geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 12, 2019 18:36:32 GMT -5
I would either answer as if I hadn't read the letter, or tell him to talk to the council on why he isn't getting the emails
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Sept 12, 2019 18:40:51 GMT -5
Does he know that you received that letter as well? I'd probably also go with "I think so, IDK why you aren't getting emails."
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Sept 12, 2019 18:43:38 GMT -5
The past two days have been bad for my kids. Harper has been on yellow light yesterday and today at kindergarten for talking when the teacher is talking and not following directions (I'm guessing the direction was to be quiet!). She was always on green in preK.
Chloe was a hellion at swim lessons tonight. Not listening. Not putting on her goggles. Crying because she didn't want to put her face under water (after she already did with no adverse effects), throwing a fit because she didn't want to jump in a second time. It was embarrassing. Oh, and at one point, she wasn't holding onto the wall with both hands and slipped off and the teacher had to rescue her. Ugh. (she had on a floating belt and I was also sitting two feet away, but still). Ugh.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 12, 2019 18:43:54 GMT -5
I kind of think the other members of the council are hoping you will handle it. I would just bring up the fact that you are the treasure and not in charge of emails he asks you to look into it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 12, 2019 19:41:18 GMT -5
Not to mention they have no clue about somebody's home situation.
Considering they now know his record you'd think they'd have common sense and tact to not involve a spouse or an ex spouse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 20:50:12 GMT -5
I'm home. I was running on high anxiety all evening, but I survived. When I didn't answer his texts he went and started texting someone else, "R" (his co-den leader from last year). He texts me back telling me that she said it was just going to be a couple parents and kids talking about scouting and they probably didn't need him. Then he said, 'they're probably afraid I'll scare the new kids away". (yeah, he totally knows and is just fishing to find out who else does).
Anyhow at the meeting after the new parents were gone. it was just me, Cubmaster, advancement chair, our charter org rep, and the other den leader from Carrot's den. "R" sends the kids off to clean up the track and turns to "B" (Cubmaster) and says, "You NEED to call F. He is texting me, asking about meetings and wondering why he's not getting emails, I don't know if he doesn't know or if he's just pretending, but it is not my position to talk to him about this". So, basically EVERYONE on the committee has gotten this letter. They did kind of look at me for a minute, maybe hoping I'd have some insight, but I got nothing. I guess I could tell them that he ignored all court orders of protection as well, so it doesn't surprise me that he'd ignore a simple request in the mail and pretend it never came, but I stayed quiet. He says he's going to call him and just refer to the letter and tell him he has to take anything up with the people that the letter says to, so we'll see. I guess my next order of business is going to be sitting down with Carrot and talking to him about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 21:20:35 GMT -5
And, he must have called. Ex 2.0 just texted me that he was "just told" that he couldn't attend scouts anymore because of his criminal background. He said he intends to fight it, but right now he's just really sad and worried how this is going to effect Carrot. I kind of figured that was probably the case. He can be a royal asshole, but he was loving scouting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 21:36:42 GMT -5
And....he says he's going to attend anyhow. Awesome.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Sept 12, 2019 21:52:07 GMT -5
Sorry you have to carry that burden, minnesotapaintlady. I'm sure it will not be easy to talk about with your DS.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Sept 13, 2019 1:57:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry MPL. This must be incredibly stressful.
Maybe wait to talk to Carrot until Ex2 talks to the committee? Dunno if there's any chance the committee might relent on his presence (not his being leader obviously).
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oped
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Post by oped on Sept 13, 2019 6:10:56 GMT -5
This is a great opportunity for him to display growth and maturity and calmly but emphatically proves their assumptions wrong. I hope that is what happens.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 13, 2019 7:16:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry. Going anyway isn't going to help his case as you know.
I hope he decides to take it up with the right people and not to cause a scene.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 7:22:16 GMT -5
This is a great opportunity for him to display growth and maturity and calmly but emphatically proves their assumptions wrong. I hope that is what happens. It would be. But my fear from past experience is this is perfect trigger material for him to both 1) start using and 2) have an epic police calling wig out at a scout meeting. The whole, "I'm still going to attend", "How could I not?", "I'm his dad!" thing has me thinking he's already gearing up. Not sure what to do. I'll give him a day or two to calm down then tell him I talked to the other committee members and got the scoop (even though I already knew) and that they will be required to ask him to leave if he shows up and remind him that he didn't want to "interfere with Carrot's journey in scouting" and that causing problems might get him removed from the program as well.
