AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 13:01:07 GMT -5
Not by everyone...but I was alarmed at the icy reception Ron Paul's suggestion that homeowners build their own levees got. I don't know...seems like a pretty darn good suggestion to me: www.dare.co.uk/observations/mississippi-flood/
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 25, 2011 13:10:24 GMT -5
I saw those levee photos online and thought ~ wow! Those people really went above and beyond to save their homes, good for them.
Perhaps the concern about self-reliance is that some people would be ill-equipped to BE self-reliant in some situations due to physical, emotional, mental, financial or other limitations ... so it can be nice when the government does things like build dams + levees, hires/trains firefighters, sprays for mosquitoes, etc.
As for me, I don't own a bulldozer, so I would be ill-equipped to build a levee around my home.
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txbo
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Post by txbo on May 25, 2011 13:14:17 GMT -5
I concur; the problem is most people do not live out in the country or have the means to build a levee around their house. I would not have enough dirt to build a levee more the one-feet high and nor too any of my neighbors. City living has its disadvantage.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 25, 2011 13:15:12 GMT -5
That is a really good question Paul.
You could also ask when did being personally responsible for you and yours become Governments job?
The constant sweeping under the rug of obstacles that we as a nation face has become the new norm. The amount of money that we as a nation bleed is sickening, (Hey we have until August to deal with the Debt Ceiling, so instead of dealing with what needs to be cut, pared down, re adjusted, we can just keep on keeping on).
Looking at your photo's what do you see? Family Homes that have been saved, usually by the backs and hard work of those who own them, 1 family saved because they wanted it, they wanted to keep what they have, not replace it in the future when Uncle Sam decides to give them a few pieces of paper that's worth 50% less than what the face note says.
I feel too many people have given up on the I am responsible for me, you are responsible for you and taken on the mindset it takes a village, unfortunately the village is burning and the ones who can put it out are spraying it with gasoline instead.
Just my opinion.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on May 25, 2011 13:16:33 GMT -5
Molly I was gonig to say the same thing how many people have a buldozer and tons and tons of fill dirt or the physical know how or capabilty to do so.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 13:19:06 GMT -5
I think people should look for help from gov't only after exhausting all other help, self, family, charity, church, community, etc. Gov't last, not first. Americans are very generous people. Many individuals believe that the blessing of giving is greater than receiving, and ask nothing in return. Gov't, on the other hand, seems to be in a war on our persons and every "gift" comes with an expectation of obedience to some political ideal. No thanks.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 25, 2011 13:21:43 GMT -5
How many of the folks whose homes were threatened are elderly, or physically and/or physically or financially unable to build levees around their homes? Not everyone can do it. Those who can certainly should; still, we must deal with those who cannot through some method other than hollering "Sucks to be you!"
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 25, 2011 13:23:49 GMT -5
I don't think self-reliance is frowned upon. But, I do think it is rather callous to suggest self-reliance in matters that require more money, education, & ability than many people have. Telling people to just build their own levees comes across as a big FU to the 90% of the population that is unable to do so for one reason or another.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 25, 2011 13:23:54 GMT -5
How many of the folks whose homes were threatened are elderly, or physically and/or physically or financially unable to build levees around their homes? Not everyone can do it. Those who can certainly should; still, we must deal with those who cannot through some method other than hollering "Sucks to be you!" And on the opposite spectrum, How many were able bodied people who could have tried to save what they had in the days leading up to the water overflow? There should always be safety nets, but, people who can should be required to at least attempt to be self sufficient.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 25, 2011 13:24:06 GMT -5
Minutemen were members of teams of select men from the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. They provided a highly mobile, rapidly deployed force that allowed the colonies to respond immediately to war threats, hence the name.
The minutemen were among the first people to fight in the American Revolution. Their teams constituted about a quarter of the entire militia. Generally younger and more mobile, they served as part of a network for early response. (emphasis added) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen The founding of our nation was done by collaborative effort.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 25, 2011 13:26:01 GMT -5
Minutemen were members of teams of select men from the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. They provided a highly mobile, rapidly deployed force that allowed the colonies to respond immediately to war threats, hence the name.
