Republican Tremendous Health Care Plan

[weltschmerz]

No cheaper drugs for you! Because... investments and profits.
House Democrats can now say they've taken action to lower drug costs.



The chamber on Thursday passed a drug price bill backed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi by a 230 to 192 vote.

That's as far as the legislation is likely to go, since both Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and the Trump administration have said they do not support the effort. But it allows House Democrats to say on the campaign trail next year that they fulfilled one of their main promises from the 2018 election.


www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/politics/house-passes-federal-government-drug-price-negotiation-bill/index.html

[thyme4change]

The GOP are missing a big opportunity here. A dual system will funnel big money into for-profit providers in several categories of healthcare. It will be a huge money maker, especially if they can get the middle class to pay for it, which they will.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 13, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The GOP are missing a big opportunity here. A dual system will funnel big money into for-profit providers in several categories of healthcare. It will be a huge money maker, especially if they can get the middle class to pay for it, which they will.

Trump is missing a big opportunity.

but he is not really an opportunist, imo. he simply does what he feels.

I see him more as a unthinking undisciplined hamberder eating hedonist than any sort of "feeler of the American pulse".

[thyme4change]

Dec 15, 2019 0:46:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 13, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The GOP are missing a big opportunity here. A dual system will funnel big money into for-profit providers in several categories of healthcare. It will be a huge money maker, especially if they can get the middle class to pay for it, which they will.

Trump is missing a big opportunity.

but he is not really an opportunist, imo. he simply does what he feels.

I see him more as a unthinking undisciplined hamberder eating hedonist than any sort of "feeler of the American pulse".

I have no faith in Trump. But if a strong group of Republicans (elected and people who donate) came to him with even a remotely plausible policy that would bring in large profits, he could be talked into supporting it. We have seen him time and time again latch onto the last opinion he heard. There are definitely ways to 'manage' him. He isn't strong enough to have his own principles.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 15, 2019 10:48:30 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Dec 15, 2019 0:46:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Trump is missing a big opportunity.

but he is not really an opportunist, imo. he simply does what he feels.

I see him more as a unthinking undisciplined hamberder eating hedonist than any sort of "feeler of the American pulse".

I have no faith in Trump. But if a strong group of Republicans (elected and people who donate) came to him with even a remotely plausible policy that would bring in large profits, he could be talked into supporting it. We have seen him time and time again latch onto the last opinion he heard. There are definitely ways to 'manage' him. He isn't strong enough to have his own principles.

they would have to boil it down to a single slide, and repeat it over and over.....

[tallguy]

Three words max.  Four if they can make it fit on a hat.

[Gardening Grandma]

Dec 15, 2019 16:48:41 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Three words max.  Four if they can make it fit on a hat.

And if the words aren't too big.

[phil5185]

""No cheaper drugs for you! Because... investments and profits.

House Democrats can now say they've taken action to lower drug costs.""

It costs from $2B to $5B (and 8 years) to invent, test, iterate, obtain FDA approval, and market a new drug.  If you remove all the private sector incentives to develop new drugs, that leaves only the gov't to do the R&.   Are you sure that you want to wait? 

Personally, I don't want cheaper drugs, I want better faster drugs. And I want pharmaceutical companies to profit from that work. Every time the protest groups rant about regulating drug development costs the pharma companies probably have to rethink (cut) their investment plans.

[Gardening Grandma]

Dec 16, 2019 12:29:23 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

""No cheaper drugs for you! Because... investments and profits.

House Democrats can now say they've taken action to lower drug costs.""

It costs from $2B to $5B (and 8 years) to invent, test, iterate, obtain FDA approval, and market a new drug.  If you remove all the private sector incentives to develop new drugs, that leaves only the gov't to do the R&.   Are you sure that you want to wait? 

Personally, I don't want cheaper drugs, I want better faster drugs. And I want pharmaceutical companies to profit from that work. Every time the protest groups rant about regulating drug development costs the pharma companies probably have to rethink (cut) their investment plans.

You are conveniently ignoring the fact that the taxpayers foot the lion’s share of the bill for research due to gov’t grants. They don’t reap any of the profits, however.

abcnews.go.com/WNT/YourMoney/story?id=129651

www.thebalance.com/who-funds-biomedical-research-2663193

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 13, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The GOP are missing a big opportunity here. A dual system will funnel big money into for-profit providers in several categories of healthcare. It will be a huge money maker, especially if they can get the middle class to pay for it, which they will.

I'm a republican and I do not want big buckets o'money going anywhere.  I want to focus on cost reduction and that includes being able to have competitive pricing.  I want to be able to buy from the cheapest provider and in the case of prescriptions, that is Canada.  I want to have the cost of an MRI quoted to me when I make an appointment so I know the best deal.  