I might just have to tell the Cubmaster he plans to attend anyhow and ask him what I should do. Maybe it's as simple as changing the meeting date for the den meetings. We can't do anything about the Pack ones, but the den sets their own date/time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 7:23:58 GMT -5
I'm sorry MPL. This must be incredibly stressful. Maybe wait to talk to Carrot until Ex2 talks to the committee? Dunno if there's any chance the committee might relent on his presence (not his being leader obviously). The committee is staying completely hands off on this. They said he has to follow the letter and all communication needs to be at the district/council level. They apparently aren't going to override any of it at the chapter level.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 13, 2019 7:31:28 GMT -5
I'm sorry MPL. This must be incredibly stressful. Maybe wait to talk to Carrot until Ex2 talks to the committee? Dunno if there's any chance the committee might relent on his presence (not his being leader obviously). I wouldn't be ok with that decision as a parent.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 13, 2019 7:39:00 GMT -5
This is a great opportunity for him to display growth and maturity and calmly but emphatically proves their assumptions wrong. I hope that is what happens. It would be. But my fear from past experience is this is perfect trigger material for him to both 1) start using and 2) have an epic police calling wig out at a scout meeting. The whole, "I'm still going to attend", "How could I not?", "I'm his dad!" thing has me thinking he's already gearing up. Not sure what to do. I'll give him a day or two to calm down then tell him I talked to the other committee members and got the scoop (even though I already knew) and that they will be required to ask him to leave if he shows up and remind him that he didn't want to "interfere with Carrot's journey in scouting" and that causing problems might get him removed from the program as well.
I might just have to tell the Cubmaster he plans to attend anyhow and ask him what I should do. Maybe it's as simple as changing the meeting date for the den meetings. We can't do anything about the Pack ones, but the den sets their own date/time.
I don't think changing the dates for meetings is going to solve anything. It may stop him from coming to one or two, but then he is either going to ask Carrot when the next date is, or ask you. Do you really want him probing Carrot for the information or putting you in a position to either give the date/refuse to tell him, or lie to him about when it is. Sadly you are just in a sucky position and while the best result is for your Ex to suck it up, try and petition the counsel and if they still refuse take a step back and accept it, I don't see that happening. Will other parents do you think will write a letter saying that he has changed and appeal on his behalf. I think the only chance of him succeeding in being allowed is it others appeal for him. I think at the most realistic best outcome for you is, Carrot will end up not going to the events when he has him and they will find alternative things to do. The first few weeks/months your ex may complain and Carrot will feel bad about not having his dad there at the events, but that will fade and it will become normal not to have dad there. Worst case I think is dad will blow up when asked to leave at a meeting, Carrot will see it and decide he wants nothing to do with boy scouts if his dad can't be there.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Sept 13, 2019 7:43:23 GMT -5
This is a great opportunity for him to display growth and maturity and calmly but emphatically proves their assumptions wrong. I hope that is what happens. It would be. But my fear from past experience is this is perfect trigger material for him to both 1) start using and 2) have an epic police calling wig out at a scout meeting. The whole, "I'm still going to attend", "How could I not?", "I'm his dad!" thing has me thinking he's already gearing up. Not sure what to do. I'll give him a day or two to calm down then tell him I talked to the other committee members and got the scoop (even though I already knew) and that they will be required to ask him to leave if he shows up and remind him that he didn't want to "interfere with Carrot's journey in scouting" and that causing problems might get him removed from the program as well.
I might just have to tell the Cubmaster he plans to attend anyhow and ask him what I should do. Maybe it's as simple as changing the meeting date for the den meetings. We can't do anything about the Pack ones, but the den sets their own date/time.
This has been your fear for years. If he genuinely is going to 'wig out' then if this isn't the trigger something else will be the cause. You can't be responsible for his mental health or actions. I know you know this just wanted to remind you . I also understand that your biggest concern is Carrot.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 13, 2019 7:49:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry MPL. This must be incredibly stressful. Maybe wait to talk to Carrot until Ex2 talks to the committee? Dunno if there's any chance the committee might relent on his presence (not his being leader obviously). I wouldn't be ok with that decision as a parent. See and this is where I am mixed feelings. Part of me understands not being okay with it, but another part of me does believe that people can change and when do they get to let their past go to. If his charges were 7(?) years ago, and he did his time, since then has changed when does he get credit for that. (which I guess will be demonstrated some by how he handles this). If he has had been going to events for a year now or longer, and there has been no issues and considering others were suggesting that he apply to be a leader, I am assuming his behavior has been more then just okay, do I judge on who he was or who he is. And knowing kids who were in scouts and their parents growing up, I seriously doubt he is the only one who has a record. I would actually expect that there are parents who are currently using drugs and stuff who are still part of the group, they are just smart enough to either not to have gotten caught or not to apply to a position with a background check.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 7:55:22 GMT -5
This has been your fear for years. If he genuinely is going to 'wig out' then if this isn't the trigger something else will be the cause. You can't be responsible for his mental health or actions. I know you know this just wanted to remind you . I also understand that your biggest concern is Carrot. Funny thing, I've been having that exact same conversation with my older son the past couple weeks. His best friend was diagnosed with bi-polar a few months ago and DS will come home some days just freaking out because of what someone said or did around his friend. We're talking extreme drama here. He is convinced that he alone has to ensure his friend doesn't commit suicide and it's stressing him out to no end. It's actually really starting to become a problem in our house.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 13, 2019 8:00:44 GMT -5
My brother wouldn't move out of my parent's house because he was certain he had to stay there to protect them for each other. That did not end well. There are some really good books on healthy boundaries and supporting people with mental illness. The differences between supporting and enabling. Since your son likes to read maybe he will listen better to a book then to a parent.
