Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 13, 2019 8:58:26 GMT -5
I’m on a work trip (hello, sleep!), and just found out my mom’s sister died around midnight. Ugh. My mom and her brother were scheduled to fly up to see her today (Uncle is in KC, and mom is recovering from a surgery at our house, so they were flying together to Detroit). Aunt has one daughter, who also lives in KC, and she and her family left yesterday to drive out there and were about 30 minutes away, so they didn’t make it. 😕 I’m guessing funeral will be Monday, so mom will likely just change her flight and stay out there another day, but I was hoping I’d be able to go with her. My cousin is a hot mess and I don’t want my mom to have to shoulder the burden of dealing with her grief over losing her sister and then also the drama that cousin brings with her. I don’t know if I can make it happen though. I don’t fly home until tomorrow night, and I have another trip next Wednesday- Friday, and then a girls weekend. If I go, I want to take the kids with me just so I see them, but a 12 hour drive on Sunday and then again on Tuesday seems awfully cruel to them. DH is good with whatever I decide, so there’s that, but ugh. If I go, it’s to support my mom, who says she’s fine if I don’t go, but that doesn’t mean I’m not feeling guilty and conflicted. Don't take your kids. Agree.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 13, 2019 9:14:41 GMT -5
Hugs TCU.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 13, 2019 9:29:44 GMT -5
I would be upset if they just ignored the recommendation and say just go ahead and come. I wouldn't be upset if they supported his appeal based on his behaviors and the amount of time since the original charges, or if other members wrote on his behalf for the appeal, depending on my own experiences with the person I may very well write an appeal. Depending on my experiences with the person I may very well write a letter asking to deny the appeal too. I am guessing part of the appeal process would be looking at more evidence then just the one report to see if the person has changed or not. I read your other post as saying you wouldn't be okay with the committee granting the appeal if he went through that process. I may have misread. I was thinking committee was the local group, not BSA. It sucks that if he hadn't applied no one would know any better and things could continue on status quo. Which really drives home the point that you can't trust anyone.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 13, 2019 9:33:59 GMT -5
I’m on a work trip (hello, sleep!), and just found out my mom’s sister died around midnight. Ugh. My mom and her brother were scheduled to fly up to see her today (Uncle is in KC, and mom is recovering from a surgery at our house, so they were flying together to Detroit). Aunt has one daughter, who also lives in KC, and she and her family left yesterday to drive out there and were about 30 minutes away, so they didn’t make it. 😕 I’m guessing funeral will be Monday, so mom will likely just change her flight and stay out there another day, but I was hoping I’d be able to go with her. My cousin is a hot mess and I don’t want my mom to have to shoulder the burden of dealing with her grief over losing her sister and then also the drama that cousin brings with her. I don’t know if I can make it happen though. I don’t fly home until tomorrow night, and I have another trip next Wednesday- Friday, and then a girls weekend. If I go, I want to take the kids with me just so I see them, but a 12 hour drive on Sunday and then again on Tuesday seems awfully cruel to them. DH is good with whatever I decide, so there’s that, but ugh. If I go, it’s to support my mom, who says she’s fine if I don’t go, but that doesn’t mean I’m not feeling guilty and conflicted. Can you fly home a day early from this trip, or a day later for your next one? I'm guessing their work trips and changing those suck, but this is a good reason to do it. That would give you a little time with the kids and still be able to fly out for the funeral and be with your mom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:43:39 GMT -5
It sucks that if he hadn't applied no one would know any better and things could continue on status quo. Which really drives home the point that you can't trust anyone. When he first started showing up I was not happy about it at all and there was a lot of dread and apprehension, but it's been going well for everyone for almost 3 years now. I'm actually feeling that scouts is as good, if not better, for him than it is for Carrot. I totally understand him not being allowed to be a leader though. That decision was a good one.
Keep in mind my preference is still that he gets hit by a bus. I'm just trying to make the best of the not getting hit by a bus scenario.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Sept 13, 2019 10:04:53 GMT -5
I would be upset if they just ignored the recommendation and say just go ahead and come. I wouldn't be upset if they supported his appeal based on his behaviors and the amount of time since the original charges, or if other members wrote on his behalf for the appeal, depending on my own experiences with the person I may very well write an appeal. Depending on my experiences with the person I may very well write a letter asking to deny the appeal too. I am guessing part of the appeal process would be looking at more evidence then just the one report to see if the person has changed or not. I read your other post as saying you wouldn't be okay with the committee granting the appeal if he went through that process. I don't know, from the letter it didn't really seem to leave much wiggle room for an appeal. It didn't say anything about demonstrating change or extenuating circumstances, it said you could appeal if the background check wasn't accurate.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 13, 2019 10:49:11 GMT -5
MPL, I know that here if an adult is charged with domestic abuse and a child was present, they are also charged with child abuse. I don't know the legal wording, but I know the adult is charged with both.
