AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 31, 2011 11:56:43 GMT -5
Colin Powell endorsed Obama. He did so in my personal opinion for no discernable reason other than skin color. He wrote a rather unconvincing (with respect to policy) endorsement of Obama deliberately timed to do the maximum damage to McCain, and leave little time for an objective person to challenge his assertions.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 11:59:05 GMT -5
he does have liberal views and opinions i.e lifting the restrictions for gays in the military, allowing more women in the services areas that were once closed to them, and cutting waste and abuse in the Pentagon and etc..
I really see none of this as a liberal view, it is more of a view of someone who sees a train headed there way and no way to get off the track. Gays in the military, PI when you hit the point of irrelevance more than likely 1 in 6 will be homosexual, women in combat, about damn time if we are all equal we can all die equally, cut waste cut abuse fire the ones who authorize waste prosecute those who are abusive.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on May 31, 2011 12:00:01 GMT -5
...no, we don't know for sure... but I think he's going to answer for his endorsment, just like anybody... I'm one of those pesky Is whose vote can swing... and no way am I voting for anyone who endorsed POTUS...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on May 31, 2011 12:03:15 GMT -5
he does have liberal views and opinions i.e lifting the restrictions for gays in the military, allowing more women in the services areas that were once closed to them, and cutting waste and abuse in the Pentagon and etc.. I really see none of this as a liberal view, it is more of a view of someone who sees a train headed there way and no way to get off the track. Gays in the military, PI when you hit the point of irrelevance more than likely 1 in 6 will be homosexual, women in combat, about damn time if we are all equal we can all die equally, cut waste cut abuse fire the ones who authorize waste prosecute those who are abusive. ...sorry, cme, but a "we can't stop this train" or "it's inevitable" approach is unacceptable to many, and I hope many more... otherwise, why try to improve schooling? housing? medical care? etc.?
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Post by privateinvestor on May 31, 2011 12:03:54 GMT -5
I really see none of this as a liberal view, it is more of a view of someone who sees a train headed there way and no way to get off the track. Gays in the military, PI when you hit the point of irrelevance more than likely 1 in 6 will be homosexual, women in combat, about damn time if we are all equal we can all die equally, cut waste cut abuse fire the ones who authorize waste prosecute those who are abusive.[/quote][/color] I disagree the conservatives in the Pentagon or some of the Marine Generals to be specific were against the views of General Powell for gays, women and want mega billions more for new weapons systems...General Powell and General Cartwright are miles apart... General Cartwright USMC & Asst Chairman Joint Chiefs
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on May 31, 2011 12:04:21 GMT -5
Colin Powell endorsed Obama. He did so in my personal opinion for no discernable reason other than skin color. He wrote a rather unconvincing (with respect to policy) endorsement of Obama deliberately timed to do the maximum damage to McCain, and leave little time for an objective person to challenge his assertions. ...another good point...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 31, 2011 12:05:40 GMT -5
Why did Conde take the fall for Bush on so much stuff? I would have voted for her!
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Colleenz
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Post by Colleenz on May 31, 2011 12:10:20 GMT -5
Powell / Rice 2012
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 12:14:22 GMT -5
he does have liberal views and opinions i.e lifting the restrictions for gays in the military, allowing more women in the services areas that were once closed to them, and cutting waste and abuse in the Pentagon and etc.. I really see none of this as a liberal view, it is more of a view of someone who sees a train headed there way and no way to get off the track. Gays in the military, PI when you hit the point of irrelevance more than likely 1 in 6 will be homosexual, women in combat, about damn time if we are all equal we can all die equally, cut waste cut abuse fire the ones who authorize waste prosecute those who are abusive. ...sorry, cme, but a "we can't stop this train" or "it's inevitable" approach is unacceptable to many, and I hope many more... otherwise, why try to improve schooling? housing? medical care? etc.? There is of course a difference in Opinion regarding which way the military needs to go. But, looking at the house market, schooling et al, is not the same thing. What is happening in the military is a "different" beast, it is actually one of the powers appointed to congress in the constitution unlike housing schools med care. I was in in the switch years when DI's couldnot lay a hand on you yell, scream, spit yes but physically touch was made into a nono, some of the old DI's had a hard time remembering the new rules. Through Trial and error we learned, which is what will happen here, there will be women in combat eventually what the old soilders (including me) will have to get past is the flap in the pants and see a soilder first last and always and not gender roles.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on May 31, 2011 12:18:44 GMT -5
<<< There is of course a difference in Opinion regarding which way the military needs to go. But, looking at the house market, schooling et al, is not the same thing. >>> ...true, but our reactions to things can still be compared... I oppose a defeatist attitude to somehow "excuse" our need to address an issue... <<< What is happening in the military is a "different" beast, it is actually one of the powers appointed to congress in the constitution unlike housing schools med care. >>> ...again, true... and again, not the discussion point I raised... glad to see we agree on enforcing enumerated powers, though...