That being said, it wasn't until I really started getting training with my job on how to support metal disabilities that I realized how many mistakes I had made in my personal life.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Sept 13, 2019 8:04:29 GMT -5
This has been your fear for years. If he genuinely is going to 'wig out' then if this isn't the trigger something else will be the cause. You can't be responsible for his mental health or actions. I know you know this just wanted to remind you . I also understand that your biggest concern is Carrot. Funny thing, I've been having that exact same conversation with my older son the past couple weeks. His best friend was diagnosed with bi-polar a few months ago and DS will come home some days just freaking out because of what someone said or did around his friend. We're talking extreme drama here. He is convinced that he alone has to ensure his friend doesn't commit suicide and it's stressing him out to no end. It's actually really starting to become a problem in our house.
Oh no... poor kid (both of them). Can you ask the school counselor to talk to your son and help him to understand he is not responsible?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 8:04:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't be ok with that decision as a parent. See and this is where I am mixed feelings. Part of me understands not being okay with it, but another part of me does believe that people can change and when do they get to let their past go to. If his charges were 7(?) years ago, and he did his time, since then has changed when does he get credit for that. (which I guess will be demonstrated some by how he handles this). If he has had been going to events for a year now or longer, and there has been no issues and considering others were suggesting that he apply to be a leader, I am assuming his behavior has been more then just okay, do I judge on who he was or who he is. And knowing kids who were in scouts and their parents growing up, I seriously doubt he is the only one who has a record. I would actually expect that there are parents who are currently using drugs and stuff who are still part of the group, they are just smart enough to either not to have gotten caught or not to apply to a position with a background check. The parents and leaders all really like him. I'm assuming if told that the reason he's not there is he failed the background check, they'll be more leery because they don't know what the charges are. I'm still not even sure what they picked out and am guessing it's just because there are so many. Most are bar fight type stuff, but I'm wondering if there wasn't a child related charge with the domestic assault? Meanwhile, there is another parent there that is a complete asshole. He takes it on himself to discipline other kids and is always yelling at his own son. We just found out that one of the parents in that den pulled their son out of scouting because of him, so that's another conversation that the committee is having. They're going to sit down with him at the parent meeting next week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 8:19:38 GMT -5
Funny thing, I've been having that exact same conversation with my older son the past couple weeks. His best friend was diagnosed with bi-polar a few months ago and DS will come home some days just freaking out because of what someone said or did around his friend. We're talking extreme drama here. He is convinced that he alone has to ensure his friend doesn't commit suicide and it's stressing him out to no end. It's actually really starting to become a problem in our house.
Oh no... poor kid (both of them). Can you ask the school counselor to talk to your son and help him to understand he is not responsible? I had thought about making him an appointment somewhere to talk to someone, but that would be better. He didn't like when I took him to counseling at all in middle school. He needs to focus more on his own life and the things he can control.
Friend spent the entire weekend at our house last weekend and DS got way behind on homework so this week was fun for him. Now he's saying this Saturday after a scout service project in the morning he's going to take his friend out to lunch (third time in a couple weeks and DS pays), then to a movie because "they need a break after all the stress Sophia put Daniel through this week". Um...you both need a break because of relationship problems your friend is having?
I get being a friend but it's like he's starting to act like they're one person.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Sept 13, 2019 8:20:06 GMT -5
My baby is 1/4 century old today. Where did that time go?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 13, 2019 8:22:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't be ok with that decision as a parent. See and this is where I am mixed feelings. Part of me understands not being okay with it, but another part of me does believe that people can change and when do they get to let their past go to. If his charges were 7(?) years ago, and he did his time, since then has changed when does he get credit for that. (which I guess will be demonstrated some by how he handles this). If he has had been going to events for a year now or longer, and there has been no issues and considering others were suggesting that he apply to be a leader, I am assuming his behavior has been more then just okay, do I judge on who he was or who he is. And knowing kids who were in scouts and their parents growing up, I seriously doubt he is the only one who has a record. I would actually expect that there are parents who are currently using drugs and stuff who are still part of the group, they are just smart enough to either not to have gotten caught or not to apply to a position with a background check. I agree people can change, but they know its because of criminal charges, just not specifics. If they're willing to ignore the recommendations of the people who saw the backgroubd check because they like the guy who else are they willing to look the other way for? I'm jaded and trust bs about as much as I trust the catholic church, but the background check was done for a reason. If he's changed he can handle it like an adult and appeal. Actions have consequences and if he can't handle that why should he be given more leeway?