If a child abuse conviction showed up, the decision is probably final.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Sept 13, 2019 10:59:52 GMT -5
Yeah, it will be hard to be away from your kids that long and no doubt you will feel guilty, but it seems like the best decision for everyone.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Sept 13, 2019 11:00:23 GMT -5
Thanks, ladies. I’m at a Women’s Leadership Summit conference and I selfishly don’t want to fly home early. It’s amazing so far.
I wasn’t particularly close to my aunt. They lived in Detroit and I grew up in SE Kansas. I’d usually see her and my uncle and cousin maybe one time per year growing up when they were back to see my grandparents or we (rarely) went there.
Still waiting on details, but at this point, I probably won’t go, and will instead focus on supporting my mom from afar, and then whatever she needs when she’s back at my house after she returns from Michigan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 11:24:19 GMT -5
MPL, I know that here if an adult is charged with domestic abuse and a child was present, they are also charged with child abuse. I don't know the legal wording, but I know the adult is charged with both. If a child abuse conviction showed up, the decision is probably final. I'd be interested to see what the background check pulled. There technically was a child related charge at one time because my older son was named in the domestic assault, but those charges were dropped in exchange for him pleading guilty to all the violating no contact order charges. It was when he was incarcerated after losing it and they figured he wasn't mentally able to stand trial and it kept DS out of having to go to court.
Felony Theft under $500 (Not applicable - GOC) GROSS MISD. THEFT (Not applicable - GOC) DRIVER MINOR CONSUMPTION POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPH SPEED 84/55 Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Obstruct Legal Process-Interfere w/Peace Officer Traffic - Open bottle law; Possession; crime described Domestic Abuse No Contact Order - Violate No Contact Order - Misdemeanor Traffic Regulation - Seat Belt Required - Driver and Passengers Must Use Traffic Regulation - Driver Must Carry Proof of Insurance when Operating Vehicle Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Terroristic Threats-Reckless Disregard Risk Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Seat Belt Required - Driver and Passengers Must Use Marijuana -Possess Sm. Amt. MJ - No Rem SEAT BELT REQUIRED - DRIVER AND PASSENGERS MUST USE
Of course, this is just MN. He has a nice list for WI and IL as well, I'm just not sure how to pull them. When he got turned down for that job after Carrot was born for his record, they sent a copy of the record and it had EVERYTHING. Every single probation violation charge for missing a court date and such. It was seriously an inch thick. I really think the magnitude part is driving this them more than anything.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Sept 13, 2019 12:03:19 GMT -5
... ummmm... what on earth made him decide to submit to a voluntary background check? If I was sitting in an office and saw that report (x 2 other states) I would want to ensure he isn't around or potentially driving scouts.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 13, 2019 12:10:57 GMT -5
MPL, I know that here if an adult is charged with domestic abuse and a child was present, they are also charged with child abuse. I don't know the legal wording, but I know the adult is charged with both. If a child abuse conviction showed up, the decision is probably final. I'd be interested to see what the background check pulled. There technically was a child related charge at one time because my older son was named in the domestic assault, but those charges were dropped in exchange for him pleading guilty to all the violating no contact order charges. It was when he was incarcerated after losing it and they figured he wasn't mentally able to stand trial and it kept DS out of having to go to court.
Felony Theft under $500 (Not applicable - GOC) GROSS MISD. THEFT (Not applicable - GOC) DRIVER MINOR CONSUMPTION POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPH SPEED 84/55 Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Obstruct Legal Process-Interfere w/Peace Officer Traffic - Open bottle law; Possession; crime described Domestic Abuse No Contact Order - Violate No Contact Order - Misdemeanor Traffic Regulation - Seat Belt Required - Driver and Passengers Must Use Traffic Regulation - Driver Must Carry Proof of Insurance when Operating Vehicle Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Terroristic Threats-Reckless Disregard Risk Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Disorderly Conduct-Offensive/Abusive/Noisy/Obscene Seat Belt Required - Driver and Passengers Must Use Marijuana -Possess Sm. Amt. MJ - No Rem SEAT BELT REQUIRED - DRIVER AND PASSENGERS MUST USE
Of course, this is just MN. He has a nice list for WI and IL as well, I'm just not sure how to pull them. When he got turned down for that job after Carrot was born for his record, they sent a copy of the record and it had EVERYTHING. Every single probation violation charge for missing a court date and such. It was seriously an inch thick. I really think the magnitude part is driving this them more than anything.
