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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 11:57:33 GMT -5
We have open carry in Ga. and you have to have some pretty strict reasons for a CC carry here now. I used to have a CC before they passed the open carry law. Arkansas now has open carry. Good chance I won't be renewing my CC license that I've had for about 20 years. Why pay the fee ?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 17, 2019 12:14:36 GMT -5
which is why I support the government issuing the permits to those who met the criteria for one. I think it would be wonderful to have a similar system for ownership of guns in general as well. I'm for similar restrictions for those who speak on public venues. In regards to permits and meeting criteria. Interesting. What criteria would you support them having to meet to gain a permit?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 17, 2019 15:05:45 GMT -5
If they can't follow procedure, then they are in the wrong & that woman was only protecting herself & her relatives. That office should never have fired. He didn't announce himself & why the hell was he going around the outside of the house on a wellness check? It was murder! I'm going to disagree with you about when an officer should and shouldn't fire. if someone is pointing a gun at me I am firing, whether I followed protocol or not. I will agree that the entire situation was caused by officers not following protocol. I can't pretend to know what protocol is when you get a call of suspicious activity and arrive to find the front door open...but at a minimum I would think that would require an officer to yell "police". My initial reply that you quoted was to point out that the woman did point a gun at the officers so it was more than "playing video games with her nephew" as was stated. When guns get pointed, people get shot and I say that as someone that believes in the castle doctrine and believe this woman had every right to protect herself. She had no way of knowing that the people in her backyard were cops or that the cops were called for a safety check. The cops didn't announce themselves but were drawn up and fired. Since this woman was in her own home, in her own bedroom, and confronted by an unknown person in the middle of the night it would only would make sense that she pointed her gun at an intruder (the officer had not identified himself as a police officer). Yet you defend this shooting and in doing so you made the best ANTI gun ownership statement you could ever make!
Having a gun to protect herself is what got her killed
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 17, 2019 15:48:57 GMT -5
...Having a gun to protect herself is what got her killed No way of knowing that he won't have shoot her anyway.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 17, 2019 15:56:00 GMT -5
It is far more likely that a gun owner will shoot a loved one or themselves than shooting an intruder.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 17, 2019 16:53:18 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree with you about when an officer should and shouldn't fire. if someone is pointing a gun at me I am firing, whether I followed protocol or not. I will agree that the entire situation was caused by officers not following protocol. I can't pretend to know what protocol is when you get a call of suspicious activity and arrive to find the front door open...but at a minimum I would think that would require an officer to yell "police". My initial reply that you quoted was to point out that the woman did point a gun at the officers so it was more than "playing video games with her nephew" as was stated. When guns get pointed, people get shot and I say that as someone that believes in the castle doctrine and believe this woman had every right to protect herself. She had no way of knowing that the people in her backyard were cops or that the cops were called for a safety check. The cops didn't announce themselves but were drawn up and fired. Since this woman was in her own home, in her own bedroom, and confronted by an unknown person in the middle of the night it would only would make sense that she pointed her gun at an intruder (the officer had not identified himself as a police officer). Yet you defend this shooting and in doing so you made the best ANTI gun ownership statement you could ever make!
Having a gun to protect herself is what got her killed
I’m know it was having a gun that got her killed. That doesn’t mean that we should ban guns. It means you accept the risk when you have a gun. And the woman had every right to point her weapon as she was in her own home. So I’m not saying she is wrong at all. But the cop saw a pointed gun and also defended himself.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 17, 2019 17:32:15 GMT -5
... But the cop saw a pointed gun and also defended himself. I struggle with the idea that this was a "kill or be killed" moment. A quick move by the police officer and he would have been out of the line of fire.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 17, 2019 18:27:34 GMT -5
... But the cop saw a pointed gun and also defended himself. I struggle with the idea that this was a "kill or be killed" moment. A quick move by the police officer and he would have been out of the line of fire. Or he could have been shot as he turned. It is hard for me to judge either of their actions at that moment. She felt threatened and drew a gun. He felt threatened when he saw a gun drawn on him. It is tragic to me and avoidable. But I will not call it murder, as others in this thread have.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 17, 2019 18:29:36 GMT -5
I struggle with the idea that this was a "kill or be killed" moment. A quick move by the police officer and he would have been out of the line of fire. Or he could have been shot as he turned. It is hard for me to judge either of their actions at that moment. She felt threatened and drew a gun. He felt threatened when he saw a gun drawn on him. It is tragic to me and avoidable. But I will not call it murder, as others in this thread have. Not turn, move parallel to the side of the house.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 17, 2019 20:14:31 GMT -5
Clearly, the police officer fucked up.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Oct 17, 2019 23:14:48 GMT -5
In Seattle there are legal provisions that would allow that cop to skate.
