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Post by pig on May 3, 2011 10:18:24 GMT -5
I'll stick to what I do well Rob, good luck at painting.
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Post by robbase on May 3, 2011 10:56:29 GMT -5
the point you miss is, if there are not ENOUGH painters and the prospects look good in that field, I can get train / practice enough to get an entry level job and work myself up the ranks with skill and practice (again this is just a made up example, not sure if painters are in demand / good future prospects, but if they were and my job opportunities non-existent or limited you would see my happy butt swinging a paint brush soon). Also I would not be directly competing with the dudes that can paint without tape (at first), because if there is a dire need for painters they would take me with my limited skills at a lower salary / lower on the totem pole
would I have an even swap in current lifestyle? no, but after 99 weeks unemployed you gotta do something (IMO). And I have confidence I could work my way up the ranks (with hard work and practice)
My guiding philosophy is I am entitled to nothing, deserve nothing, and due nothing from the world. You have to take advantage of opportunities and work hard & be smart about it.
If necessary I can fold my life back into a one bedroom or studio apartment. Now would I be happy about it? no, but I could accept it and move fwd instead of hanging on to a lost dream and complaining to everyone about my situation instead of doing something about it.
And IMO therein lies the problem, if a person loses there $90K a year job they automatically think they are / should be entitled to something similar, even if they have to change career fields...and if they can't than it is somoene else's fault and someone else should fix it or provide for them in accordance witht he standards they are used to ("entitled to")
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Post by pig on May 3, 2011 11:13:17 GMT -5
And IMO therein lies the problem, if a person loses there $90K a year job they automatically think they are / should be entitled to something similar, even if they have to change career fields...
I would just move overseas. Why would you take a 75% pay cut and do something you don't like or are not good at?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 3, 2011 11:22:59 GMT -5
Rob I see a few things in that senerio that I disagree with. I do know it is just a senerio not an actual story. First people pick things like painter or carpenter and say they can learn the trade and work their way up. You can do that, it's true. But what happens if the person is already getting older? What happens when they get older? Trades like painting or roofing, carpentry etc are very rough on the body. It is no big deal when you are 25 or even 30 but when you are on the north side of 35 it is no longer a good way to live. DH was a carpenter for years. By the time he was 35 his body no longer had the stamina for all the abuse a job like that gives it. And as a second act it is hopefully for at least another 20 years. That type of job gets hard fast trust me. The second part about downsizing is good but doesn't always easily translate for someone who is slightly older. What I can do as a single person is one thing but what I can do when I have a family is completely different thing. Even if I wanted to a landlord wouldn't be allowed to rent a family of 4 a studio apt or even a 1 bedroom. It is simply against code. I have known families that went to live in their families basement for a while but that type of living gets tough on all involved fast.
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Post by pig on May 4, 2011 10:57:50 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 21:33:07 GMT -5
"Out of touch much?"
Probably. I know of many engineering jobs that are open (Bachelors required). They sit open as there are no qualified candidates, no stack of resumes to review. Most would higher MS/PhD if they existed, pay is high enough it could support 50-80K in student loan from the extra schooling. Several pages of ads in the newspaper for Nurses, Medical technicians, etc. Again, a PhD in art isn't marketable to industry and there are limited opportunities for the museum jobs, etc.
I don't agree with the IQ comment, everyone has the ability to learn and work hard. Additionally, charter schools that work off lottery systems have shown they can educate all children to the college level. Somehow these same "low IQ" people have no problem learning how to play video games, use smartphones, etc when they want to. Just an excuse (yes it might require more work for some people but they can still learn).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 5:21:34 GMT -5
No kidding. My kids were both in Gifted. Any kid with parental support at home could have done what they did.
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Post by pig on May 5, 2011 9:04:31 GMT -5
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 5, 2011 9:10:45 GMT -5
Those "pages and pages" of engineering jobs that "lie open" are just ruses. The candidates have already been identified and they are coming right over from India as soon as the employers convince the government that there are no local candidates. I worked for one of the top engineering professional societies and I can tell you there are plenty of unemployed engineers in the United States because they want more than a penny an hour and they can't be deported if they open their mouths. The American Society of Civil Engineers once had their own job bank for engineers and they were shut down for anti-trust violations by angry staffing firms. Let the engineering societies start job banks and contacting the Department of Labor with good candidates and see how fast that ruse dries up. I agree! DH is an engineer and lots of our friends are also. Almost all have at least a masters in engineering and some a PHD. They regularly apply for jobs posted like that. Most of the time they never get a response but sometimes they will get a very strang turn down. The letter will sound strangely upset that someone with such great qualifications applied for the job.