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Sept 13, 2019 8:28:18 GMT -5
I’m on a work trip (hello, sleep!), and just found out my mom’s sister died around midnight. Ugh. My mom and her brother were scheduled to fly up to see her today (Uncle is in KC, and mom is recovering from a surgery at our house, so they were flying together to Detroit). Aunt has one daughter, who also lives in KC, and she and her family left yesterday to drive out there and were about 30 minutes away, so they didn’t make it. 😕
I’m guessing funeral will be Monday, so mom will likely just change her flight and stay out there another day, but I was hoping I’d be able to go with her. My cousin is a hot mess and I don’t want my mom to have to shoulder the burden of dealing with her grief over losing her sister and then also the drama that cousin brings with her. I don’t know if I can make it happen though. I don’t fly home until tomorrow night, and I have another trip next Wednesday- Friday, and then a girls weekend. If I go, I want to take the kids with me just so I see them, but a 12 hour drive on Sunday and then again on Tuesday seems awfully cruel to them. DH is good with whatever I decide, so there’s that, but ugh. If I go, it’s to support my mom, who says she’s fine if I don’t go, but that doesn’t mean I’m not feeling guilty and conflicted.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 13, 2019 8:36:32 GMT -5
I would be upset if they just ignored the recommendation and say just go ahead and come. I wouldn't be upset if they supported his appeal based on his behaviors and the amount of time since the original charges, or if other members wrote on his behalf for the appeal, depending on my own experiences with the person I may very well write an appeal. Depending on my experiences with the person I may very well write a letter asking to deny the appeal too. I am guessing part of the appeal process would be looking at more evidence then just the one report to see if the person has changed or not. I read your other post as saying you wouldn't be okay with the committee granting the appeal if he went through that process.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 13, 2019 8:40:40 GMT -5
TCU- I am sorry. Were you close to your aunt? We are going to Grandmotherilaws funeral tomorrow driving down today. The girls and I have been waiting on DH for about an hour now. What ever your decide be at peace with it.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Sept 13, 2019 8:41:29 GMT -5
I’m on a work trip (hello, sleep!), and just found out my mom’s sister died around midnight. Ugh. My mom and her brother were scheduled to fly up to see her today (Uncle is in KC, and mom is recovering from a surgery at our house, so they were flying together to Detroit). Aunt has one daughter, who also lives in KC, and she and her family left yesterday to drive out there and were about 30 minutes away, so they didn’t make it. 😕 I’m guessing funeral will be Monday, so mom will likely just change her flight and stay out there another day, but I was hoping I’d be able to go with her. My cousin is a hot mess and I don’t want my mom to have to shoulder the burden of dealing with her grief over losing her sister and then also the drama that cousin brings with her. I don’t know if I can make it happen though. I don’t fly home until tomorrow night, and I have another trip next Wednesday- Friday, and then a girls weekend. If I go, I want to take the kids with me just so I see them, but a 12 hour drive on Sunday and then again on Tuesday seems awfully cruel to them. DH is good with whatever I decide, so there’s that, but ugh. If I go, it’s to support my mom, who says she’s fine if I don’t go, but that doesn’t mean I’m not feeling guilty and conflicted. Don't take your kids.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 13, 2019 8:49:44 GMT -5
One of the things that I have really valued from MPL over the years is the deeper understanding of the long-term effects of what her husband did when it comes to her family. My initial reaction is more in line with rae's. But then I think about the fact that Carrot really likes scouting, it's been a positive experience for both him and his dad, and that it keeps them out of trouble that carrot's dad is more likely to get into without the structure. He is more of a danger to MPL's family when he is pushed out of these things. I'm not sure there's much to be gained, as a community, from permanently ostracisizing offenders. It disconnects them from accountability and creates situations where they have fewer incentives to behave. I read recently that many abusers have personality disorders (BPD, NPD) that explain (note: does not EXCUSE) a lot of the attitudes that are precursors for abuse. Being pushed out of community increases the triggers and the likelihood they will do something stupid and destructive.
Its just a big shit sandwich, basically. It is clear that it would be better for MPL's family to have him involved (but not leading) scouting. It's not clear what the downsides are for other kids or families, as long as the situations are supervised.
Note: I don't trust BSA either. I pretty much don't trust any large organization at this point.
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