should try that. As a side note - I might consider looking for a new doc. A lot of it depends on location, getting into a doc in TX was a disaster. But, where I live now I can pretty much always get in within a day or two. One doc here has walk-in hours every day from 5 AM - 11 AM, but I'm not a huge fan of his so I only go there if I absolutely have to. If people didn't have medical insurance, then they couldn't come to the doc at all, so I wouldn't have to pay extra. It is easy to say since I am rich I should pay more. I completely disagree. By subsidizing insurance for everyone the people who can afford to pay in cash are getting penalized. Level the playing field and let everyone pay with cash, and then the rich won't have to pay more.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 10, 2011 12:20:46 GMT -5
I didn't say you are rich therefore you should pay more. I said - you want better service, then you should pay more - I just pointed out you have this option since you claim to be rich.
Who is getting their insurance subsidized? Unless you go to a doc that takes a real high number of medicare/medicaid patients, then everyone else on that waiting list paid for their insurance just like you. What makes you so special?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 12:28:29 GMT -5
The point is that if there was no insurance, public or private, then there would be far fewer people going to the doctor. Do you disagree?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 10, 2011 12:34:25 GMT -5
The point is that if there was no insurance, public or private, then there would be far fewer people going to the doctor. Do you disagree? I disagree, I think just as many people would go to the doctor. Or do you think most people just go to the doctor for fun & enjoy paying copays?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 10, 2011 12:36:58 GMT -5
And I don't think it would hold costs down either.It would just be a larger shift to government programs and doctors doing charity cases,and making up for it on paying customers.....
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 12:38:23 GMT -5
The point is that if there was no insurance, public or private, then there would be far fewer people going to the doctor. Do you disagree? I disagree, I think just as many people would go to the doctor. Or do you think most people just go to the doctor for fun & enjoy paying copays? It is well known that people without insurance today typically go to doctors only when the illness is pretty severe. I think the same pattern will work itself out if today's insured are thrown out of their insurance. A $10 co-pay is very different than a $150 full charge, plus another $500 for blood work.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 12:39:09 GMT -5
And I don't think it would hold costs down either.It would just be a larger shift to government programs and doctors doing charity cases,and making up for it on paying customers..... The Govt programs have to go too. I doubt how much charity work doctors will be doing. Most physicians do not enjoy their harrowing lifestyles anyway.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 10, 2011 12:49:18 GMT -5
I disagree, I think just as many people would go to the doctor. Or do you think most people just go to the doctor for fun & enjoy paying copays? It is well known that people without insurance today typically go to doctors only when the illness is pretty severe. I think the same pattern will work itself out if today's insured are thrown out of their insurance. A $10 co-pay is very different than a $150 full charge, plus another $500 for blood work. You in general can't compared an uninsured person's mindset to an insured person's mindset. An uninsured person doesn't see a reason to put that much money into purchasing health insurance & doesn't want to spend money on their health. An insured person generally pays a lot just for the privilege of having health insurance (unless you have awesome benefits) & then still pays for each trip to the doctor. A quick look showed me I pay over $7K for medical costs in a year & my company pays around $7.5K on my behalf. If I no longer have insurance I now have $7K to still spend on trips to the doctor & my medical costs. Plus, it is reasonable to assume I would receive at least some reimbursement for my company's share. So I would probably have like $10K to pay for medical expenses, which in an average year actually exceed my total medical costs by a large amount. I don't save money in most years by having insurance, I only save money in the years where I have a catastrophic illness or accident - which is the purpose of insurance. You pay extra most of the time, but then are covered in bad times. So, no I don't think most people would stop going to the doctor, because most people's average medical expenses are lower than what they would save by not having insurance. What would happen is their would be less people able to afford major operations or extended hospital stays or chronic conditions.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jun 10, 2011 12:49:18 GMT -5
The point is that if there was no insurance, public or private, then there would be far fewer people going to the doctor. Do you disagree? Well, this is possibly true, but the real harm is overuse and the disconnect between the actual cost and the consumer. There are many cases where people with insurance decide to go to the emergency room for non emergencies simply because they don't want to wait or even bother with making an appointment and if it is only $50 bucks who cares, now if that emergency room visit was $300 or more, they may decide, yes I can wait to see my doctor for my hangnail.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 10, 2011 13:17:38 GMT -5
Unfettered free markets create so much prosperity, that we really don't have to "choose". It's not this, or that. It's both, and.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 10, 2011 13:45:51 GMT -5
Where are these 'free markets' you speak of?
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 23:34:07 GMT -5
Actually, the "real harm" is often underuse as the uninsured go without any medical attention until the wart becomes a melanoma. Also, so far as the "free market" fanatics go, watch the "free market" go out the window when uninsured and untreated people become major disease vectors. Read, Poe's, "The Masque of the Red Death" to understand what I am saying. That only applies to infectious diseases. Cancer and heart disease and diabetes and the lot are not infectious. When the wart becomes the melanoma the patient will either pay out of pocket or go without treatment. Why should the rick have to pay more in taxes to support early detection?
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