ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Oct 19, 2019 17:42:22 GMT -5
It is far more likely that a gun owner will shoot a loved one or themselves than shooting an intruder. Is there any data that supports that
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 19, 2019 19:35:47 GMT -5
It is far more likely that a gun owner will shoot a loved one or themselves than shooting an intruder. Is there any data that supports that yes
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 19, 2019 19:46:08 GMT -5
It is far more likely that a gun owner will shoot a loved one or themselves than shooting an intruder. Is there any data that supports that Yes. Plenty of data on the previous page. Do try to keep up.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 19, 2019 23:00:03 GMT -5
You are kidding ,this is nothing but some anti gunner's opinion.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 19, 2019 23:06:12 GMT -5
Ok we have two so call studies that are linked to suicides, the other used data from the Brady group.
Oh boy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 20, 2019 10:32:48 GMT -5
Ok we have two so call studies that are linked to suicides, the other used data from the Brady group.
Oh boy.
You bitched at us last month because we never talk about the real victims of guns, which are primarily domestic violence and suicides, which I reminded you that I bring up on every thread about gun violence, and then you changed your tune that they don't matter because they would kill themselves anyway, which is patently false, but whatever, it is your belief and you won't let it go. So, for anyone else in this thread that may be on the fence...the number of people who successfully protect their family from a violent attack in their homes is smaller than the number of accidental shootings, suicides and domestic violence shootings that occur. If you doubt that, do your own research, so you can have an intelligent conversation about the issue. If you are already 100% sure that is wrong, prove it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 20, 2019 11:11:07 GMT -5
Ok we have two so call studies that are linked to suicides, the other used data from the Brady group.
Oh boy.
Instead of just offering an "Oh boy" to thyme4change's study links, do what she says: do your own research and post it here. Just saying "Oh boy" doesn't mean the provided links and studies are not true. And make sure thyme4change and others don't have the chance of replying to your study, "Oh boy". Provide non-partisan links of studies.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Oct 20, 2019 12:11:00 GMT -5
Like that’s going to happen.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 20, 2019 16:45:19 GMT -5
I read all about the backfire effect when presenting facts to others. It doesn't work. People just dig in.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 20, 2019 19:42:32 GMT -5
Doctor Cassandra Crifasi acknowledged that the very best intervention (policy) won’t stop someone who is committed to hurting themselves or other people.
None of the gun control policies championed by Everytown or any other gun control group actually target the violent criminals responsible for gun violence
Doctor Alex McCourt lectures on so-called “assault weapons” and admits that they are rarely used in crime. This unfortunately starts off a common theme this week: blaming a policy’s lack of impact on some fact other than the easy truth that criminals don’t follow gun laws.
Except we know where criminals get their guns, and it isn’t through private sales.
This week’s module is titled “Evidence-Based Policies to Prevent Gun Violence” but the threshold for what qualifies as “evidence-based” is subjective. As in, the Bloomberg team selects what qualifies as evidence and what should just be done even in the absence of evidence.
they admit that the evidence on the impact of background checks for private sales on gun homicides “has not found protective effects” and that “[t]he evidence of the impact on waiting periods on firearm homicide is inconclusive.”
The Rand Corporation included much of this same research in their review of gun-policy research, “The Science of Gun Policy,” and deemed licensing and permitting requirements to have an uncertain effect on both total homicides and firearm homicides because the evidence is inconclusive.
Unsurprisingly, research conducted by the Center for Gun Policy and Research and UC Davis that found violent misdemeanor prohibitions and universal background checks have no effect was again excluded despite the authors claiming “very good evidence” supporting such prohibitions.
The Bloomberg Professor of American Health at the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins University, Daniel Webster, First, we like to give credit where credit is due. Webster acknowledges and then further emphasizes “a very important principle here is that gun owners who purchase a firearm legally, generally are even more law-abiding than your average person.” Webster criticizes a Gary Kleck study that estimated about 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year
For the record, the estimate of the number of defensive gun uses from one of these surveys is around 116,000 per year. Webster says this is a “much, much smaller fraction of an estimated number of times in which civilians are using guns in self-defense.” That may be “much, much smaller” than Kleck’s estimate but 116,000 Americans using a firearm to defend themselves is pretty significant.
