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Post by ed1066 on Apr 13, 2011 21:49:52 GMT -5
Who said I'm trying to control it?
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Post by ty on Apr 13, 2011 22:09:11 GMT -5
...in molestation case. from the Philly Atheist Examiner, although other sources popped up in a google search: It is official, the Pope and two top Vatican officials have been served with court papers associated with the Milwaukee-area school for the deaf molestation case in which 200 deaf children were alleged to have been molested by Reverend Lawrence C. Murphy between 1950 and 1974. click 'Philly Atheist Examiner' for the link. ************************************************************************** as a recovering Catholic, I say good. it's about damn time, those guys in the ivory tower of the Vatican knew about these sick b*stards a long time before it hit the public's radar. I've always believed that these people all should be prosecuted for promoting and covering up the crimes they were aware of happening. Never mind all the kids that were raped and molested by these religious charlatans, they covered up these crimes so they can continue conning the people out of their money. Stop giving these criminal charlatans your money, then they will go away.
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Post by ed1066 on Apr 13, 2011 22:19:17 GMT -5
Are you talking about Catholics or Democrats? Because I don't think either one is going away any time soon...
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steff
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Post by steff on Apr 13, 2011 22:24:31 GMT -5
What bothers me most about what the Catholic church did was the moving of the priests from one group of victims right into another. All while they KNEW that the priest was sexually abusing kids. They gave these priests new victims almost as a reward and that is sickening.
The ones in charge that moved them from parish to parish, city to city all around the world need to be held responsible along with the abusive priests.
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Post by ty on Apr 13, 2011 22:25:33 GMT -5
Are you talking about Catholics or Democrats? Because I don't think either one is going away any time soon... hardy-har-har, catholics, and tossing in the politicians is a big bonus too.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 13, 2011 22:26:19 GMT -5
As head of state I doubt he will choose to attend. Yeah, that's kind of my thinking. Don't get me wrong, I'm no defender of child rapists. I have long wondered why all this is tied up in civil trials-- where are the arrests? The prison sentences?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 13, 2011 22:34:42 GMT -5
As head of state I doubt he will choose to attend. Yeah, that's kind of my thinking. Don't get me wrong, I'm no defender of child rapists. I have long wondered why all this is tied up in civil trials-- where are the arrests? The prison sentences? Statute of Limitations? In the OP, the sexual abuse took place between 1950 and 1974.
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Post by ty on Apr 13, 2011 23:03:20 GMT -5
Yeah, that's kind of my thinking. Don't get me wrong, I'm no defender of child rapists. I have long wondered why all this is tied up in civil trials-- where are the arrests? The prison sentences? Statute of Limitations? In the OP, the sexual abuse took place between 1950 and 1974. Tenn, the fact that they continued to cover up these crimes today, it seems like they all could be and should be prosecuted for covering up these crimes that they are aware of. I think it's wrong that these purvs will walk free without losing their title and position within the Catholic Church. I don't even understand why people even continue going to these institutions that are more sinful than the gay people that attack and bash. Just sick!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 23:07:15 GMT -5
Is there a statue of limitations on child sexual abuse? I wonder what it is? I like the 5 Browns... liked their music and the fact they were homeschooled.. but have been following recently and their father was just found criminally guilty of abusing the girls... I would think there has to be some amount of time limit ... many kids don't tell until they are adults...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 13, 2011 23:14:11 GMT -5
Well, the sad fact is that sex crimes are difficult enough to prove without the passage of a lot of time. If a person accuses another person of a sex crime that occurred many years ago- it comes down to their word against the perpetrator. I guess I probably answered my own question in thinking about this. It's not likely a crime that has a witness. There may be DNA evidence- as disgusting as that is to think about, but likely nothing conclusive when a crime occurred-- at the latest-- in 1974.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 23:17:48 GMT -5
You know what... he did take a deal... maybe he just admitted guilt? I guess it would be hard to prove... but then if all 3 girls came forward? ... I said i followed it... i read about it, i guess i really didn't go into details...
