busymom
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Post by busymom on Apr 30, 2011 10:32:40 GMT -5
Naggie, what part of the country is DH's company at? I know someone who's looking in that field who's out of work, and very good at what he does.
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Post by lulubean on Apr 30, 2011 10:42:14 GMT -5
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 30, 2011 12:17:03 GMT -5
Unemployment is highest among people with little or no higher education. Low-paying jobs in food service might not be at the top of our lists, but we need them as well to have a functioning labor market.
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Post by ty on Apr 30, 2011 13:11:22 GMT -5
Unemployment is highest among people with little or no higher education. Low-paying jobs in food service might not be at the top of our lists, but we need them as well to have a functioning labor market. True, and then when you look at the demographics of the US and the states themselves, a lot of people in smaller states back east and in rural areas don't have many jobs available for the people, so the people living in a lot of those areas are dependent on government assistance and welfare. The people that just had their whole towns and communities destroyed by tornadoes are going to become dependent on government assistance and welfare due to nature, not of their choice. Why bash people on low-incomes and the poor when big businesses are the biggest welfare people in America. Most of the big businesses in America receive government handouts much larger than what the poor people in America are getting. All these McDonald jobs are temporary. They are summer jobs, and after that a lot of them will be laid off once again. If people invested more money in rural areas to build manufacturing plants like they have in china, America can be creating more jobs for the people and creating more products for exporting as well. China has it all right when it comes to business. They practically own America now. Kudo's to all those that got a job, but it would be better to start creating jobs for the people that are in need of one. I think most poor people would rather be working and earning an income rather than sitting around collectin welfare checks and doing nothing.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Apr 30, 2011 13:39:04 GMT -5
True, and then when you look at the demographics of the US and the states themselves, a lot of people in smaller states back east and in rural areas don't have many jobs available for the people, so the people living in a lot of those areas are dependent on government assistance and welfare. The people that just had their whole towns and communities destroyed by tornadoes are going to become dependent on government assistance and welfare due to nature, not of their choice. Why are the tornado victims going to have to get on welfare? Houses were destroyed, some businesses, but business owners have insurance to rebuild and homeowners have insurance to rebuild. Insurance will also pay for their hotel stays while they are rebuilding. Will it be tough? sure. But I don't think it is going to leave the victims on welfare, especially long-term. The recovery and rebuilding effort alone will create new jobs. The building industry is going to see a boom in North and central Alabama. Electricians are needed like crazy to restore power to the hundreds of thousands going without. The southeast is part of tornado alley. They have had devastating tornadoes in the past, and they rebuild, and life goes on. I grew up in Huntsville, Al, and went to U of A in Tuscaloosa. Thankfully my family and friends are OK. Most have evacuated to hotels in TN for a week until the power and water are restored. But they are not going to be welfare dependent. Even people who lost their homes are going to make it financially. As far as jobs go, there may not be a job for every unemployed person, but for those who are unqualified, there is nothing standing in their way to becoming qualified. Almost everyone can go to at least community college and work their way up. It is a personal choice that they choose to stay under-qualified. The medical field has tons of jobs available, yet so many people say "I could never work around blood" or something equally silly. They could do it, they just choose not to. I could have gone into a different field that I wouldn't enjoy, like business management, but I chose not to because I hate managing people. But to say you "can't" do a particular job is just an excuse to stay poor and uneducated.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Apr 30, 2011 13:49:55 GMT -5
I'm surprised those jobs are still open in your area Naggie. I thought unemployment was supposed to be higher than average there. Maybe, once again, the "experts" are wrong.
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Post by ty on Apr 30, 2011 14:43:15 GMT -5
Some communities of 3k people have been destroyed. They have no jobs to go back to. Tuscaloosa AL isn't the only place that was hit.
Getting a home rebuilt takes time if you have homeowners insurance. Depending on the person's income, gas prices, food prices going up, people do let some things slide (homeowners ins) to try and stay afloat.
I was listening on the news to a man that was talking about everything he had from his small store, home, cars, are all gone. It's not as if he's going to collect a check overnight to rebuild within 30 days and all is fine and dandy.
Regardless if he rebuilds or not, those that will be forced to move to another town won't be giving him any of their business. Renters don't carry homeowners Insurance, and a lot of them will be leaving the towns that were hit by these tornadoes.
