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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 8, 2011 14:30:13 GMT -5
As I was driving in from the grocery store this afternoon, I ran into Betsy's friend. Betsy is the woman that I got management to break down her door last fall and called EMS on.
This friend doesn't like me, but she is concerned enough about neighbor to ask me to keep an eye on her. Last time I saw Betsy was a week ago Friday when we went to dinner. We've probably been out to eat 2-3x since I have gotten back.
Betsy's not eating well. Her primary care doctor is concerned about her cholesterol, so she's decided to go vegetarian. However, she is not getting sufficient protein. Last few times we've been out, anything that has had protein in it, she's not eaten. Her breathing is labored and she's not using her O2. Friend said that her apartment is an obstacle course (it is) and she's afraid Betsy's going to trip over something. Not only that, there sounds like there's some paranoia involved - that management is coming into her apartment and moving things. She thinks her SIL is reading her emails (he very well may be, he set up her email and knows her password).
I guess that I'm kind of pissed that her daughter's not up her helping. Last time I daughter was in town (she lives 20 mile south of town, so not a huge commute) was 3 weeks ago. As far as I'm concerned, she needs to be up here at least once/week to make sure her mom has what she needs. Friends are doing her shopping and errands for her, she can't do them herself. She is driving a little, but I'm somewhat concerned in that she needs O2 to drive and won't use it. What happens if she passes out?
At this point, I really think that unless her daughter's going to be up at the very minimum weekly, she needs to go into an assisted living situation.
So here's my problem. I have her SIL's phone number and email address, but I do not have her daughter's. Betsy detests her SIL and she finds out that I talked to him, she'd consider it a huge disloyalty to her.
Her mental/physical state has declined tremendously in the last year. I have no idea if her retiring and the boredom is exacerbating the issue, or if this is a natural decline. I have no idea as to how old this woman is, she won't tell me.
So much for my nice, relaxing Sunday. A little cooking, a little planting, maybe open up a bottle of wine and relax with a Netflix DVD. Not gonna happen now.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 8, 2011 14:36:06 GMT -5
can you email SIL and ask the daughter to call you?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 8, 2011 14:40:56 GMT -5
Email addy is at work, I won't be able to do it until tomorrow.
From what I understand, the daughter was up here for several weekends while I was gone. But Betsy's physical/mental state does a 180° so quickly that someone needs to be checking on her regularly.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 8, 2011 14:43:23 GMT -5
Mich, you are such a sweetheart for doing what you do for this woman, when her own daughter is not or will not or cannot be bothered. Maybe the daughter simply cannot deal with it, or has too much other stuff going on in her own life.
Unfortunately, unless you are legally designated to care for her, there's not going to be much you can do. A family member needs to get involved, or at least a third party of Betsy's choosing. If local social services are more acceptable to her than family, then so be it. Her health, combined with her living conditions, are a hazard. From what you say, she still appears to be capable of making some decisions. How sound and rational those decisions are, I cannot say, since I don't see her. If her mental health has declined to the point where she cannot take care of herself, then I don't see what choice you have, except to contact the family and let them contact the daughter. Someone has to tell this child that her mother is in trouble, and action needs to be taken.
Look at it this way: if you do nothing, knowing what you know, honoring her wishes, and Betsy is injured or dies as a result of her living conditions, how would you feel? If you contact the family, and she hates you for it, but she gets the care she needs, how would you feel? Which can you live with?
Mich, you don't have nice, neat answer on this one. I give you all the credit for trying to find one. But in this case, you may be damned either way.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 8, 2011 14:48:27 GMT -5
Look at it this way: if you do nothing, knowing what you know, honoring her wishes, and Betsy is injured or dies as a result of her living conditions, how would you feel? If you contact the family, and she hates you for it, but she gets the care she needs, how would you feel? Which can you live with?
So in other words, I'm in the exact same place I was last fall when I called EMS on her.....
Rock, meet hard place.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 8, 2011 15:22:48 GMT -5
Yup. I know you want a neat and tidy answer. Sometimes, life throws curveballs, rocks, sticks, and spears. You got a curveball and a rock on this one. I don't fault you in the least for doing what you can, but legally (and Swamp can correct me if I am wrong), I think you can only do so much, unless you are a relative or legally designated to assist. You may have to do the best thing, and not the "right" thing this time.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 8, 2011 15:33:52 GMT -5
I'll go down and check on her and try to assess her situation. That'll give me a little more idea as to what I'll be walking into.
OK, I"m not going to call or email anyone. I just sat downstairs and chatted with her for a few minutes and everything seems fine. Her apartment doesn't really look any different and she doesn't either. She did say that she was tired so took a nap and was surprised that she slept a couple hours.