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 4:22:31 GMT -5
The Vatican argues it's not liable for clerical sex-abuse cases under canon law and a church structure that holds bishops — and not Rome — responsible for disciplining pedophile priests. Anderson also has a pending lawsuit against the Vatican in Oregon for a man who claims he was abused at his Catholic school in the 1960s. Anderson has asked a federal judge to require pope and the other Vatican officials to testify. Copyright © 2011 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved. www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5icsvx0mcrbR3n3_u9KDl33BZ_iBw?docId=6546589
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 4:46:33 GMT -5
In a fiery letter titled "Straight Talk on the Catholic Church," Catholic League President Bill Donohue charges that the spread of homosexuality, not pedophilia, is the problem within the Church. He insists that the scores of victims to come forward in recent years were not children but young men when they were abused, nor were they always unwilling participants. "The refrain that child rape is a reality in the Church is twice wrong: let's get it straight--they weren't children and they weren't raped," Donahue writes. "The Boston Globe correctly said of the John Jay report that 'more than three-quarters of the victims were post pubescent, meaning the abuse did not meet the clinical definition of pedophilia.' In other words, the issue is homosexuality, not pedophilia." Donohue also flatly insists that many accusers are fraudsters looking to cash in on the Church's guilt-inspired generosity. He writes: Click here to read more blackchristiannews.com/news/2011/04/catholic-league-president-bill-donohue-defends-church-scandals-by-suggesting-that-homosexuality-not-.html
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Post by magichat on Apr 14, 2011 7:35:04 GMT -5
What I don't get is why Ed is choosing to defend child molesters. I had never realized that was a conservative value.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 14, 2011 7:39:46 GMT -5
As head of state I doubt he will choose to attend. Yeah, that's kind of my thinking. Don't get me wrong, I'm no defender of child rapists. I have long wondered why all this is tied up in civil trials-- where are the arrests? The prison sentences? there were actually some arrests when the statute of limitations hadn't expired. one of those priests was actually killed in prison here in MA by another inmate.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Apr 14, 2011 7:54:57 GMT -5
Now, Chives, learn to read carefully. You wrote "the Pope and two top Vatican officials have been served with court papers". Now, that's just not true. Nameless, faceless Vatican representatives were served with court papers, not the Pope himself nor two top Vatican officials. You're acting like it was part of this weeks "All Worked Up", and Bryan Elderberry caught the Pope coming out of Baskin Robbins and gave him a handful of papers before running to his SUV. I guarantee you that the Pope will NOT testify at this trial. Sorry you hate your Church so much. But try not to lie, OK? Lie? Really? An attorney can also be served on your behalf, which I can almost guaranteed is what happened in this instance. This is an interesting case, because the Roman Catholic Church has long held a legal disconnect from the actions of it's church in other countries. It is well know that the Roman church is in fact part of a hierarchy, and does, at times, direct the lower churches. If the Roman Church can be shown to have knowingly directed the lower churches to cover up, hide, or to "deal with" priests who are committing child molestation or abuse without involving legal officials then they are liable. This would be no different than any other countries ruler directing it's people to cover up crimes committed in the US by people associated/directed by the countries ruler. Remember the Vatican is a country and the Pope is the head of state. Left uncheked this creates a precedence for other "religiously ruled countries" to commit crimes in the US with no legal repercussions to the country directing the people and crimes. I would think anti-Islamist would be all for this (unless of course you just hate Islam).
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Apr 14, 2011 8:00:22 GMT -5
If this goes through, is Obama is now liable to be served for any crime committed by a federal government employee?
True, even a crime committed 40 to 60 years ago.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 8:00:55 GMT -5
STRAIGHT TALK ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH When the Boston Globe exposed massive wrongdoing in the Boston Archdiocese in 2002, Catholics were understandably angry. And when more horror stories surfaced elsewhere, we were furious. But now our anger is turning on those who are distorting the truth about priestly sexual abuse. That some are exploiting this issue for ideological and financial profit seems plain. Every time a new wave of accusations surfaces in one diocese, not coincidentally we see a spike in accusations in other dioceses. What is not often reported is that the vast majority of new accusations extend back decades. For example, for the first quarter of this year, 80 percent of the cases of alleged abuse involve incidences that occurred before 2000. In March, an 80 year-old man came forward in St. Louis claiming he was abused 70 years ago by a priest who has been dead for a half century. This is not an anomaly: the same phenomenon has happened in other dioceses. Unfortunately, too often bishops have been quick to settle, thus inspiring more claims. When $225,000 is dished out to a Michigan man who claims he was abused in the 1950s by a priest who died in 1983—and the diocese admits the accusation is unsubstantiated—it encourages fraud. A common belief, fostered by the media, is that there is a widespread sexual abuse problem in the Catholic Church today. The evidence is to the contrary: In 2004, the John Jay College of Criminal Justice issued its landmark study and found that most of the abuse occurred during the heyday of the sexual revolution, from the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s. What we are hearing about today are almost all old cases. To wit: from 2005 to 2009, the average number of new credible accusations made against over 40,000 priests was 8.6. This is a tribute to the reform efforts that have taken place: 5 million children and 2 million adults have gone through a safe environment program. Indeed, there is no religious, or secular, institution that can match this record, either in terms of the low rate of abuse or the extensiveness of a training program. To read more click on the link: www.catholicleague.org/nytstraighttalk.php
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Apr 14, 2011 8:08:37 GMT -5
Young men under the age of legal consent?