ETA - around here, once they pull you over and you're obnoxious. The cops will throw the book at you, to see what sticks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 12:12:43 GMT -5
His self-confidence is epic. He also has an "everything will work out fine" mentality. I'm sure he doesn't think it's that big of a deal. It might also be that he figured worst case they denied the leadership position.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 12:36:56 GMT -5
And now he's texting me again...
He said he's out in his truck crying after calling the council.
"I guess I can't go to the meetings anymore. Carrot is not going to be happy about that. I'll do my best to explain it to him. I probably wouldn't have gotten in so much trouble had I been in scouts when I was young, so I want him to stay with it. I could care less about myself or my feelings, but it's just how it effects Carrot that bothers me. I wish I would have just stayed out of leadership entirely, then I could have at least kept going to meetings. I'm really sorry to to be an embarrassment to you and Carrot"
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oped
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Post by oped on Sept 13, 2019 12:41:33 GMT -5
Can you make sure his sponsor or brother or whoever know this going on? Don’t want to see him spiral backward. He is sounding contrite and frankly I think this was an overreaction on the BS.
Im glad he wants to be positive about carrot staying in.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 13, 2019 12:47:07 GMT -5
And now he's texting me again...
He said he's out in his truck crying after calling the council.
"I guess I can't go to the meetings anymore. Carrot is not going to be happy about that. I'll do my best to explain it to him. I probably wouldn't have gotten in so much trouble had I been in scouts when I was young, so I want him to stay with it. I could care less about myself or my feelings, but it's just how it effects Carrot that bothers me. I wish I would have just stayed out of leadership entirely, then I could have at least kept going to meetings. I'm really sorry to to be an embarrassment to you and Carrot"
I have probably gotten too cynical for my own good over the years but reading that text just has me add "yada, yada, yada."
Now on a related but different subject: I know that someone had encouraged him to go after a leadership position. Is it possible that this was a ploy to remove him from BS because people were to chicken to speak to him outright? To me it always seemed odd that nobody would have known at least some of the problems he had in the past and, even without ever having had kids in BS, know that background checks have become a really big deal in recent years for them. So I am just wondering...
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Sept 13, 2019 12:48:07 GMT -5
His self-confidence is epic.This goes a long way to explaining why on earth he applied for a leadership position. How could he have imagined that would end well for him?! This said, I'm sorry for Carrot, and even for him (but less).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 12:51:48 GMT -5
He doesn't have a sponsor or do anything or see anyone about all his past mental health issues. Quit taking all prescribed meds probably 5 years ago...and honestly, he's doing better without them. They figure it was an interaction of a few that caused his break in 2013. His brother lives with him and is a leader in another pack, so I'm sure he's talked to him. I'm trying to let him know that there is still tons he can do with Carrot to help him in scouts outside of the meetings. The den meetings are so short that we usually end up doing a lot outside of them for the requirements anyhow and there are many electives he can work on. And really, half the kids have their parents drop them off and leave by this age anyhow. In two years he moves to the troop and that is all boy led anyhow. The adults are just on the sidelines.
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oped
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Post by oped on Sept 13, 2019 12:53:30 GMT -5
So in PA everyone needs background checked at this point to volunteer or participate in any capacity that serves kids. I wonder if this is happening routinely where parents with blemished records are being denied participation with their children?
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oped
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Post by oped on Sept 13, 2019 12:54:27 GMT -5
He doesn't have a sponsor or do anything or see anyone about all his past mental health issues. Quit taking all prescribed meds probably 5 years ago...and honestly, he's doing better without them. They figure it was an interaction of a few that caused his break in 2013. His brother lives with him and is a leader in another pack, so I'm sure he's talked to him. I'm trying to let him know that there is still tons he can do with Carrot to help him in scouts outside of the meetings. The den meetings are so short that we usually end up doing a lot outside of them for the requirements anyhow and there are many electives he can work on. And really, half the kids have their parents drop them off and leave by this age anyhow. In two years he moves to the troop and that is all boy led anyhow. The adults are just on the sidelines.