The minutemen were among the first people to fight in the American Revolution. Their teams constituted about a quarter of the entire militia. Generally younger and more mobile, they served as part of a network for early response. (emphasis added) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen The founding of our nation was done by collaborative effort. By people not government.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on May 25, 2011 13:39:16 GMT -5
Why is it those who ask "where is the self reliance" are the biggesr PIAs when they have some bad luck? Then they paid for their medicaid, medicare, damage repair. "Government hands off my medicare" and other ignorance. The RWers are always saying the unfortunate are lazy bums and cheaters, but it's the lying cheating rich and corporations that get all the bailouts...A lot of people don't have family, and charity dries up when most needed, and the overhead and corruption of money raisers makes supposed gov't inefficiency look great. These are false economies, like our health "system", welfare training cuts, and education cuts. Greetings from the Dem 26th! Pffffft!!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 13:41:32 GMT -5
Perhaps the concern about self-reliance is that some people would be ill-equipped to BE self-reliant in some situations due to physical, emotional, mental, financial or other limitations ... so it can be nice when the government does things like build dams + levees, hires/trains firefighters, sprays for mosquitoes, etc.
In a way your right. BUT those same people decided to settle in an area that is guaranteed to be flooded (understand the area isn't one that "might" be flooded, it's guaranteed to be flooded). Of course the comeback would be that they were there years before it was changed to a flood run off zone. But the question then would be: They haven't done anything in all those years? Sorry but it's just not that hard to build something. You need a front end loader (they don't cost that much used, my BIL bought one for $2500) & tons of dirt just doesn't cost that much. So, what exactly was their plan. With the options open to them once the government says that they are going to flood that area their options are to learn to breath water or get out. Why do I get the feeling that their basic plan was no plan except to try to collect from the government every 5 years or so?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on May 25, 2011 13:46:23 GMT -5
"There should always be safety nets, but, people who can should be required to at least attempt to be self sufficient." They are. Pfffft!! Drug screen, employment applications, and work for benefits are all manadated. People WANTING to be on assistance is an insulting pub myth. (They seem to want them to cry ALL THE TIME-Pfffft!!) Dismal people - Thanks for all the Pub job programs...NOT!! Just further screwing the folks...
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 25, 2011 13:48:45 GMT -5
"There should always be safety nets, but, people who can should be required to at least attempt to be self sufficient." They are. Pfffft!! Drug screen, employment applications, and work for benefits are all manadated. People WANTING to be on assistance is an insulting pub myth. (They seem to want them to cry ALL THE TIME-Pfffft!!) Dismal people - Thanks for all the Pub job programs...NOT!! Just further screwing the folks... pfft Yeah, next time read the whole thing not just what you want to hem and haw about pffft if those who can were able to protect there property with the slightest incentive that it's mine and I want to save it, they show ethics pfft can you explain exactly what pfft is supposed to mean?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 13:52:59 GMT -5
I don't think self-reliance is frowned upon. But, I do think it is rather callous to suggest self-reliance in matters that require more money, education, & ability than many people have. Telling people to just build their own levees comes across as a big FU to the 90% of the population that is unable to do so for one reason or another. See, I think there's nothing more "FU" than waiting around and finding out that the government you've been paying taxes to for years hasn't been doing the job, and isn't going to help you. The point isn't that EVERYONE can do this ALL the time; it's not even that government SHOULDN'T DO IT-- I think government SHOULD do it. The point is that it's so frowned upon, laughed at, scorned, etc.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 13:53:55 GMT -5
It all goes back to the choices we ALL make. From whether or not to get an education, to whether or not to live in a flood zone. What kind of crazy talk is that?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 13:57:36 GMT -5
Warsaw
When did it become a government duty to provide jobs? Isnt it business that is supposed to provide jobs....and the government's job is to regulate the affairs and laws those businesses work under
Now making laws that spurs business growth i would agree is a great mandate....which in turn provides jobs....which spurs the economy....and begets more money thru taxes paid by employees
But the government's role should be minimal.....pollution, safety, etc
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 25, 2011 14:00:54 GMT -5
The point is that it's so frowned upon, laughed at, scorned, etc. I guess I haven't seen that people have any of those reactions to people that show some self-reliance. Personally, I am freaking impressed at those pictures & that those people were able to build the levees & save their houses. The govt isn't always going to be able to help you & they will be slow to act. Anything that you can do to help yourself can only help your outcome.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 14:05:52 GMT -5
We know there's a huge welfare class that like their lifestyle just fine, and we know there's a growing "drop out" class of people who are discouraged and "quitting" because they see dependency as better than wheel-spinning paying for the dependents.