So yes, a lot of them will be collecting government assistance for the time being. Nothing wring with it, but rebuilding a town and communities of 3k here and another town of 5k that's been lost will take a long time to recover and get back on their feet, and that's if the people actually decide to rebuild in those ares hit.
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Post by lulubean on Apr 30, 2011 14:55:26 GMT -5
;D
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Apr 30, 2011 17:01:30 GMT -5
Some communities of 3k people have been destroyed. They have no jobs to go back to. Tuscaloosa AL isn't the only place that was hit. Getting a home rebuilt takes time if you have homeowners insurance. Depending on the person's income, gas prices, food prices going up, people do let some things slide (homeowners ins) to try and stay afloat. I was listening on the news to a man that was talking about everything he had from his small store, home, cars, are all gone. It's not as if he's going to collect a check overnight to rebuild within 30 days and all is fine and dandy. Regardless if he rebuilds or not, those that will be forced to move to another town won't be giving him any of their business. Renters don't carry homeowners Insurance, and a lot of them will be leaving the towns that were hit by these tornadoes. So yes, a lot of them will be collecting government assistance for the time being. Nothing wring with it, but rebuilding a town and communities of 3k here and another town of 5k that's been lost will take a long time to recover and get back on their feet, and that's if the people actually decide to rebuild in those ares hit. I guess your idea of welfare and mine are different. Will FEMA be involved? of course. Will the majority of the people that were affected by the tornadoes end up on food stamps and section 8? Nope. In the first few weeks, there will be lots of charity and volunteers. Then the rebuilding will start. It will create lots of construction and clean up jobs. Federal emergency funds will pay at first, then insurance companies will pay out. While large communities were destroyed, most people still have homes to go to or have relatives/friends/neighbors with homes to go to. The renters who've lost their place of living will just move, but not go on welfare because of it. The ones who owned likely have insurance, especially if they had an outstanding mortgage. The trailer owners? Well, i guess they will go on welfare, but they were likely on it before (or one small step away from it). I'm not sure where you're from, but in the South people take care of their friends and neighbors. Those who still have resources will bend over backward to help those who don't. We are a tight-knit bunch of people and don't let our neighbors suffer if we can help it. I doubt this tragedy will make for very many new welfare recipients.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2011 13:01:52 GMT -5
"Factory, warehouse and other lower skilled jobs are needed."
This type of thinking is why the USA is experiencing a constant pressure on our standard of living. The world has a surplus of labor willing to do these low pay, low skill jobs. As more and more 3rd world countries try to move toward our standard of living and lifestyle, the market will continue to be flooded with low skill workers.
The USA needs to stress education, especially Math and Science skills. I see ton's of manufacturing still happening and growing in the USA. However, it is not the type that hires unskilled labor. That has either been moved overseas or converted to Robotics. Most facilities I work with require BS, MS or PhD for what was traditionally considered a blue collar manufacturing job. These are advanced facilities manufacturing the next generation of pharmaceutical, high tech products, etc.
We need to get people to move from low skill to high skill workers. I blame TV for lots of this, in the 50/60s kids dreamed of growing up to be an Astronaut, Doctor, Lawyer, etc. Now kids want to be the next American Idol/Sports star. The later does not provide any useful skills to the workforce when the person fails at their dream. The prior created thousands of Engineers, Medical Technicians, Paralegals, etc. when the people failed at their dreams.
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Post by ty on May 1, 2011 13:38:59 GMT -5
"Factory, warehouse and other lower skilled jobs are needed." This type of thinking is why the USA is experiencing a constant pressure on our standard of living. The world has a surplus of labor willing to do these low pay, low skill jobs. As more and more 3rd world countries try to move toward our standard of living and lifestyle, the market will continue to be flooded with low skill workers. The USA needs to stress education, especially Math and Science skills. I see ton's of manufacturing still happening and growing in the USA. However, it is not the type that hires unskilled labor. That has either been moved overseas or converted to Robotics. Most facilities I work with require BS, MS or PhD for what was traditionally considered a blue collar manufacturing job. These are advanced facilities manufacturing the next generation of pharmaceutical, high tech products, etc. We need to get people to move from low skill to high skill workers. I blame TV for lots of this, in the 50/60s kids dreamed of growing up to be an Astronaut, Doctor, Lawyer, etc. Now kids want to be the next American Idol/Sports star. The later does not provide any useful skills to the workforce when the person fails at their dream. The prior created thousands of Engineers, Medical Technicians, Paralegals, etc. when the people failed at their dreams.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on May 1, 2011 21:23:38 GMT -5
Many people aren't smart enough to learn enough to be high skilled workers. The average IQ is 100 so half the people are under that, they will never be engineers, doctors and other high skilled people. Some didn't learn basic communication skills as children, perhaps from non English speaking homes so even if they are smart they might have trouble learning high skilled jobs.