[weltschmerz]

Dec 16, 2019 12:49:45 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 13, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The GOP are missing a big opportunity here. A dual system will funnel big money into for-profit providers in several categories of healthcare. It will be a huge money maker, especially if they can get the middle class to pay for it, which they will.

I'm a republican and I do not want big buckets o'money going anywhere.  I want to focus on cost reduction and that includes being able to have competitive pricing.  I want to be able to buy from the cheapest provider and in the case of prescriptions, that is Canada.  I want to have the cost of an MRI quoted to me when I make an appointment so I know the best deal.  

That's Trump's great health care plan....buy drugs from Canada.

Well, Canada is considering ways to put a stop to that.  When the parasite is 10 times bigger than the host, it doesn't end well. We're already experiencing drug shortages.
Canada negotiates drug prices for Canadians, not hordes of Americans swarming across the border because your own government refuses to do anything about it.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 16, 2019 13:02:16 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 16, 2019 12:49:45 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I'm a republican and I do not want big buckets o'money going anywhere.  I want to focus on cost reduction and that includes being able to have competitive pricing.  I want to be able to buy from the cheapest provider and in the case of prescriptions, that is Canada.  I want to have the cost of an MRI quoted to me when I make an appointment so I know the best deal.  

That's Trump's great health care plan....buy drugs from Canada.

Well, Canada is considering ways to put a stop to that.  When the parasite is 10 times bigger than the host, it doesn't end well. We're already experiencing drug shortages.
Canada negotiates drug prices for Canadians, not hordes of Americans swarming across the border because your own government refuses to do anything about it.

It is currently illegal to buy prescriptions in Canada, with very limited exceptions.  

[weltschmerz]

Dec 16, 2019 13:11:53 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 16, 2019 13:02:16 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That's Trump's great health care plan....buy drugs from Canada.

Well, Canada is considering ways to put a stop to that.  When the parasite is 10 times bigger than the host, it doesn't end well. We're already experiencing drug shortages.
Canada negotiates drug prices for Canadians, not hordes of Americans swarming across the border because your own government refuses to do anything about it.

It is currently illegal to buy prescriptions in Canada, with very limited exceptions.  

So, how do you plan to buy drugs from Canada?

Many of our drugs are OTC, that you need a prescription for in the US, like codeine and insulin.

[justme]

Dec 16, 2019 12:49:45 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 13, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The GOP are missing a big opportunity here. A dual system will funnel big money into for-profit providers in several categories of healthcare. It will be a huge money maker, especially if they can get the middle class to pay for it, which they will.

I'm a republican and I do not want big buckets o'money going anywhere.  I want to focus on cost reduction and that includes being able to have competitive pricing.  I want to be able to buy from the cheapest provider and in the case of prescriptions, that is Canada.  I want to have the cost of an MRI quoted to me when I make an appointment so I know the best deal.  

And have you sat and figured out WHY they're cheaper in Canada? Hint: It's not because of the free market.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2019 13:47:43 GMT -5 justme said:

Dec 16, 2019 12:49:45 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I'm a republican and I do not want big buckets o'money going anywhere.  I want to focus on cost reduction and that includes being able to have competitive pricing.  I want to be able to buy from the cheapest provider and in the case of prescriptions, that is Canada.  I want to have the cost of an MRI quoted to me when I make an appointment so I know the best deal.  

And have you sat and figured out WHY they're cheaper in Canada? Hint: It's not because of the free market.

No, it's called rationing the care.  

I have quite a few lifelong friends up in Canada.  

They fill me in on the well omissioned BS posted here, from that Country.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2019 11:26:22 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I am sure the Democrats will fulfill their promises on healthcare.  Most or all of us Democrats want everyone to have access to good and affordable by the patient healthcare.  We may differ somewhat on the methodology, but it is a tenet of the current Democratic platform.

The Republicans?  They want everyone to be able to buy healthcare, on the open market.  That is, all facets of healthcare should be run as for profit businesses.  Many of them sincerely believe that this is the best way, and that the United States does this (free market) better than the rest of the world.

They are circumspect when it comes to the consequences of not being able to afford such medical services as one might need.  I know that some feel that if one cannot afford such services for them and their families they should do without, as they did not make adequate provision to prepare for such a "want".  I strongly suspect that most of them feel this way, but I know that some do, because they have said so.

Agreed.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 16, 2019 14:18:08 GMT -5 @x said:

Dec 16, 2019 13:47:43 GMT -5 justme said:

And have you sat and figured out WHY they're cheaper in Canada? Hint: It's not because of the free market.

No, it's called rationing the care.  

I have quite a few lifelong friends up in Canada.  

They fill me in on the well omissioned BS posted here, from that Country.

Lol! You don't think insurance companies in the USA ration the care?
Spare me. I worked in the medical field in the USA, and I KNOW they ration the care.