That is like saying that the teachers who have sex with their high school students are not abusing the students because the students are willing participants.
As far a pedophilia, Donahue states that 1/4 of the abused are pre-pubescent. That is a lot! If 3/4 are post-pubescent lets look at the actual ages. Are they 13? 14? 15? Are these ages that it's ok? Are these willing participants when the person abusing them is 30, 40, 50, 60?
It's amazing the spin they try and put on this.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Apr 14, 2011 8:11:56 GMT -5
STRAIGHT TALK ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH When the Boston Globe exposed massive wrongdoing in the Boston Archdiocese in 2002, Catholics were understandably angry. And when more horror stories surfaced elsewhere, we were furious. But now our anger is turning on those who are distorting the truth about priestly sexual abuse. That some are exploiting this issue for ideological and financial profit seems plain. Every time a new wave of accusations surfaces in one diocese, not coincidentally we see a spike in accusations in other dioceses. What is not often reported is that the vast majority of new accusations extend back decades. For example, for the first quarter of this year, 80 percent of the cases of alleged abuse involve incidences that occurred before 2000. In March, an 80 year-old man came forward in St. Louis claiming he was abused 70 years ago by a priest who has been dead for a half century. This is not an anomaly: the same phenomenon has happened in other dioceses. Unfortunately, too often bishops have been quick to settle, thus inspiring more claims. When $225,000 is dished out to a Michigan man who claims he was abused in the 1950s by a priest who died in 1983—and the diocese admits the accusation is unsubstantiated—it encourages fraud. A common belief, fostered by the media, is that there is a widespread sexual abuse problem in the Catholic Church today. The evidence is to the contrary: In 2004, the John Jay College of Criminal Justice issued its landmark study and found that most of the abuse occurred during the heyday of the sexual revolution, from the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s. What we are hearing about today are almost all old cases. To wit: from 2005 to 2009, the average number of new credible accusations made against over 40,000 priests was 8.6. This is a tribute to the reform efforts that have taken place: 5 million children and 2 million adults have gone through a safe environment program. Indeed, there is no religious, or secular, institution that can match this record, either in terms of the low rate of abuse or the extensiveness of a training program. To read more click on the link: www.catholicleague.org/nytstraighttalk.phpHere is a list of Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse and the status of the cases. It is shocking, not only the number of priests accused but also the convictions and settlements www.bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 8:12:20 GMT -5
Because the Catholic Church is often criticized for not following a “zero tolerance” policy, the Catholic League did some investigation of its own. Here’s what we found. Almost every media outlet, teachers’ union and religious organization we examined does not have a “zero tolerance” policy in place for sexual misconduct (or any other offense). The few that do make no mention of mandatory reporting. These organizations are not wrong for not having the same kind of policy that the Catholic Church has. The New York Times seems to understand this matter when applied to schools. In an editorial titled, “The Trouble With ‘Zero Tolerance,’” it noted that schools which have adopted these policies have created conditions where children are being “arrested for profanity, talking back, shoving matches and other behavior that would once have been resolved with detention or meetings with the students’ parents.” The NYCLU agreed saying, “De facto zero tolerance causes wrongful arrests, searches and suspensions of students in too many of the city’s neediest schools.” Yet as recently as April 2, the Times issued another editorial insisting the bishops follow this flawed policy. No amount of reform will ever satisfy some. Attorneys like Jeffrey Anderson, and his well-greased friends at SNAP, a professional victims’ group, are dogmatic in their convictions; their hatred of the Catholic Church is palpable. Similarly, when others tell the bishops we’re going to “sue the s*** out of you,” and are informed that the goal is to put an “out of business” sign in front of every parish, school and charitable center, it is evident that the Church needs to fight back with greater vigor. What accounts for the relentless attacks on the Church? Let’s face it: if its teachings were pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage and pro-women clergy, the dogs would have been called off years ago.The British atheist Richard Dawkins is no fan of Catholicism. But he is honest enough to say that the Catholic Church “has been unfairly demonized over the issue, especially in Ireland and America.” Now if Dawkins gets it, why can’t others? Bill Donohue President Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights www.catholicleague.org/nytstraighttalk.php
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 14, 2011 8:15:01 GMT -5
No amount of reform will ever satisfy some. how about no covering up criminal activity? I think that's something we can all agree on, and clearly wasn't the case with all these instances.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Apr 14, 2011 8:17:43 GMT -5
greedy dem dupes behind all cover ups.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Apr 14, 2011 8:24:33 GMT -5
No amount of reform will ever satisfy some. how about no covering up criminal activity? I think that's something we can all agree on, and clearly wasn't the case with all these instances. Here is a link (from the same site previously posted) where you can track the assignment records of priests as they correlate to abuses that are accused. app.bishop-accountability.org/member/psearch.jsp?op=assignmentsBecause the Catholic Church is often criticized for not following a “zero tolerance” policy The catholic church preaches a zero tolerance policy on many, many things. To decide that the zero tolerance policy does not apply to molestation or abuse is hypocritical. Hiding illegal activities from police and prosecutors only makes the issues worse. How can people demand that Islamic clerics give information about terrorist activities, but in the same breath say that it's ok for the Catholic Church to hide the terrorism that the the priests are causing to children? The admission of what is going on and the commitment not to hide would help.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 8:25:46 GMT -5
I believe Mr Donuhue is right on with this comment and it bears repeating in case anyone missed it: What accounts for the relentless attacks on the Church? Let’s face it: if its teachings were pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage and pro-women clergy, the dogs would have been called off years ago.So maybe you ought to call off the dogs.. ?