We used to have plenty of jobs that could be done with a high school education and average intelligence. Those people are replaced with imported goods and immigrant labor and techology so there are fewer middle class jobs for average people. The average, waitress, CNA, administrative assistant, retail clerk or social worker wouldn't be able retrain to be an IT professional, lawyer, doctor, accountant or other high skilled job. Some could but many couldn't when they could have worked on an assembly line making a living wage that could support a family.
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on May 1, 2011 21:52:11 GMT -5
I think it's pretty obvious that there is a problem when over a million people apply for 62k available jobs at McDonald's. More like there are problems. My completely biased takes: 1. a dearth of manufacturing jobs in the US due in part to unions pushing them out. Look at the Boeing nonsense right now: if the unions are going to use the Thug In Chief to sic the Labor Board on a company that wants to locate away from union thugs, the NEXT move will be completely out of the country. 2. too many useless white collar jobs that do not produce anything of worth. Human resources, moving papers, having meetings, etc... contribute nothing to the bottom lines. In the last downturns, companies took hard looks at where they had grown fat and cut. 3. an anti-business/anti achievement environment: when you have the Thug In Chief using his bully pulpit to attack anyone he thinks the masses want to be attacked: bankers, business, doctors supposedly hacking off limbs, well people takes their skills, money, and jobs elsewhere that will actually welcome and respect risk taking and wealth building. People are flocking to Asia right now because of this. I'm secure right now but have not ruled out a possible move. 4 a possible change akin to the shifts from agarian to manufacturing to service and information tech. The uneducated and untrained will simply not have useful skills to trade for a paycheck 5. illegal immigration undercuting the US workers, especially in construction.
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on May 1, 2011 22:01:28 GMT -5
Sorry, guys, things are very tight. Right now I am temping for several dollars an hour less than I made 20 years ago. Meanwhile, on the bus home yesterday, a neighbor told me she may have her hours cut in half and she is the sole support of a family. 1. Hang in there TT! We go back and forth but I still love ya almost as much as I love MuscleUp! 2. Remember that while things may be tough for you and someone else, does not mean it is the same all over. Just as Bill Gates looking from his mansion thinks, "wow things are rocking for me" does not mean that the entire nation is doing well.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 2, 2011 0:01:01 GMT -5
"the NEXT move will be completely out of the country."
I don't disagree that unions played a part in the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, but get real. Boeing will never completely move off shores. it's pretty hard to build a top secret airplane with forign workers.
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Post by ty on May 2, 2011 0:06:02 GMT -5
"the NEXT move will be completely out of the country." I don't disagree that unions played a part in the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, but get real. Boeing will never completely move off shores. it's pretty hard to build a top secret airplane with foreign workers. Didn't America sell the Chinese a bunch of military planes not to long ago.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 2, 2011 0:56:01 GMT -5
"Didn't America sell the Chinese a bunch of military planes not to long ago."
The U.S sells old surplused military hardware to other countries all the time. It's nothing new. The key is it's old and surplused, not the cutting edge stuff, we keep that to ourselves.