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txbo
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Post by txbo on May 25, 2011 14:21:13 GMT -5
Thanks Paul for posting a picture of blacks on welfare wanting money from a black president. Could you not find a picture of the majority of welfare recipients who are actually white?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on May 25, 2011 14:24:47 GMT -5
Right, laws that boost business...all Pubs will pass is tax cuts for the rich, which worked once back in 1982- never since.. One black lady is no argument. My brother knows a lady who saw this person etc etc...EVERYONE would prefer a good job, with a living wage and health care- COMING 2014!! I think Paul likes these personal levees because he thinks everyone should have their own fort
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on May 25, 2011 14:31:17 GMT -5
"We know there's a huge welfare class that like their lifestyle just fine,"
Exactly. Racist mythology. And under Raygunism the nonrich have been squeezed to the point of ruin.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 25, 2011 14:33:01 GMT -5
Minutemen were members of teams of select men from the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. They provided a highly mobile, rapidly deployed force that allowed the colonies to respond immediately to war threats, hence the name.
The minutemen were among the first people to fight in the American Revolution. Their teams constituted about a quarter of the entire militia. Generally younger and more mobile, they served as part of a network for early response. (emphasis added) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen The founding of our nation was done by collaborative effort. By people not government. The militias were government.
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txbo
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Post by txbo on May 25, 2011 14:43:22 GMT -5
I don't think self-reliance is frowned upon. But, I do think it is rather callous to suggest self-reliance in matters that require more money, education, & ability than many people have. Telling people to just build their own levees comes across as a big FU to the 90% of the population that is unable to do so for one reason or another. See, I think there's nothing more "FU" than waiting around and finding out that the government you've been paying taxes to for years hasn't been doing the job, and isn't going to help you. The point isn't that EVERYONE can do this ALL the time; it's not even that government SHOULDN'T DO IT-- I think government SHOULD do it. The point is that it's so frowned upon, laughed at, scorned, etc. You don’t even believe that, who in their right mind would frown, laugh or scorn such an undertaking. Big deal three people out of 100’s of thousand had the means to build a levee around their house. Most build or farmed knowing it’s a designated spillway and now suffer the consequences. I would assume knowing all this they had flood insurance. They should have taken a queue from the Israelis and build on the high ground.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 25, 2011 14:47:53 GMT -5
I don't think self-reliance is frowned upon. But, I do think it is rather callous to suggest self-reliance in matters that require more money, education, & ability than many people have. Telling people to just build their own levees comes across as a big FU to the 90% of the population that is unable to do so for one reason or another. See, I think there's nothing more "FU" than waiting around and finding out that the government you've been paying taxes to for years hasn't been doing the job, and isn't going to help you. The point isn't that EVERYONE can do this ALL the time; it's not even that government SHOULDN'T DO IT-- I think government SHOULD do it. The point is that it's so frowned upon, laughed at, scorned, etc. Who the heck frowns upon, laughs at, or scorns self-reliance? I haven't seen that.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 25, 2011 14:56:05 GMT -5
Anyone ever give thought to the fact that many flood zones are caused by govt action or inaction?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 25, 2011 15:01:15 GMT -5
What about the fact that flood zones are mapped by the govt? Damn waste of govt. dollars, just let the people figure out if they are in a flood zone after it rains. No need wasting govt. money on stuff like that.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on May 25, 2011 15:07:07 GMT -5
They all say "That's the price you pay to live in paradise", a flood like this every 50 years...let's remain calm...
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on May 25, 2011 15:51:50 GMT -5
Thanks Paul for posting a picture of blacks on welfare wanting money from a black president. Could you not find a picture of the majority of welfare recipients who are actually white? I doubt he meant anything racist, just commenting on the post about "Pub myths." As for the rest of you statement, accusing somebody of racism is so 2008.
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