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Post by privateinvestor on May 31, 2011 12:19:05 GMT -5
I was in in the switch years when DI's couldnot lay a hand on you yell, scream, spit yes but physically touch was made into a nono, some of the old DI's had a hard time remembering the new rules.
I was in when they did lay hands on you but that ended after the tragedy at Ribbon Creek in Parris Island...and General Pate changed all the old DI ways....
I was an instructor of AIT at Camp Geiger and never did any of that but some of my colleagues did and they sadly enjoyed it...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 12:21:38 GMT -5
I would suggest he disagrees with the POTUS on many things..and believe in any meetings with him, and I know he has had a few and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been calls back and forth,[ I wonder if one can have a secure call if there was only one encryption gizmo what ever, or is one needed on both sides of the conversation, if not, possuible NOT phone calls, just thought of that] and in those meetings I am sure he has voiced his disagreements with the POTUS other wise why have meetings, if all you get is pats on the back. I am sure advice has been sought, and then of course final calls, the one in the chair.
I wouldn't have been surprised if Powell wasn't in on the call on Lybia, even possible Syria, what he thought, and on many dealings with the Saudi's, he knows the principals involved very well..Royal House, monarchy.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 12:26:46 GMT -5
I would suggest he disagrees with the POTUS on many things..and believe in any meetings with him, and I know he has had a few and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been calls back and forth,[ I wonder if one can have a secure call if there was only one encryption gizmo what ever, or is one needed on both sides of the conversation, if not, possuible NOT phone calls, just thought of that] and in those meetings I am sure hjhe has voiced his disagreements with the POTUS other wise why hve meettings, if all you get is pats on the back. I am sure advice has been sought, and then of course final calls, the one in the chair. I wouldn't have been surprised if Powell wasn't in on the call on Lybia, even possible Syria, what he thought, and on many dealings with the Saudi's, he knows the principals involved very well..Royal House, monarchy. Can you try and be concise and actually say something here other than uhhh, ummmm, uhhh. You are harder to follow than a 3 yo with ADD/ADHD with a lolli in one hand and Koolaide in the other.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 12:39:55 GMT -5
I would suggest he disagrees with the POTUS on many things..and believe in any meetings with him, and I know he has had a few and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been calls back and forth,[ I wonder if one can have a secure call if there was only one encryption gizmo what ever, or is one needed on both sides of the conversation, if not, possuible NOT phone calls, just thought of that] and in those meetings I am sure hjhe has voiced his disagreements with the POTUS other wise why hve meettings, if all you get is pats on the back. I am sure advice has been sought, and then of course final calls, the one in the chair. I wouldn't have been surprised if Powell wasn't in on the call on Lybia, even possible Syria, what he thought, and on many dealings with the Saudi's, he knows the principals involved very well..Royal House, monarchy. Can you try and be concise and actually say something here other than uhhh, ummmm, uhhh. You are harder to follow than a 3 yo with ADD/ADHD with a lolli in one hand and Koolaide in the other. mmmm, after rereading, thanks for bringing it up, I noticed I neglected to use spellcheck, all corrected now, that there are no uhhh, or mmmm's in my post in fact very clear in its meaning and content, and if you have a hard time understanding it , possible koolaide and a lolly would be appropriate for you and just go play with kids your own age. What think?mmmmm
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 12:41:17 GMT -5
You are harder to follow than a 3 yo with ADD/ADHD with a lolli in one hand and Koolaide in the other.