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Post by pig on May 2, 2011 8:21:24 GMT -5
"The USA needs to stress education, especially Math and Science skills. I see ton's of manufacturing still happening and growing in the USA. However, it is not the type that hires unskilled labor. That has either been moved overseas or converted to Robotics. Most facilities I work with require BS, MS or PhD for what was traditionally considered a blue collar manufacturing job. These are advanced facilities manufacturing the next generation of pharmaceutical, high tech products, etc. We need to get people to move from low skill to high skill workers. I blame TV for lots of this, in the 50/60s kids dreamed of growing up to be an Astronaut, Doctor, Lawyer, etc. Now kids want to be the next American Idol/Sports star. The later does not provide any useful skills to the workforce when the person fails at their dream. The prior created thousands of Engineers, Medical Technicians, Paralegals, etc. when the people failed at their dreams. " Out of touch much? The unemployment rate for PhDs in most fields is the same as the general populace (not counting recession). There are not enough jobs that require advanced degrees to support more of them. Secondly, why would anyone want to persue an advanced degree when they can teach grade school or high school and get more money and a better safer retirement? Ameiko, well said my man, best response I've read in this thread.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on May 2, 2011 10:09:44 GMT -5
"{The USA needs to stress education, especially Math and Science skills.}"
And yet, according to the BLS 2008-2018 projections, those areas with the largest growth do not require these skill sets. Below are the top 10, most of which I would consider low skill, low pay. Although McD's fits in perfectly at number 4.
The US is changing, and there are going to be a lot of people left behind; sadly, that means an increasing number eligible for welfare programs.
Registered nurses Home health aides Customer service representatives Combined food preparation and serving workers, including fast food Personal and home care aides Retail salespersons Office clerks, general Accountants and auditors Nursing aides, orderlies, and attendants Postsecondary teachers
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Post by robbase on May 2, 2011 19:18:36 GMT -5
Many people aren't smart enough to learn enough to be high skilled workers. The average IQ is 100 so half the people are under that, they will never be engineers, doctors and other high skilled people. Some didn't learn basic communication skills as children, perhaps from non English speaking homes so even if they are smart they might have trouble learning high skilled jobs.
IMO this is bull, anyone can learn by putting forth work & effort. They might not become the next Einstein, but they can learn enough to do what they need to do to get the baseline.
for example I am pretty smart but I suck with handyman / mechanic skills (my wife paints, hangs shelves in the house, re-did the shower grouting, etc.)...but believe you me if I had no job and "smart" skills were of no use and there was big demand for handyman type skills, i would practice, practice practice and find a way to study to get good enough to get by
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Post by robbase on May 2, 2011 20:05:07 GMT -5
And if you were just, "good enough to get by" you would still be sitting unhired by the curb as those who practice just as hard and are blessed with talent as well breeze into the job you want.
right... so the best solution is to do nothing and expect the situation to magically fix itself or depend on government / others help for the rest fo your life....if you get good enough to get by in a field that is in demand, you will get / or have a better chance to ger one of those "good enough to get by jobs"....and with further practice, professional mentoring, etc. you can get even better
but you are correct, better to blame others, wait for magic help that will never materialize and just give up on it all
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Post by pig on May 3, 2011 8:10:21 GMT -5
for example I am pretty smart but I suck with handyman / mechanic skills (my wife paints, hangs shelves in the house, re-did the shower grouting, etc.)...but believe you me if I had no job and "smart" skills were of no use and there was big demand for handyman type skills, i would practice, practice practice and find a way to study to get good enough to get by
Rob I take it you've never seen a real good professional painter. They don't need tape and don't make mistakes. I doubt you or I at our age would be able to aquire that skill. Most of those that I knew were from generations of painters.
right... so the best solution is to do nothing and expect the situation to magically fix itself or depend on government / others help for the rest fo your life...