One that easily comes to mind is the Indigenous wood carver with hearing loss and an alcohol problem in a crosswalk carrying his carving knife and a piece of wood. The cop gets out of his car and yells at him to stop. Couldn’t hear the cop so he took 5 shots from side/behind and met the Great Spirit. No charges COULD be filed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:37:47 GMT -5
I'm for similar restrictions for those who speak on public venues. In regards to permits and meeting criteria. Interesting. What criteria would you support them having to meet to gain a permit? Similar to what would be required for CC and owning a gun, as you suggested. The pen (voice) is mightier than the sword.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Oct 18, 2019 10:46:01 GMT -5
Here in Ga. we get fingerprinted and a background check is run thru local, state & FBI just to get a gun license.
To get a CC carry permit now, there has to be a reason...a very good reason...like carrying large cash deposits to the bank, carrying other valuables or escorting persons who are doing the transporting. Certain jobs will also allow CC, such as body guards.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 11:10:39 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree with you about when an officer should and shouldn't fire. if someone is pointing a gun at me I am firing, whether I followed protocol or not. I will agree that the entire situation was caused by officers not following protocol. I can't pretend to know what protocol is when you get a call of suspicious activity and arrive to find the front door open...but at a minimum I would think that would require an officer to yell "police". My initial reply that you quoted was to point out that the woman did point a gun at the officers so it was more than "playing video games with her nephew" as was stated. When guns get pointed, people get shot and I say that as someone that believes in the castle doctrine and believe this woman had every right to protect herself. She had no way of knowing that the people in her backyard were cops or that the cops were called for a safety check. The cops didn't announce themselves but were drawn up and fired. Since this woman was in her own home, in her own bedroom, and confronted by an unknown person in the middle of the night it would only would make sense that she pointed her gun at an intruder (the officer had not identified himself as a police officer). Yet you defend this shooting and in doing so you made the best ANTI gun ownership statement you could ever make!
Having a gun to protect herself is what got her killed
Not immediately pulling the trigger upon pointing the weapon is what got her killed. If you don't intend to use it, don't let it be seen. Miss Tequila made a lack of training observation, not an anti gun statement. You've been called on this premise bullshit before.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 18, 2019 11:56:03 GMT -5
Interesting. What criteria would you support them having to meet to gain a permit? Similar to what would be required for CC and owning a gun, as you suggested. The pen (voice) is mightier than the sword. yeah
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 18, 2019 12:42:22 GMT -5
Since this woman was in her own home, in her own bedroom, and confronted by an unknown person in the middle of the night it would only would make sense that she pointed her gun at an intruder (the officer had not identified himself as a police officer). Yet you defend this shooting and in doing so you made the best ANTI gun ownership statement you could ever make!