Good points!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 12:58:52 GMT -5
Now on a related but different subject: I know that someone had encouraged him to go after a leadership position. Is it possible that this was a ploy to remove him from BS because people were to chicken to speak to him outright?
No. I don't think anyone (except maybe me!) wanted him out. They really, really need adult volunteers and he stepped up and offered to assist our past den leader without becoming one himself. Well, that leader unexpectedly had to step down due to work commits and suddenly he was promoted. Everyone likes him and as the committee chair I get all the scoop on any parents or kids there are issues with.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Sept 13, 2019 13:10:58 GMT -5
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Sept 13, 2019 15:18:38 GMT -5
His brother lives with him and is a leader in another pack, so I'm sure he's talked to him.MPL, wouldn't he have talked to his brother BEFORE he applied for a leadership position?!
ETA: I can't remember the details of the meets ... maybe Ex 2 can focus on doing that with Carrot instead? GREAT points about helping Carrot do the scouting things outside the meetings themselves, and it only being a question of 2 years before the troop is no longer led by adults. Two years probably seems like half a lifetime to Ex 2 now, but it goes so quickly (just an additional suggestion on what to say to Ex 2).
I hope you are at least feeling less stressed now with this finally out in the open. Hugs to you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 15:35:57 GMT -5
MPL, wouldn't he have talked to his brother BEFORE he applied for a leadership position?! He may have, I don't know. I don't know what insight his brother could have given him though. He's just another parent that signed his kid up for scouting and realized that it's 100% run by parent volunteers and someone from his son's den would have to step up and fill out the leader paperwork or they wouldn't get anything done.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 13, 2019 15:37:01 GMT -5
My sister is going to volunteer in the classroom she just retired from, so Pre-K kids. She has to have another background check.
But she doesn't have a record.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 15:37:08 GMT -5
I'm a lot less stressed now that he's not talking about just crashing the meetings!
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Sept 13, 2019 15:40:00 GMT -5
I can imagine MPL!!! OMG Theo your sister is insane LOL. IMO she should offer to sub, but not to volunteer!
This said, that's seems crazy that she JUST retired and now needs to pass a background check.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 13, 2019 15:47:09 GMT -5
I can imagine MPL!!! OMG Theo your sister is insane LOL. IMO she should offer to sub, but not to volunteer!
This said, that's seems crazy that she JUST retired and now needs to pass a background check.
She doesn't want to sub. As a volunteer, she only has to do the fun things. The program change this year and they have 3 kids who are a year younger than the usual age and all three are special needs and in diapers. She doesn't want to change diapers. She doesn't want to stand on the playground when it's cold. She doesn't want to help the kids get on the bus. She just wants to have fun. She said she will only volunteer in that room as long as the teacher she worked with is still working. She didn't meet the eligibility requirements to take the offer last year, but she is several years younger than my sister. She wants to be able to choose her hours and her days.
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oped
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Post by oped on Sept 13, 2019 16:47:43 GMT -5
As a volunteer, she only has to do the fun things. I'm not doing the co/op most of my friends developed/use this year. I could charge for my classes at that co op and maybe make a little money, but they never seem to work out there. I am doing the other co/op, which my friends who started their own I think are a little miffed even exists... they don't charge for classes at this one, just take parent taught and volunteers. My friends ask why i do it... well cause its hella fun. I started yesterday for fall. I have 20 kids in my class. The group gets me all the tech I need. Its a group of kids that are all well behaved, but also very into discussion and respond to questions, volunteer, collaborate... I'm doing a class using commercials to teach elements of persuasive writing and logical fallacy and I think its going to be the highlight of my week. I like being in control of what I do and when. I'm lucky to be in a position where i can volunteer time though. When and if insurance changes again I may have to do something else. I am currently getting paid for the homeschooling gig. But I volunteer tutoring my reading girl. I probably won't offer to do that again though. Its 3-4 hours a week at least and this will be our 2nd year, the program can take up to 3 to finish... that will be a chunk of commitment. But she's a great kid and i feel accomplishment in helping her learn. In future I would likely charge a nominal rate for homeschoolers, not going rate but enough to keep me in coffee and thai food at least.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Sept 13, 2019 16:56:49 GMT -5
enough to keep me in coffee and thai food at least.
Your DH charges for Thai Food?! (sorry Oped I couldn't resist LOL.)
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