You're doing the same thing by thinking you could just hop into any job and do it as well as someone specializing in it. That false thinking is worse than doing nothing.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 3, 2011 8:20:26 GMT -5
Years ago my girlfriend made a bad choice after HS to marry a boy that left her with 3 girls to support. She was lucky that her Mom took her in and she worked nights at one of the first 24 hour McDonald's-night shift. She ended up promoted to night manager within a year. Nasty hours but decent pay and bennies and no child care costs because her mom watched the girls when they weren't in elem school. FF 5 years later and she was offered a chance to buy a franchise that McDonald's sold to managers. She later owned 5 and made a good life for her and her girls and was able to give her mom a nice trip as a thank you and have the mom come live with her eventually in her own nice home. McDonald's can be a stepping stone for those willing to work hard and suck it up.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 3, 2011 8:35:00 GMT -5
"Out of touch much? The unemployment rate for PhDs in most fields is the same as the general populace (not counting recession). There are not enough jobs that require advanced degrees to support more of them. Secondly, why would anyone want to persue an advanced degree when they can teach grade school or high school and get more money and a better safer retirement? " And Doc that doesn't include the numbers of PHD's and Masters people that are teaching at Colleges and Universities as Adjuncts for really low money. Adjuncts are becoming the mainstay of colleges and Univ by me. Most end up making peanuts but do it in the hopes of getting a full time job that doesn't pay that much more, but would give them benefits. Those jobs are becoming fewer and fewer too.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 3, 2011 8:44:39 GMT -5
Same here, I was talking with my boss about graduate school and he warned me that here where I work I'd be facing a serious paycut if I got my PhD because they expect you to do research (teaching/research hospital). The university would only pay me 32% of my salary as opposed to 100% as a lab technician. The rest of it would have to be brought in by me with grants. Then add on I have to spend 4-6 years working for peanuts as a PhD student, then working for peanuts again as a postdoc, that's a very long time. I could be well into my late 40's before I earn a significant salary, if even then. Meanwhile as a technician I could make what a postdoc makes in just a few years thru lab hopping. Why would I go down to $20k a year or less for 4-6 years just to make what I could make in a few years staying where I am at?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 3, 2011 8:57:04 GMT -5
Dram most of the PHD's and Masters level people don't have degrees in areas that easily translate to research. Most teach math, engineering or liberal arts. So no or not many research oppurtunities there. But most adjunct teaching gigs are for done as an amount an hour that only includes actual teaching credit hours. So $20-29 an hour isn't bad till the person realizes it is only for half the time they need to be working. DH is an adjunct and the college he works at they realized they were paying below some minimum set up by the state or some union. So they included a taxable "benefit" to the adjuncts. They get a free lunch for every class they teach. So he doesn't get there in time to have a tic tac let alone visit the cafe but he gets it put on his paycheck like he got the money to buy lunch with.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 3, 2011 9:10:09 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of research opportunities either, there is only so much money to go around and with cuts in federal funding there is going to be even more rabid competition. I paid attention during lab meetings when my boss talked about grants (he was on the board a lot, good PR for yourself) and it's BAD out there right now, especially for new researchers. Things could change in 4-6 years but I have to ask myself if I want to risk the paycut and being out of the job market that long. Personally I don't. There are already tons of people ahead of me who already have their PhDs clawing for what little is out there, the market is too saturated. I am going to go for my master's because there are a lot of lab technician jobs out there that now want a master's (thank you degree inflation) so if I want to stay competitive I need at least the master's.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 3, 2011 9:23:35 GMT -5
Drama I don't know about at your univ but most colleges here will also let you teach with a Masters degree. It isn't much but at least it is something and could be used as a stepping stone. Why knows it might be nice to get out of the lab if your Univ would let you. And hey don't forget the free turkey sandwich.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 3, 2011 9:39:52 GMT -5
I actually really enjoy research, I just hate the current wage freeze. Eventually I'd like to move into private research and out of academia but with the economy as it is it just makes sense for me to stay put. Even if I lose this job it's A LOT easier to get hired here when you are an internal candidate than from the outside. So it just makes sense right now to stay put.
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Post by robbase on May 3, 2011 10:05:58 GMT -5
Tough times and Dr. Pig - good luck with your plans (listed below) to overcome the current adversity (appears to be the advice of "just give up")
from TT The best solution is: 1. Stick to what you do well.
2. Hold the feet of our elected officials to the fire so they stop selling America and American jobs piece by piece to the foreigners.
--------------------------------------------- from Doc Pig for example I am pretty smart but I suck with handyman / mechanic skills (my wife paints, hangs shelves in the house, re-did the shower grouting, etc.)...but believe you me if I had no job and "smart" skills were of no use and there was big demand for handyman type skills, i would practice, practice practice and find a way to study to get good enough to get by
Rob I take it you've never seen a real good professional painter. They don't need tape and don't make mistakes. I doubt you or I at our age would be able to aquire that skill. Most of those that I knew were from generations of painters.
right... so the best solution is to do nothing and expect the situation to magically fix itself or depend on government / others help for the rest fo your life...
You're doing the same thing by thinking you could just hop into any job and do it as well as someone specializing in it. That false thinking is worse than doing nothing.
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