That's what I think.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 12:44:32 GMT -5
You are harder to follow than a 3 yo with ADD/ADHD with a lolli in one hand and Koolaide in the other. That's what I think. I could be rude and post what one seems to be their new "mantra ',..."Deal with it. " I won't , I agree , it's rude. So in the post above that you seem to have a problem with, let me look, wait one, Ok, back.......Original Post below. ------------------------------------------------------- "I would suggest he disagrees with the POTUS on many things..and believe in any meetings with him, and I know he has had a few and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been calls back and forth,[ I wonder if one can have a secure call if there was only one encryption gizmo's what ever, or is one needed on both sides of the conversation, if not, possible NOT phone calls, just thought of that] and in those meetings I am sure he has voiced his disagreements with the POTUS other wise why have meetings, if all you get is pats on the back. I am sure advice has been sought, and then of course final calls, the one in the chair. I wouldn't have been surprised if Powell wasn't in on the call on Lybia, even possible Syria, what he thought, and on many dealings with the Saudis, he knows the principals involved very well..Royal House, monarchy" -------------------------------------------------- I am suggesting in the post above, that General [Ret] Powell does disagree with our current POTUS, and when called in for what ever to meet with him, if discussions were along those lines of advice asked, then he would tell him what he feels and believed including any disagreement of his on the subject under discussion. Do I believe he would recite all his disagreements on all of the POTUS decisions on all the items he deals with at such a time? NO. However if he was asked by the POTUS a broad question, which I am sure he would not be asked, say along the lines of , from the POTUS to him, "So Adam[figure they are close now, or if not that close and informal, then] , "So General, how am I doing as POTUS", then I believe he would tell him in detail of how he thought he was doing as POTUS, but I doubt that's how these get together are run. I brought up the idea of also possible contact in a non face to face but then , with second thought, how one can over hear such conversations, In am not sure if these type of conversations on national security and sensitive topics are carried out unless both sides inn the conversation are protected from some one listening in, so dropped that idea. I don't see how the above explanation is that much different then the original post of mine on the topic and if you are still having trouble then I am sorry. I won't refer you to that comment above which I agree is a rude one, but just have to say, if still unable to understand my post, we should both move on and just say good bye.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 12:56:44 GMT -5
Dezi,
You have many assumptions in your triade, (I would suggest he disagrees with the POTUS on many things) you may suggest all you want, very few words have come from Powell against Obama (and believe in any meetings with him, and I know he has had a few and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been calls back and forth) I can't find much info on Obama and Powell having any cozy relationship where he has access unfettered to the President (and in those meetings I am sure he has voiced his disagreements with the POTUS other wise why have meetings) again not finding much to support that Powell has the access you believe he does to the president (I am sure advice has been sought) again your opinion which may be right on yet is nothing but opinion with no substantial fact.
That is what I have an issue with Dezi, you try and speak as someone who knows all, been in it all, done it all and mostly other than your my friend who, my uncle who, my this person related to me in this way, I did this that and the other you provide nothing of substance just more heartstring tuggin that can in no way shape or form be shored up with hard facts.
I am glad that you agree with yourself that telling someone to deal with it is rude, that has nothing to do with anythig. What I am asking for is for you to actually support all this clap trap that you put up as fact and not as your own opinion.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on May 31, 2011 13:01:51 GMT -5
Powell showed his colors when he turned his back on the party, instead off stepping up and being the leader that many felt we needed to originally go against Obama. Powell is not the answer, unless you want Obama Light.
cme1201 is right on the mark. I would also add that it seemed to me he was endorsing Obama because of his race. In that case there is no way in hell you would want him as President since you would see much of the same situation occurring with the socialist government you have today.
Dalton McGuinty Burns III
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Post by privateinvestor on May 31, 2011 13:24:42 GMT -5
Dalton McGuinty Burns III
And when Mr Burns speaks people listen and take notice so with that being said ..I will second that Mr Burns ...however Powell was a dam good general and only mediocre as a Secretary of State IMHO.. so logic would dictate he would be mediocre as a president, and logically or probably not great like Reagan, Kennedy or Eisenhower..