As far as I'm concerned, this was a false alarm. Whew!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 8, 2011 17:03:01 GMT -5
Snerdley....I have been VERY careful to stay out of her life. We meet up for dinner a couple times/month and chat - that is the total extent of my being involved in her life. That has been my whole point of this. I do not want to get overly involved here, but I also do not want her to wind up dead on the floor and no one knows until her cat starts to eat her.
However, when friends need to do Betsy's grocery shopping for her when her daughter lives 20 miles down the road, there is a disconnect somewhere. SHE NEEDS HELP. Simple as that. I know she wants to stay in her own home, but if she does, she's going to need help and more than she gets from her daughter currently.
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Genuine GA Peach
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Post by Genuine GA Peach on May 8, 2011 20:00:39 GMT -5
Mich - we've gone thru this with several elderly folks at church. Hugs to you for your efforts. It's very tough to help when somebody insists they don't need help (and obviously they do) or they don't want 'to be a burden'. One of the ladies (Agnes) we drove to church has now moved in with her daughter. She appreciated people coming to get her, but didn't want to be a burden. Agnes also had a very good neighbor who checked on her daily and drove her around to do her errands. All of us had Agnes' daughter's phone number, and her daughter was trying to 'do what mom wanted' and do what was best. Her daughter finally had to force the issue and tell Agnes it was time to come live with her. Betsy is very fortunate to have such caring neighbors. Hopefully once you talk with her daughter, you'll have more alternatives.
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on May 8, 2011 20:07:33 GMT -5
until her cat starts to eat her
Mich's biggest fear with Gizzy and Gomez ;D
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on May 8, 2011 21:57:44 GMT -5
That might be nice for Mich.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 7:03:34 GMT -5
That might be nice for Mich.
Not gonna go there!
In any case, I asked Betsy if she wanted to go out for burgers this week some time and she jumped on it (which makes me think that a lot of her problems are caused by her isolation). I'm meeting TD Friday for the weekend and have PT Wed. (I do nothing after PT - she beats the shit out of me). So it'll have to be either today or tomorrow.
2 reasons.....I can be sure she'll be getting some protein (I'm thinking either Red Robin or SmashBurger) and make an assessment as to how well she's getting around outside.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on May 9, 2011 7:03:45 GMT -5
Call the bureau of aging to evaluate her. Maybe she cannot be alone any longer.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 7:05:23 GMT -5
Do cats eat a lot of people? I have never heard of that before and now i see that on the board regularly.
They will, if there is no other source of food.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on May 9, 2011 7:14:38 GMT -5
The bureau of aging actually has the authority to do something if she is a danger to herself. Her health is more important than her feelings. Plus BOA is experienced in dealing with older folks.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 7:22:06 GMT -5
I'm not going to call anyone other than her daughter, Blue. If there was no one else, then I'd consider it. But there are other alternatives to this and I do agree with Snerdley, it is a little intrusive.
Betsy has had home health come by after her recent hospitalization (and I believe that they were making visits through Jan., she was still being visited when I went out to TD's for my surgery) and I'm sure that they assessed her situation. While things have changed since she retired, they haven't so much since she was hospitalized in Dec.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 7:26:03 GMT -5
TGH and I went through the don't-want-to-be-a-burden stuff with MIL. Her not wanting to be a burden became the burden, and it started 17 years before she died!
ETA: DGS's great-grandmother just turned 91. She was getting ever more dotty and forgetful and unsteady on her feet until two of the granddaughters stepped in and started talking with her about assisted living. They researched some places that looked good and we close by her home, took her to visit them, and finally got her to agree that it was a good idea.
She's been there since just after Christmas, and DGS says that the transformation is positively astounding. When he went to pick her up to take her to a family get together to celebrate her birthday last Saturday, she was disappointed that she was going to miss a bridge game with her friends.
When he visited with her at Christmas before she moved, he had to explain to her who he was and which granddaughter had been his mother. When he went to pick her up last weekend, she not only knew who he was, but reminded him that it had been seven years since his mother died. She knew everybody at her birthday party, including all the little ones.
She's still unsteady on her feet, of course, but apparently her biggest problem living alone in her own house was isolation.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 8:34:15 GMT -5
but apparently her biggest problem living alone in her own house was isolation.
This is my concern. The decline has really come since she retired this past year. She worked for a couple weeks in Sept. and did really well. It's only been since then that I've noticed it.
Even though she's living in an apartment and has friends locally who come to see her, I think that she probably spends >90% of her time alone. Last summer, she was going to an exercise class for arthritics, but she's decided to bypass it this year.