[weltschmerz]

Healthcare rationing in the United States exists in various forms. Access to private health insurance is rationed on price and ability to pay. Those unable to afford a health insurance policy are unable to acquire a private plan except by employer-provided and other job-attached coverage, and insurance companies sometimes pre-screen applicants for pre-existing medical conditions. Applicants with such conditions may be declined cover or pay higher premiums and/or have extra conditions imposed such as a waiting period.[1][2][3]



The poor are given access to Medicaid, which is restricted by income and asset limits by means-testing, and other federal and state eligibility regulations apply. Health maintenance organizations (HMOs), which are common among the rest of the population, restrict access to treatment by financial and clinical access limits.[4][page needed] Those 65 and older and a few others also qualify for Medicare, but it also has many restrictions.



In the media and in academia, some have advocated explicit healthcare rationing to limit the cost of Medicare and Medicaid. They argue that a proper rationing mechanism would be more equitable and cost-effective

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_rationing_in_the_United_States

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 16, 2019 13:23:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 16, 2019 13:11:53 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

It is currently illegal to buy prescriptions in Canada, with very limited exceptions.  

So, how do you plan to buy drugs from Canada?

Many of our drugs are OTC, that you need a prescription for in the US, like codeine and insulin.

I don't actually plan on buy prescriptions from Canada since I don't currently take any prescriptions.  I also have very good insurance so anytime I need a script, it has been covered for a reasonable amount.

I'm thinking of the people that actually have to take life-saving scripts on a monthly basis.  I'm thinking of how they jacked up the price of epipens to over $900 in a very short period of time.  I'm all for capitalism but even I draw the line.  

We can't tie up life-saving drugs with patents and then make them so expensive that people can't afford them.  This could have been part of the ACA and would have helped to reign in the costs of healthcare.  Instead, we got a punch of IRS hoops to jump through...

[justme]

Dec 16, 2019 14:18:08 GMT -5 @x said:

Dec 16, 2019 13:47:43 GMT -5 justme said:

And have you sat and figured out WHY they're cheaper in Canada? Hint: It's not because of the free market.

No, it's called rationing the care.  

I have quite a few lifelong friends up in Canada.  

They fill me in on the well omissioned BS posted here, from that Country.

Actually rationing the care has little to nothing to do with prescription prices in Canada. Which is what the discussion was about. 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 16, 2019 13:47:43 GMT -5 justme said:

Dec 16, 2019 12:49:45 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I'm a republican and I do not want big buckets o'money going anywhere.  I want to focus on cost reduction and that includes being able to have competitive pricing.  I want to be able to buy from the cheapest provider and in the case of prescriptions, that is Canada.  I want to have the cost of an MRI quoted to me when I make an appointment so I know the best deal.  

And have you sat and figured out WHY they're cheaper in Canada? Hint: It's not because of the free market.

 I'm not of the camp that life-saving medicine should be totally free market.  When the price of the EpiPen was suddenly increased to over $900 for zero reason, they lost me.  

I'm not for medicare/Medicaid for all because I have seen what happens to poor, rural hospitals whose main revenue is from the government programs.  It isn't enough to provide quality care.  I do not want rationing of care (though I am not against serious discussions about end of life care).  I do not want to have to wait months for tests that I now get in a couple of weeks.  I do not want to have the government tell me my surgery can wait because there is no money and it isn't life threatening, even though it is debilitating.  

I have fantastic insurance that provides me really good insurance. I had an appointment with the dermatologist the day I found my suspicious freckle and by the next week I was being treated at Fox Chase Cancer Center. Based on my conversation with my former Canadian employees, that would not have happened up there. And with Melanoma, time is of the essence.  

On the flip side, I completely agree that our current system is not sustainable.    As dem said, where we come to the cross-roads is in how to fix it.  I do not have faith in anything government run.  I see the incompetency of the government on a daily basis and shudder that a lot of you think that is the entity that should be in charge of running our healthcare.  Look at VA hopsitals as an example...no thank you.    

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 16, 2019 14:51:05 GMT -5 justme said:

Dec 16, 2019 14:18:08 GMT -5 @x said:

No, it's called rationing the care.  

I have quite a few lifelong friends up in Canada.  

They fill me in on the well omissioned BS posted here, from that Country.

Actually rationing the care has little to nothing to do with prescription prices in Canada. Which is what the discussion was about. 

It's because Canada negotiates the prices and we don't.  Much like when Medicaid/medicare set their prices, the rest of us have to pick up the slack.  The pharmaceutical companies have profit targets and we end up paying for them.

I want a law that says that no US citizen will pay more for a prescription than a citizen of any other country.  And ban advertising.  I don't need to know each new drug that comes out and it's side-effects.  

[sesfw]

Lol! You don't think insurance companies in the USA ration the care?

Spare me. I worked in the medical field in the USA, and I KNOW they ration the care.