Having a gun to protect herself is what got her killed
Not immediately pulling the trigger upon pointing the weapon is what got her killed. If you don't intend to use it, don't let it be seen. Miss Tequila made a lack of training observation, not an anti gun statement. You've been called on this premise bullshit before. If she killed the cop, she surely would be spending the rest of her life in prison. No one would believe her that he didn't announce himself, because he was a good cop that surely followed procedure. It would be branded a cold blooded assault on our good officers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 12:47:34 GMT -5
Not immediately pulling the trigger upon pointing the weapon is what got her killed. If you don't intend to use it, don't let it be seen. Miss Tequila made a lack of training observation, not an anti gun statement. You've been called on this premise bullshit before. If she killed the cop, she surely would be spending the rest of her life in prison. No one would believe her that he didn't announce himself, because he was a good cop that surely followed procedure. It would be branded a cold blooded assault on our good officers. So true.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 18, 2019 16:17:04 GMT -5
Clearly, the police officer fucked up. Absolutely. He should have identified himself. I don’t think that equates to murder, though.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 18, 2019 20:30:37 GMT -5
It is far more likely that a gun owner will shoot a loved one or themselves than shooting an intruder. Where do you get that?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 18, 2019 20:36:55 GMT -5
I struggle with the idea that this was a "kill or be killed" moment. A quick move by the police officer and he would have been out of the line of fire. Or he could have been shot as he turned. It is hard for me to judge either of their actions at that moment. She felt threatened and drew a gun. He felt threatened when he saw a gun drawn on him. It is tragic to me and avoidable. But I will not call it murder, as others in this thread have. Miss T, I am calling it murder, He was outside in the dark, she was inside in the light. He could see her well.
Try looking out a window at night with lights on inside, none outside, what can you see?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 18, 2019 20:54:18 GMT -5
Or he could have been shot as he turned. It is hard for me to judge either of their actions at that moment. She felt threatened and drew a gun. He felt threatened when he saw a gun drawn on him. It is tragic to me and avoidable. But I will not call it murder, as others in this thread have. Miss T, I am calling it murder, He was outside in the dark, she was inside in the light. He could see her well.
Try looking out a window at night with lights on inside, none outside, what can you see?
I think the issue is that he could see her clearly. He saw her pointing a gun at him. He was completely in the wrong for breaking protocol but if someone is pointing at me, I’m firing first
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 18, 2019 20:55:40 GMT -5
More than likely she could not see him!
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Oct 18, 2019 21:30:36 GMT -5
For once...I agree with OC....murder!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 18, 2019 21:50:48 GMT -5
For once...I agree with OC....murder! HOLY COW!!!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 19, 2019 10:59:07 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 19, 2019 13:07:31 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 19, 2019 13:19:52 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 19, 2019 13:21:11 GMT -5
Miss T, I am calling it murder, He was outside in the dark, she was inside in the light. He could see her well.
Try looking out a window at night with lights on inside, none outside, what can you see?
I think the issue is that he could see her clearly. He saw her pointing a gun at him. He was completely in the wrong for breaking protocol but if someone is pointing at me, I’m firing first Protocol is there for a reason. Has he given a reason why he didn't follow procedure? If nothing else, he shouldn't be a police officer anymore. I know people who were fired because they didn't follow the company's procedures and the company lost a few bucks. To me, this is far more serious. He should (at least) be made an example of why you follow the rules. People's lives are at stake.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 19, 2019 13:23:28 GMT -5
I think the issue is that he could see her clearly. He saw her pointing a gun at him. He was completely in the wrong for breaking protocol but if someone is pointing at me, I’m firing first Protocol is there for a reason. Has he given a reason why he didn't follow procedure? If nothing else, he shouldn't be a police officer anymore. I know people who were fired because they didn't follow the company's procedures and the company lost a few bucks. To me, this is far more serious. He should (at least) be made an example of why you follow the rules. People's lives are at stake. I’m not disagreeing with you and I will take it a step further. While I don’t think what he did meets the definition of murder, his lack of following protocol did start the chain of events that caused her death. Not only should he not ever be a police officer again, he should forfeit his right to ever own a gun.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 19, 2019 13:25:47 GMT -5
Thanks. I'm too lazy to spend a lot of effort, as OC won't believe statistics. He knows 5 people that support his world view, and he can't show a sliver of sunlight between what he wants and what is true in the world. I would be more respectful if he just said "Guns are cool. I want to keep mine, even though they are problematic." Instead of pretending there are valid reasons to have a real conversation to try and minimize the damaging parts of gun ownership.
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