I think I'm going to strongly suggest that she join it again this summer.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 9, 2011 8:37:21 GMT -5
Yup. I know you want a neat and tidy answer. Sometimes, life throws curveballs, rocks, sticks, and spears. You got a curveball and a rock on this one. I don't fault you in the least for doing what you can, but legally (and Swamp can correct me if I am wrong), I think you can only do so much, unless you are a relative or legally designated to assist. You may have to do the best thing, and not the "right" thing this time. You can only be involved as much as the person wants you to be. However, in NY, there is a Mental Health Guardianship proceeding where "anyone with an interest" can file a petition with the court to be named a person's guardian. Usually it's a relative who does it, but on occasion it has been the Department of Social SErvices or a friend. The court has to have a hearing to decide if it's necessary and if necessary, to what extent.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 9, 2011 8:39:11 GMT -5
but apparently her biggest problem living alone in her own house was isolation. This is my concern. The decline has really come since she retired this past year. She worked for a couple weeks in Sept. and did really well. It's only been since then that I've noticed it. Even though she's living in an apartment and has friends locally who come to see her, I think that she probably spends >90% of her time alone. Last summer, she was going to an exercise class for arthritics, but she's decided to bypass it this year. I think I'm going to strongly suggest that she join it again this summer. I've noticed a huge decline in my mom's mental capacity since she retired. She was a hairdresser, so she had a steady stream of different people to talk to. I think it's the lack of contact with people. I've tried to get her to volunteer or do something, but she won't.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 9, 2011 8:39:54 GMT -5
I don't know if isolation is that bad. I think being in a facility and never having any time to yourself would even be worse. I'd rather be with a bunch of people than sitting at home alone, but that's just me.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 9, 2011 8:41:24 GMT -5
Mich, I think it's the right thing to encourage her to get out and decrease her isolation. Whether she works for money, volunteers or goes to a class at the local community college or adult ed, it will keep her brain stimulated, and let her know that she still has value and something to contribute outside her own four wall.. If you are able to do so, offer to take her there and pick her up. If not, are there driver services that can do it for a flat per-month fee?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 8:42:18 GMT -5
BTW, i am still waiting to hear about cats eating people. Is that a common occurence?
Yes, Snerdley. Cats will eat dead people if they have no other food.
Google is your friend.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 8:44:46 GMT -5
Yes, but don't you earn some right in your life at some point to be allowed to just do what you want? At some point, maybe you don't want to socialize, etc. Personally, i find socializing to be tiring. Small talk is draining. And, i used to be able to blab away but at this point in my life i can actually type faster than i can talk!
Snerdley....she gloms onto anyone who stops by to see her, so she DOES want to socialize.
In the last year or so that we've been going out to dinner, I can't think of a single time where she's declined my invite. In fact, there have been some evenings where I've not felt so sociable but realized that she wanted some company.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 9, 2011 8:45:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Swamp. My mother worked in the NYS mental health system for years, and I recall that law. It seems like a fair and reasonable thing to have, but I don't know if every state has it. My mother, who is in her 80s, still works part time, not so much for the money, but rather because she needs to get out of her apartment a few days a week and be useful.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 9, 2011 8:47:38 GMT -5
I don't want to google. I want to have useless pointless conversations instead with anonymous people. You soooo don't "get" me! Sounds like living at an adult home when you have Alzheimers........
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 8:48:30 GMT -5
If you are able to do so, offer to take her there and pick her up.
I can't do that. My schedule is busy enough as it is and she does drive. There's no reason why she cannot drive herself to a couple exercise classes/week.
Don't know if there are any car services around here though.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 9, 2011 9:47:22 GMT -5
Oh, good, I was not sure she could drive. And from the sound of things, I figured betweeen work and PT, you probably had enough to do anyway. The car service (or even a prepaid taxi service) could be a just-in-case backup, since she can drive. It sounds like what she really needs is a reason to get out, rather than a means.
Mich, what talents does she have? Is she the kind of person who could mentor kids in a school setting? Work with people in her own age group? Do you have a sense of where she would fit? Maybe, if there is a United Way-type of umbrella organization in the area, they could look at what they need, and suggest a spot for her.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2011 9:54:52 GMT -5
Being around children is the absolute LAST thing that she needs.
She has COPD and manages to pick up any respiratory crud that is roaming about. In fact, it's largely the reason why she retired. She was a dorm manager at the university and being exposed to college kids and their sniffles had her sick all the time. If I even think I'm coming down with something, I avoid her. What would make me miserable for a day or two could put her into the hospital (and has).
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on May 9, 2011 10:12:49 GMT -5
Oh, wow, OK....that ends being around kids, sick people, hospitals, etc. I volunteer with AIDS/HIV patients, so I totally understand the issue. Maybe an office-type environment in a non-profit, where she would be helping, but not in danger of catching anything?
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