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 14:13:25 GMT -5
Dezi, You have many assumptions in your triade, (I would suggest he disagrees with the POTUS on many things) you may suggest all you want, very few words have come from Powell against Obama (and believe in any meetings with him, and I know he has had a few and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been calls back and forth) I can't find much info on Obama and Powell having any cozy relationship where he has access unfettered to the President (and in those meetings I am sure he has voiced his disagreements with the POTUS other wise why have meetings) again not finding much to support that Powell has the access you believe he does to the president (I am sure advice has been sought) again your opinion which may be right on yet is nothing but opinion with no substantial fact. That is what I have an issue with Dezi, you try and speak as someone who knows all, been in it all, done it all and mostly other than your my friend who, my uncle who, my this person related to me in this way, I did this that and the other you provide nothing of substance just more heartstring tuggin that can in no way shape or form be shored up with hard facts. I am glad that you agree with yourself that telling someone to deal with it is rude, that has nothing to do with anythig. What I am asking for is for you to actually support all this clap trap that you put up as fact and not as your own opinion. CME good point brought out, me thinks for you , a dissing of , toward me but am not taking it that way. More the purpose of these threads, a discussion of, why not? I post articles of interest to me and hopefully to others. Usually dealing with politics, rarly but occassionally , on the markets. I think that is the purpose of this zone , for fun, not seriouse as if we are actually going to influence any one with clout who make real decisions, but for discussion. I also post MY ideas and thoughts, regarding the articles posted , a bit of the article if a long one , and the link. Now it's up to readers, such as your self to join in if interested and refute, agree , or discuss the article posted AND my thoughts regarding them. Where is that a wrong assumptiion of what should happen. You disagree with me, so disagree and tell me why, show me, suggest, what ever you feel like doing. As far as the above, it's my thoughts of how the relationship with Powell is, between the POTUS and he. I never said he has a close relationship with him, that they are friends, confidants but I do beleive Obama has sought him out for ideas on what ever, not just because of his military back ground, though there he is knowlegable and experienced, he has plenty of actives who are more informed on the today and specifics then a retired General, no matter how many stars he wore. But also because of his experiences in knowing, dealing with foreign leaders, areas of the world, diplomates he knew being at the UN, as well as Sec of State. My thoughts of , if he disagrees with some of Obamas policies is just my beliefs , which I thought were fine to put here I am not saying they are correct, just MY thoughts. Do we have to have link to every idea posted here? Are we not allowed to post how WE feel on topics, and I beleive I am careful to make it clear when I do post that way, this is what I believe . [If I do neglect that , then it is a oversite, which seems to be common here] Sometimes, most times the "why " I believe a certain way, is also there, so I don't understand your complaint and what your objecting to, unless you feel all that should be posted here is links. If so, then what. If one posts their ideas ragarding the link should the response be , "How dare, you assume, who are you, what expertise do you have...", and yadda such as that.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 31, 2011 14:17:32 GMT -5
Powell showed his colors when he turned his back on the party, instead off stepping up and being the leader that many felt we needed to originally go against Obama. Powell is not the answer, unless you want Obama Light.cme1201 is right on the mark. I would also add that it seemed to me he was endorsing Obama because of his race. In that case there is no way in hell you would want him as President since you would see much of the same situation occurring with the socialist government you have today. Dalton McGuinty Burns III good stuff...Mr Burns....no wonder your karma is in the stratosphere I just hope someday when I grow up that I will be just like you sir..
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 14:25:29 GMT -5
CME good point brought out, me thinks for you , a dissing of , toward me but am not taking it that way.
1. No Diss, just pointing out how you come across since you seem to have no issue pointing it out to others.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 14:43:32 GMT -5
CME good point brought out, me thinks for you , a dissing of , toward me but am not taking it that way. 1. No Diss, just pointing out how you come across since you seem to have no issue pointing it out to others. Glad no diss, I explained my feelings as well as I could, will try NOT to come across the way you say I do, but I re read what I posted, and I have to stay with that. I will make sure I make sure where there is non link when I post ideas they are IMHO. When posting with a link, I believe they are clear but will try to make sure they are put up as MY thoughts on what the article is relating to. Be nice if all do so, but I took your comments as you meant them, hopefully read them correctly. Any way, still would have licked to have been given the chance to either vote or not vote for Powell, it would have been a interesting race, campaigne. My thoughts now. I don't feel Powell was a bad[mediocre] Sec of State, just he was working for the wrong man with what his, Powell's, thoughts were on topics. His replacement , Condoles , fit in better with the man who was in the chair in my opinion, a better fit. I know she disagreed with him on many issues , [she was just interviewed and mentioned that, not what issues and the views, just the fact that there were differences] but believed her belief in his Presidency was stronger then Powell's so when her advice was not taken, or dismissed she was better able to deal with that and accept that. Nothing against either one of them , but as I said, in my opinion, it was a much better fit.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 15:09:40 GMT -5
I have much respect for Gen. [RET] Powell, he was at my Basic Grad and AIT Grad, I shook his hand on both occasions, I have had the pleasure of talking with him up close and personal working years ago with the Republican party, he was okay as Sec of State.