Aren't you glad you don't live in this terrible country any more?

[justme]

Dec 16, 2019 15:08:37 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 16, 2019 14:51:05 GMT -5 justme said:

Actually rationing the care has little to nothing to do with prescription prices in Canada. Which is what the discussion was about. 

It's because Canada negotiates the prices and we don't.  Much like when Medicaid/medicare set their prices, the rest of us have to pick up the slack.  The pharmaceutical companies have profit targets and we end up paying for them.

I want a law that says that no US citizen will pay more for a prescription than a citizen of any other country.  And ban advertising.  I don't need to know each new drug that comes out and it's side-effects.  

Less negotiating and more price controls. They've also dumped a lot of meds into the realm of OTC that is still RX in the US - though I'm not sure if that's due to the insurance companies wanting the copays (the ones I know are cheaper OTC in Canada than my copays for it in the states) or if the FDA is the one holding it up. 

Canada's prescriptions actually aren't under the national healthcare system umbrella. Its separate coverage that usually comes via your employer, though I'm sure there's other options too. The government does set overall limits on prices - though I'm not sure on specifics of that. 

[NastyWoman]

Dec 16, 2019 15:08:37 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 16, 2019 14:51:05 GMT -5 justme said:

Actually rationing the care has little to nothing to do with prescription prices in Canada. Which is what the discussion was about. 

It's because Canada negotiates the prices and we don't.  Much like when Medicaid/medicare set their prices, the rest of us have to pick up the slack.  The pharmaceutical companies have profit targets and we end up paying for them.

I want a law that says that no US citizen will pay more for a prescription than a citizen of any other country.  And ban advertising.  I don't need to know each new drug that comes out and it's side-effects.  

I believe that we actually have a law that prohibits the US government to negotiate drug prices with the manufacturers...

[mollyc]

OECD.org/health/Value in Pharmaceutical Pricing-Canada

The information below is from Page 4 of the above document.

"8.  The PMPRB has the mandate to protect Canadian consumers by ensuring that the prices of

patented drugs sold in Canada are not “excessive”. In making this judgement the Board compares the

proposed Canadian price either to prices of existing drugs in Canada, or to prices in seven markets

designated in the regulations: France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the

United States. These countries were selected in 1987 as ones that had or aspired to have a strong national

presence of the pharmaceutical industry.


9. Price increases are limited to changes in the Consumer Price Index (CPI).
  In addition, the price

of a patented drug may, at no time, exceed the highest price of the same drug in the seven foreign

countries.


10. The PMPRB operates as an independent, quasi-judicial body, empowered to enforce sanctions

and impose price reductions for patented pharmaceutical products. The Board consists of no more than five

members, appointed by the governor-in-council, including a chairperson and a vice-chairperson. The

chairperson is designated under the Patent Act as the Chief Executive Officer of the PMPRB with the

authority and responsibility to supervise and direct its work. At present, there are four appointed Board

members, who operate on a part time basis.
"

Page 7 shows the criteria for a Price being considered excessive based on the level of improvement over what is already on the market.

One of the problems for pharmacies if the USA lowers its prices is that it can not only effect the level of profit in the USA but also the level of profit in other OECD countries.

[thyme4change]

My solution....make collective bargaining mandatory for every position (employee, contract, free lance, etc) that earns less than 150k per year. Every company, every person. Then, the working poor who currently get no benefits will be taken care of by corporations instead of the government. Corporations will push so fucking hard on insurance and providers to bring costs down. The government will be left with old and disabled people, as they have been forever.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 16, 2019 15:08:37 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 16, 2019 14:51:05 GMT -5 justme said:

Actually rationing the care has little to nothing to do with prescription prices in Canada. Which is what the discussion was about. 

It's because Canada negotiates the prices and we don't.  Much like when Medicaid/medicare set their prices, the rest of us have to pick up the slack.  The pharmaceutical companies have profit targets and we end up paying for them.

I want a law that says that no US citizen will pay more for a prescription than a citizen of any other country.  And ban advertising.  I don't need to know each new drug that comes out and it's side-effects.  

it is because of a lot of reasons, from the education of medical professionals, to the standards for facilities, to limitations on costs. all of the things Canada does, we should do.

but we won't. because we have 40% of the public arguing that ours is the best system. which is .... f*&king stupid is the only phrase that comes to me.

PS- there are only two countries that do NOT ban advertising on drugs.  the other one is New Zealand.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 16, 2019 15:26:49 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Lol! You don't think insurance companies in the USA ration the care?

Spare me. I worked in the medical field in the USA, and I KNOW they ration the care.



Aren't you glad you don't live in this terrible country any more?

it's not terrible here. and it is not great there.

however, we have the costliest healthcare in the world by a factor of 2x.

to dismiss a critique of that as "hating America" is, at a minimum, jingoistic.

[dondub]