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Apr 14, 2011 8:36:28 GMT -5
I believe Mr Donuhue is right on with this comment and it bears repeating in case anyone missed it: What accounts for the relentless attacks on the Church? Let’s face it: if its teachings were pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage and pro-women clergy, the dogs would have been called off years ago.So maybe you ought to call off the dogs.. ? I think he got it right here 3/4 of the victims post pubescent (still molested) 1/4 of the victims pre pubescent, all victims. It seems like the dogs are attacking the children. Maybe the church should separate it's self from people who are attacking children, or at least stop hiding them.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 14, 2011 8:37:19 GMT -5
Mr Donohue is out of line, because the "relentless attacks" wouldn't have been nearly so bad if anyone in the hierarchy of the Church had stopped the shuffling of the criminal priests around to avoid the abuse being discovered. IMHO, the Church brought this on themselves by refusing to keep their own house clean. thanks, ChiTown - I am going to check out that link. my comment referred to as things were going on, not now that things have been made public.
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 8:43:21 GMT -5
ANOTHER BOGUS VATICAN LAWSUIT April 13, 2011 Catholic League president Bill Donohue addresses the lawsuit brought by attorney Jeffrey Anderson against the Vatican: Jeffrey Anderson has tried several times to sue the Vatican over alleged abuse cases that date back decades. He has never won. Nor will he win this time. That's because his charges are bogus. Anderson accuses Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now the pope, of knowing about the conduct of a Wisconsin priest, Rev. Lawrence Murphy, who allegedly abused Anderson's client in 1960. The lawsuit, filed last year, was procedurally defective and therefore went nowhere. Now the proper channels have been pursued, but the end result will be the same. The fact is that the Vatican was never notified of Murphy's behavior, which involved many boys extending back to the 1950s, until 1996. The Vatican could have ignored the case, maintaining that the statute of limitations had expired, but instead ordered a trial. The judge in the trial, Father Thomas Brundage, has already testified that Ratzinger's name never came up during the proceedings. The trial was called off once it became clear that Murphy was near death; he died soon after. Anderson knows he will lose again, but losing is no deterrent to his ambitions. His goal is to keep this issue alive. Obviously, his dream is to take down the pope. The man who is being treated as a hero in this case is, in fact, no hero at all. It is being widely reported that the Vatican was notified about Murphy in 1996 by the former Archbishop of Milwaukee, Rembert Weakland. What is not being reported is that Weakland, who left the archdiocese in a homosexual and financial scandal, knew about Murphy's behavior long before the mid-1990s. There is evidence, in the form of a letter written by the Coadjutor Bishop of Superior, Wisconsin, Raphael M. Fliss, to the Vicar for Personnel, Rev. Joseph A. Janicki, saying he had discussed Murphy's record of abuse with Weakland. The letter was dated July 9, 1980. But Anderson will hear none of it—he's out to get the pope. More News Releases » www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=2127
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Post by privateinvestor on Apr 14, 2011 8:45:27 GMT -5
I agree 110% with this comment by Mr Donohue: Anderson knows he will lose again, but losing is no deterrent to his ambitions. His goal is to keep this issue alive. Obviously, his dream is to take down the pope.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Apr 14, 2011 9:09:44 GMT -5
Going deep pockets on this one! It will be a long expensive battle. Insurance is almost impossible to get for the church and if they do its expensive as.... hell .... wonder why? Lets Hope that justice will be served .. "In the past, the Pope and Vatican officials were immune from such lawsuits under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976. However, in June of last year the Supreme Court declined to hear a Vatican appeal to a Ninth Circuit ruling that the Vatican can be held accountable for priest’s actions under the “tort exceptions” clause of the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976 under certain conditions" Interesting to see how it turns out.
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