IMO: As Colin has gotten along in years he wanted to see a change in Washington, nothing says vindication, acceptance and belonging like seeing someone with the same skin hue as yourself sitting in the highest office in America, I have no issue with that.
My issues with Colin come from his remarks on why he decided to endorse Obama and when his decision came out. He said he couldn't vote for John because Palin wasn't ready to be President when what she was running as was VP, she didn't have the qualifications because she didn't speak well and didn't appear Presidential. Yet, President Obama who was a Junior Senator at the time with less than 3 full years (from '06 to '08 were partial work in-between fund raising events) was ready to take the helm, it didn't compute then and it doesn't compute to me now.
As I stated in my original post on page 1.
No, Colin Powell could not run as a moderate Republican. Too many life long middle of the road read: Financially Conservative Socially Liberal will fell that he turned there back on them in 2008 and won't accept him even if he came back begging. My opinion on this of course.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 15:40:31 GMT -5
No Powell. First, he does not want it, second, if we need black men we already have one, maybe more, third-- he flipped. Why trust him? Not me. I like the guy, but NO is my answer.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 16:15:31 GMT -5
I have much respect for Gen. [RET] Powell, he was at my Basic Grad and AIT Grad, I shook his hand on both occasions, I have had the pleasure of talking with him up close and personal working years ago with the Republican party, he was okay as Sec of State. IMO: As Colin has gotten along in years he wanted to see a change in Washington, nothing says vindication, acceptance and belonging like seeing someone with the same skin hue as yourself sitting in the highest office in America, I have no issue with that. My issues with Colin come from his remarks on why he decided to endorse Obama and when his decision came out. He said he couldn't vote for John because Palin wasn't ready to be President when what she was running as was VP, she didn't have the qualifications because she didn't speak well and didn't appear Presidential. Yet, President Obama who was a Junior Senator at the time with less than 3 full years (from '06 to '08 were partial work in-between fund raising events) was ready to take the helm, it didn't compute then and it doesn't compute to me now. As I stated in my original post on page 1. No, Colin Powell could not run as a moderate Republican. Too many life long middle of the road read: Financially Conservative Socially Liberal will fell that he turned there back on them in 2008 and won't accept him even if he came back begging. My opinion on this of course. My main point with the original point of the OP, because of what you stated, objected to, nothing wrong with that, it's true, , even though Powell in my mind would be a candidate if he ran, that would be extremely electable , at least as well as we would know, even with that, the Republicans would never be able to muster the support of the majority of them to give him that chance. He just does not, IMHO, meet the litmus test that Republicans, the great majority , want in their candidates, basically insist on and not enough of them will loosen their personal convictions to have such as their candidate even though it might give them the best chance to win the office. Pubs, IMHO, very inflexible that way. Dems, mostly, [Not sure of far left] more pragmatic, fight among ourselves scratch and bite, gouge a bit but in the end, if the guy has a shot, will, for the most part, the majority will swing behind them, want that office to badly to let little tattered convictions stand in the way.. IMHO. ;D
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 16:55:48 GMT -5
Are you willing to explain what you see to be the (major) Litmus test
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 31, 2011 17:22:05 GMT -5
Are you willing to explain what you see to be the (major) Litmus test Nope, wouldn't be good at it, very rarely, have a few times , voted on the right, elder Bush I believe , believe the second time he ran, won't swear to it , so not that sure of the important points of pubs importance on issues, just the off the top of my heard ones. I could guess at a few but believe you would do a better job then I , or if not you some others here. It's not important I know what the planks of important Republican ideology is, their mantra, I am not one, will not be one, I know what I don't like , it's just that I know [believe then]Powell, even if he was the most electable of all the pubs candidates, I don't believe he would get the nod. You showed me how you felt, your typical and I am not criticizing your beliefs, how you feel, just the way it is.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 31, 2011 17:23:37 GMT -5
So you feel he would fail a test that you can't describe.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 31, 2011 17:30:49 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Colin Powell didn't run for the office because his family (particularly, his wife) didn't want him to do so. There's another problem that might crop up, leaving the poor guy to fight the same battle President Obama has fought. His parents were Jamaican. Were they (both, or one), indeed, US citizens when Colin Powell was born in Harlem, New York? He might not want to put his family through the nastiness that accompanies a run for this office. Frankly, I don't blame him in the least.
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