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Post by lulubean on May 5, 2011 9:42:41 GMT -5
It is true that some job postings are already filled.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 5, 2011 10:54:57 GMT -5
Actually, it's great to live in a country where opportunity has been created for so many people with so few marketable skills to get started earning an honest living.And the ignorant assume all these jobs are min wage counter/kitchen help. McDonald's also has staff that are store managers, administrative(finance, accounting, traffic, inventory, purchasing, IT, etc.). My younger brother got his first job in the late 70s working for a Nathan's store working the counter. He was with them for nearly six years through college. At one point he was promoted to store manager, a move that groomed him for his current job in his career field. He manages about a dozen or so staffers in a govt agency. My eyes were opened to the opportunities that abound in service businesses while working at Outback in the mid 1990's. One of our grill guys became the Assistant Kitchen manager, then a kitchen manager, and now he is the regional food tech in the Chicago suburban region. I became a bartender, head wait, and eventually a "key" employee which is like a junior front of house manager at Outback-- could have easily become a proprietor of one of the stores if that was the route I wanted to go. I say "easily" but what I mean by that is that the opportunity is not out of reach for anyone willing to work for it. That's an $80K to $180K opportunity, by the way-- and you didn't need, and most proprietors do not have, a college degree.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 5, 2011 10:59:15 GMT -5
Even rock stars were better educated back then. Alice Cooper was a history teacher. The guys from Boston were accountants. Well, I guess P. Puff Daddy Money Name Changer guy does have an MBA...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2011 12:27:47 GMT -5
Those "pages and pages" of engineering jobs that "lie open" are just ruses. Please send me any resume's for Electrical Engineers/Control System Engineers with 8-12 years experience. I work at a company with one of those ads and it is a real ad and we hire off them (I also know of several other companies that are hiring as we tried to sub-contract them). So far we have interviewed every decent resume we have received (total of 2) and hired 1 of them. We still might hire the 2nd. So no, I don't see the demand as a ruse, as baring the 08-09 time frame we have struggled to get personnel.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 5, 2011 13:12:18 GMT -5
I became a bartender, head wait, and eventually a "key" employee which is like a junior front of house manager at Outback-- could have easily become a proprietor of one of the stores if that was the route I wanted to go. I say "easily" but what I mean by that is that the opportunity is not out of reach for anyone willing to work for it. OMG, I agree with WCP.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2011 21:29:19 GMT -5
Yep, we have lots of IEEE members and ISA for networking. That is how I know of several other companies that are hiring (again real jobs as they have tried to hire me directly or under a sub-contract and at current the count is 18 open positions I know about). College recruiting doesn't work since I can't get the new graduates the type of experience needed to make them marketable fast enough. We hire some but still struggle to get enough (several people in our office teach a class at the University). I can only train so many people at one time and the problem is not employee turnover, the need is from business growth. Thanks for the ideas but already been down that path. People don't seem willing to move to our small (250K) mid-west town that ranks as one of the top 10 places to live in the US (yes we pay relocation expenses). Seems like nobody wants to be the "new" guy in this economy since it is not showing stability, thus everyone is sitting at their current position. The most frustrating thing is to watch all these places struggle to find people to hire and then watch the news that claims there is all this available labor. A ton of baby boomers took early buy out packages in the last downturn and have decided to stay retired now that the economy has flipped.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 6, 2011 9:29:19 GMT -5
Those "pages and pages" of engineering jobs that "lie open" are just ruses. Please send me any resume's for Electrical Engineers/Control System Engineers with 8-12 years experience. I work at a company with one of those ads and it is a real ad and we hire off them (I also know of several other companies that are hiring as we tried to sub-contract them). So far we have interviewed every decent resume we have received (total of 2) and hired 1 of them. We still might hire the 2nd. So no, I don't see the demand as a ruse, as baring the 08-09 time frame we have struggled to get personnel. Logicnow, what state are you in? DH and tons of our friends are civil engineers but he does know some electrical engineers too. If you want he can also pass a message to the college he got his masters from. I am positive that the grads are having a tough time landing good jobs. I am in South New Jersey. ETA And if by chance you ever need a civil engineer with a masters specializing in enviornmental engineering feel free to PM me anytime. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 19:45:47 GMT -5
Toughtimes: Thanks, I'll look into those schools. 973beachbum: Unfortunately, I can't do any more new grads, I just hired one with only 2 years experience and just can't handle the training curve with multiple at one time. Sorry, don't have a need for environmental/civil at the current time. Job location is in the Midwest, PM me if you want more information. How ironic that this article was listed today on Yahoo: finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/112693/help-wanted-factory-floor-wsj
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Post by stl76 on May 7, 2011 21:05:39 GMT -5
"Those "pages and pages" of engineering jobs that "lie open" are just ruses. The candidates have already been identified and they are coming right over from India as soon as the employers convince the government that there are no local candidates. I worked for one of the top engineer ing professional societies and I can tell you there are plenty of unemployed engineers in the United States because they want more than a penny an hour and they can't be deported if they open their mouths."
Employers have to pay the prevailing wage for those jobs for any foreigners they may decide to hire! And it is a pain in the butt to have to do all the paperwork so i am sure if QUALIFIED Americans apply for these engineering jobs,they would be one step ahead. But the fact is Americans dont want to go to school for engineering because they dont want to work hard.This is what i have seen during my engineering education.
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