Kleck’s work analyzing long-hidden CDC data on defensive gun use. Kleck’s analysis found that the number of defensive gun uses per year ranged from 620,648 to 1.9 million over the years the CDC collected data in some states. Notably, none of Kleck’s work is included in the reference list.
What does “gun violence” really look like? CDC non-fatal injury data is not reliable, but fatality statistics are accurate. The most recent data available is for 2017; there were 39,772 total firearms-related fatalities. Sixty percent were suicides. Thirty-seven percent were homicides, which is a rate of 4.5 fatalities per 100,000 people. The rate held steady between 2016 and 2017, but it has increased slightly since the start of the decade. However, the 2017 rate is 34% lower than it was in 1980 and 36% lower than in 1993. In other words, the firearms-related homicide rate dropped by 36% in the last 25 years for which we have data. Rates don’t tell the whole story; the total population grew by more than 99 million people from 1980 to 2017 and the number of firearms-related homicides decreased by 958.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 20, 2019 19:48:52 GMT -5
Those are all links from the NRA. They're not at all biased.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 20, 2019 19:59:39 GMT -5
Due to the insidious nature of this messaging approach, the NRA has successfully embedded its false narrative throughout much of the country. By deploying a carefully crafted campaign of misinformation, deception, and confusion, the NRA has both undermined legitimate arguments for common-sense gun law reform and made it substantially more difficult for its emotive, provocative propaganda to be countered with fact and reason. In this way, the NRA’s tactics are deceitful not only because they falsely allege to protect American freedoms but also because they mirror fundamentally un-American sources. www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2019/04/24/468951/guns-lies-fear/
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 20, 2019 20:15:52 GMT -5
Doctor Cassandra Crifasi acknowledged that the very best intervention (policy) won’t stop someone who is committed to hurting themselves or other people.
None of the gun control policies championed by Everytown or any other gun control group actually target the violent criminals responsible for gun violence
Doctor Alex McCourt lectures on so-called “assault weapons” and admits that they are rarely used in crime. This unfortunately starts off a common theme this week: blaming a policy’s lack of impact on some fact other than the easy truth that criminals don’t follow gun laws.
Except we know where criminals get their guns, and it isn’t through private sales.
This week’s module is titled “Evidence-Based Policies to Prevent Gun Violence” but the threshold for what qualifies as “evidence-based” is subjective. As in, the Bloomberg team selects what qualifies as evidence and what should just be done even in the absence of evidence.
they admit that the evidence on the impact of background checks for private sales on gun homicides “has not found protective effects” and that “[t]he evidence of the impact on waiting periods on firearm homicide is inconclusive.”
The Rand Corporation included much of this same research in their review of gun-policy research, “The Science of Gun Policy,” and deemed licensing and permitting requirements to have an uncertain effect on both total homicides and firearm homicides because the evidence is inconclusive.
Unsurprisingly, research conducted by the Center for Gun Policy and Research and UC Davis that found violent misdemeanor prohibitions and universal background checks have no effect was again excluded despite the authors claiming “very good evidence” supporting such prohibitions.
The Bloomberg Professor of American Health at the Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins University, Daniel Webster, First, we like to give credit where credit is due. Webster acknowledges and then further emphasizes “a very important principle here is that gun owners who purchase a firearm legally, generally are even more law-abiding than your average person.” Webster criticizes a Gary Kleck study that estimated about 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year
For the record, the estimate of the number of defensive gun uses from one of these surveys is around 116,000 per year. Webster says this is a “much, much smaller fraction of an estimated number of times in which civilians are using guns in self-defense.” That may be “much, much smaller” than Kleck’s estimate but 116,000 Americans using a firearm to defend themselves is pretty significant.
Kleck’s work analyzing long-hidden CDC data on defensive gun use. Kleck’s analysis found that the number of defensive gun uses per year ranged from 620,648 to 1.9 million over the years the CDC collected data in some states. Notably, none of Kleck’s work is included in the reference list.
What does “gun violence” really look like? CDC non-fatal injury data is not reliable, but fatality statistics are accurate. The most recent data available is for 2017; there were 39,772 total firearms-related fatalities. Sixty percent were suicides. Thirty-seven percent were homicides, which is a rate of 4.5 fatalities per 100,000 people. The rate held steady between 2016 and 2017, but it has increased slightly since the start of the decade. However, the 2017 rate is 34% lower than it was in 1980 and 36% lower than in 1993. In other words, the firearms-related homicide rate dropped by 36% in the last 25 years for which we have data. Rates don’t tell the whole story; the total population grew by more than 99 million people from 1980 to 2017 and the number of firearms-related homicides decreased by 958.
"Oh boy" Partisan links. You were asked for non-partisan links if you wished to prevent an "Oh boy".
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 20, 2019 20:30:52 GMT -5
"Oh boy" Partisan links.
You were asked for non-partisan links if you wished to prevent an "Oh boy".
Oh boy! He whined about "anti-gunner" links, then posted a series of links from the NRA. That's as rabidly pro-gunner as it gets.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 20, 2019 22:04:31 GMT -5
Did you bother to read any of it??
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dondub
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The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on Oct 20, 2019 22:12:12 GMT -5
I read the 2nd amendment where it calls for a well-regulated militia. Why are you being so unconstitutional OC?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 12:34:52 GMT -5
Ok we have two so call studies that are linked to suicides, the other used data from the Brady group.
Oh boy.
You bitched at us last month because we never talk about the real victims of guns, which are primarily domestic violence and suicides, which I reminded you that I bring up on every thread about gun violence, and then you changed your tune that they don't matter because they would kill themselves anyway, which is patently false, but whatever, it is your belief and you won't let it go. So, for anyone else in this thread that may be on the fence...the number of people who successfully protect their family from a violent attack in their homes is smaller than the number of accidental shootings, suicides and domestic violence shootings that occur. If you doubt that, do your own research, so you can have an intelligent conversation about the issue. If you are already 100% sure that is wrong, prove it. A person that wants to kill themselves, is not a victim. (bolded) victim noun vic·tim | \ ˈvik-təm Definition of victim 1 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent the schools are victims of the social system : such as a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions a victim of cancer a victim of the auto crash a murder victim (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment a frequent victim of political attacks b : one that is tricked or duped a con man's victim 2 : a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victim
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 27, 2019 11:25:48 GMT -5
actually, he is a victim, by some standards. that is why I prefer the term "consensual" -vs- "non-consensual" when we are talking about crimes. suicide is considered a crime. but if you want to decriminalize it, that is fine with me. I am in favor of decriminalizing all crimes when the only victim is ones self. that would include all drug use crimes.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Oct 27, 2019 17:26:51 GMT -5
👡🎃
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 27, 2019 20:22:11 GMT -5
Ok, so we have 19M concealed carry permits. The US population is 330M. That means that 5.8% of the population is packing. I would think it was higher. It is.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 28, 2019 7:14:06 GMT -5
Ok, so we have 19M concealed carry permits. The US population is 330M. That means that 5.8% of the population is packing. I would think it was higher. It is. You know this how? Please provide a link to an unbiased source that will confirm your claim. You saying it doesn't make it so.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Oct 28, 2019 11:08:07 GMT -5
You know this how? Please provide a link to an unbiased source that will confirm your claim. You saying it doesn't make it so. It doesn’t? 🤪
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 28, 2019 22:39:12 GMT -5
You know this how? Please provide a link to an unbiased source that will confirm your claim. You saying it doesn't make it so. he's just saying it to irritate/frighten you and others.
I am not irritated or frightened. are you?
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 29, 2019 7:23:15 GMT -5
You know this how? Please provide a link to an unbiased source that will confirm your claim. You saying it doesn't make it so. he's just saying it to irritate/frighten you and others.
I am not irritated or frightened. are you?
Not a bit of it! However, I'm not the only one reading it. If you're going to make a claim like that you need to back it up.
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